phono stage vs. budget preamp
- Thread starter ryson2
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Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
That's hard to say. My opinion, and only my opinion, is that the phono stage is not something you should skimp on. So if you can only afford $100 or less, I'd either stick with the phono inputs of your receiver, or perhaps get one of those Hagerman Bugle phono preamp kits that everyone raves about, if you can solder.
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Around a hundred bucks can buy you a pretty good phono stage. There are the NAD PP2, Pro-Ject Phono Box, Cambridge Audio P540 and the Rega Fono Mini just to name a few. Order of preference = Rega, Cambridge, Pro-Ject and NAD. They all are very good for the dough. The Rega is a bit over $100 at around $140 but can be had for less.
I'd consider sticking with the Marantz.
The phono stage on my Sansui QRX 7500 bettered a Creek OBH 8, and trounced an NAD phono stage. I don't know what the quality difference could be between our amps, but don't short change the 70's stuff, they continually amaze me with the quality of the better stuff.
The phono stage on my Sansui QRX 7500 bettered a Creek OBH 8, and trounced an NAD phono stage. I don't know what the quality difference could be between our amps, but don't short change the 70's stuff, they continually amaze me with the quality of the better stuff.
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
My personal experience differs from yours. I have yet to find a 70's receiver with as good a phono stage as my Rega Mira 3 (which has the Rega Fono Mini). I've had some decent phono stages on a receiver and certainly seen more flexibility from them...however my $90 Cambridge is quieter than any one I've heard in a receiver. That's just my experience...others may vary.
thunderroad
Life begins at 140 mph.
I'm inclinded to go with the phono stage in the Marantz, provided it's in good condition. If it's a '70s vintage Marantz, those were pretty high quality in their day and considering that vinyl was the main high-quality source at the time, I think Marantz would have placed a pretty high priority on the sound quality of the phono stage. To me, that would make it a pretty safe choice. Of course you'll probably be limited to a MM cartridge or maybe a high-output MC, but personally I'd be ok with that. The only area where the Marantz might giveup a little to newer gear is in its noise floor. I would expect its no-signal white-noise floor to be slightly higher than newer gear, but I think the richness and quality of the sound would more than compensate for that. Besides, if you don't like it you can always add an outboard phono stage at a later date, but I'd expect to spend more than a $100 to beat it! Happy listening! 
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
This might seem like backtracking a bit on what I said before, but I want to point out that I agree with Art about dedicated independent phono preamps being superior. I don't believe in using phono inputs on receivers. My advice should have been stick with what you have for now and perhaps save up for a good phono preamp. But Art's right, there are decent phono preamps in that price range.
bebopdeluxe
Well-Known Member
I initially purchased a Sansui AU-919 (which EchoWars subsequently did a primo rebuild on) because of the quality of its phono stage...at the time, my combo was a Manley Stingray and Neumann Black Cube SE...but the Manley just wasn't a good match for my Ohm Walsh speakers...and I figured that i would just get a solid vintage amp with a quality phono stage...
After living with it for a while, I was really missing the quality of the Black Cube, so just for grins, I picked up a Cambridge 640P...and I think that it really is a step up from the Sansui's phono stage...for minimal $$$...
Just my 2c....
After living with it for a while, I was really missing the quality of the Black Cube, so just for grins, I picked up a Cambridge 640P...and I think that it really is a step up from the Sansui's phono stage...for minimal $$$...
Just my 2c....
The phono preamp is one of the most dificult to make. because of the feedback, and eq curve, there is a fine line between preamp, and oscillator. new cheap units use a cheap power supply, and an op amp. a phono amp with discrete components and a good power supply is best. I choose the marantz. my vintage kenwood has an FET phono stage with a +,-, 40 volt supply. also, the marantz probably uses 1, or 2% resistors, and better capacitors. the best preamps run thousands of dollars. i recommend looking at the construction, schematics, so on. then decide.
I bought a used outboard pre just to get my feet wet. It's only a $200 rotel but it easily bests any and all of my built in phono stages.
ChairSpud
Super Member
The only under $100 phono preamp that would better your marantz is the Hagerman Bugle that Mr. Lin mentioned. The Bugle is often compared to $400 and more phono preamps. The Bugle can also be bought fully assembled. I use a Bugle with two PC1270 sealed AGM batteries that last more than a month before recharging.
dogscanskate
Super Member
What's the point??? If you're gonna use a cart that is under 100$, use the phono section of your receiver, the difference isn,t gonna be worth 100$, very negligible in my opinion.
On the other hand, I'd rather have a Dynavector 10X5/receiver phono combo than a Shure MX 97e/dedicated phono pre.
That's just me, I'd rather have a better cartridge than a better phono preamp. After you have upgraded to a high performance cart, go for the dedicated phono. Then it's a worthwhile move.
On the other hand, I'd rather have a Dynavector 10X5/receiver phono combo than a Shure MX 97e/dedicated phono pre.
That's just me, I'd rather have a better cartridge than a better phono preamp. After you have upgraded to a high performance cart, go for the dedicated phono. Then it's a worthwhile move.
Strawman
Addicted Member
I'm just an occasional LP listener. I've found low dough upgrades can and will improve the sound. Recently I've switched from a Pioneer integrated amps phono section with an M-97Xe to an Adcom GFP-565 which is supposed to have a pretty good phono section.Then, I added a Hagerman Bugle and V-15.
Much more listenable. :thmbsp:
Much more listenable. :thmbsp:
ChairSpud
Super Member
Ryson2, what cartridge are you using or planning to use?
Nice setup Strawman, am also using the GFP-565, Bugle combo although lately am testing the Cambridge 640P.
Art K, I was not even aware of the Rega Fono Mini until you mentioned it. Can you describe how it sounds and how do you think it might compare to the 640P?
Nice setup Strawman, am also using the GFP-565, Bugle combo although lately am testing the Cambridge 640P.
Art K, I was not even aware of the Rega Fono Mini until you mentioned it. Can you describe how it sounds and how do you think it might compare to the 640P?
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
Awesome avatar! I was just listening to that the other day.
Back on topic: Phono preamp is so important, you really should save up for a while and get a great one, it'll make all the difference in the world. My Wright 200C tube phono preamp was the most dramatic upgrade I've ever made to my system.
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Matching the performance of the cartridge and phono stage is the plan I would hope. My Music hall Tracker clearly shows the difference between my Cambridge 540P, the Rega Fono Mini and my receivers phono stage...if a $70 cartridge can show the benefits then imagine what a 10x5 would do...I can I had one.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
I listening to a record with one right now!
