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Pioneer SP-BS22-LR, the real deal or hype?

pieinear said:
bought 2 pair awhile back and really liked them, But after listening to them now for a fair amount of time i'm gunna hafta say that they are excellent 60$ a pair speaker. go much higher than that and the value is not so much. really lacking in the high dept. a good speaker to buy (at $60pr. tops) to test against, if you think your present speakers can't hold their own. of my two pair i'll keep one set and give the other to the daughter. a month ago i was only going to loan them to her.

ps i know that these are really intended for rear speakers so perhaps i'm being to picky.
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Although it seems we are in the minority, I agree with you. They sound OK at first, even impressive because after all what do you really expect for $129? It's when you really listen and compare that you realize they sound about right for the price-point. I paid $59 for mine and returned them after a week of careful auditioning.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=611171
 
Vintagear said:
Although it seems we are in the minority, I agree with you. They sound OK at first, even impressive because after all what do you really expect for $129? It's when you really listen and compare that you realize they sound about right for the price-point. I paid $59 for mine and returned them after a week of careful auditioning.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=611171
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Here are the prices (and admittedly, the Bowers and Wilkins can go for more) of that shootout.

B&w 359.95
Polk Rti $250
22's $129 if on sale $59

Vintagear, I applaud your excellent thread on this, but again, even this shootout is more David vs Goliath. Admittedly, you have stated at this price point, these are excellent. Well.....yeah. Isn't that what we're all saying?

And with mods, I wonder what they are capable of (dennis murphy, I think is who does them)

Again, thanks for an excellent writeup. Those interested in these speakers should read the linked thread Vintagear started.
 
Poultrygeist said:
Would love to read someone else's comparison between these and the new Dayton B652 Air's with the AMT tweets. I have them both as well as an opinion.
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I am also very curious about this. I am an AMT lover for sure - I own 3 sets of ESS AMT speakers - and I have seriously thought about getting a set of the Daytons to compare them. Based on the few comparisons I have read so far, the Pioneer gets the nod, but as surrounds in a HT setup, especially since my other 5 speakers are ESS, I am thinking those might be a better match than the BIC Acoustechs I have there now.

There is also the nearfield use case, where the Daytons don't seem to do as well, at least according to the noaudiophile review. The Pioneers are Great for nearfield use, especially since they go so low, and tweeter at ear level seems to alleviate the weak high end complaints I see around here. I oriented the bookshelfs (in my case upside down) to make sure that the tweeters stay ear level, and I don't find them wanting for high end at all.

I look forward to your thoughts!

IBJamon
 
Vintagear said:
Although it seems we are in the minority, I agree with you. They sound OK at first, even impressive because after all what do you really expect for $129? It's when you really listen and compare that you realize they sound about right for the price-point. I paid $59 for mine and returned them after a week of careful auditioning.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=611171
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I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one. I liked the bass, but the treble just didn't quite do it for me. I'd run it with a pair of Boston Acoustic Bravo on-wall speakers to get a more 'live' sound. Eventually I replaced them with a pair of BA CR67's 5.25 inch woofer bookshelves. They're somewhat bright compared to the Pioneers which I guess is more to my taste and are supplemented by Yamaha 8 inch sub which was also used with the Pioneers. The Pioneer's are currently in storage, but will be used as rears in a home theater system.

A couple of things to note. Dennis Murphy was impressed by the speaker, but felt that the high end was not quite as good as the rest of the output. He thought he could tweak the crossover to improve the treble, but found there was too much variation in the tweeter to make that work and ended up replacing the tweeter with a Vifa and tweaking the crossover to make that work. There is a mod on this forum for this and I am going to order the Vifa tweeters at some point.

It could be some of the tweeters in our pairs are not quite up to spec or as Mr. Jones would be the first to admit, it's not the ultimate speaker but compares well to most in its price range.
 
Putterman said:
A couple of things to note. Dennis Murphy was impressed by the speaker, but felt that the high end was not quite as good as the rest of the output. He thought he could tweak the crossover to improve the treble, but found there was too much variation in the tweeter to make that work and ended up replacing the tweeter with a Vifa and tweaking the crossover to make that work. There is a mod on this forum for this and I am going to order the Vifa tweeters at some point.
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I will be very interested in a more descriptive comparison of the Vifa tweeter vs. the original design and its integration into the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR. I suspect that those tweeters may cost very similarly in OEM price.
 
IBJamon said:
I am also very curious about this. I am an AMT lover for sure - I own 3 sets of ESS AMT speakers - and I have seriously thought about getting a set of the Daytons to compare them. Based on the few comparisons I have read so far, the Pioneer gets the nod, but as surrounds in a HT setup, especially since my other 5 speakers are ESS, I am thinking those might be a better match than the BIC Acoustechs I have there now.

There is also the nearfield use case, where the Daytons don't seem to do as well, at least according to the noaudiophile review. The Pioneers are Great for nearfield use, especially since they go so low, and tweeter at ear level seems to alleviate the weak high end complaints I see around here. I oriented the bookshelfs (in my case upside down) to make sure that the tweeters stay ear level, and I don't find them wanting for high end at all.

I look forward to your thoughts!
IBJamon
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If you replace the tiny cheap caps on the Airs with higher quality ones it's no contest. My Pioneers are up for sale.
 
I dunno. I think compared to the standard bearers of the 'entry level to entry level of high end' such as the Paradigm Titans and Alphas or the PSB Alphas back in the day they are definitely a slight step down, mostly because of the top end but compared to most speakers that are widely available in retail stores for $80 - $120 at places like Best Buy... I still think they are pretty impressive.

Haven't heard the new version of the Daytons and only briefly heard the originals while on vacation. They were impressive in their own way, but they just seemed lack the general vibe 'taste of the high end' that the Pioneers have.
 
"Haven't heard the new version of the Daytons and only briefly heard the originals while on vacation. They were impressive in their own way, but they just seemed lack the general vibe 'taste of the high end' that the Pioneers have".[/QUOTE]



The newest version ( Spring 2014 and beyond ) of the standard B652's only betters the Pioneers if the caps are upgraded. Very minimistic first order crossover for the Daytons makes the difference by allowing the 6.5" drivers to run full range. Better bass with the Daytons compared to the small woofered Pioneers that demand a sub.

Now the cap upgrade with the Air's goes to an another level. Greater detail and increased smoothness as the AMT is far less fatiguing.

Another advantage of the Daytons is they can be driven with a 3 watt SET amp which can't be done with the power hungry Pioneers.
 
Dennis Murphy mod

keilau said:
I will be very interested in a more descriptive comparison of the Vifa tweeter (Dennis Murphy mod) vs. the original design and its integration into the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR. I suspect that those tweeters may cost very similarly in OEM price.
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Anyone???
 
Sorry keilau, I haven't even had my original pair long enough for them to be fully broken in, let alone researched mods yet.

Last evening, I did set them up where I audition my speaker repairs. Powered by a "lowly" 25W/ch Accurian integrated, cables were various Monster products (and others- ore later) I had lying around and the source was the highly regarded, analog-like Radio Shack CD-3400 which is still limping along after 20 years. The source material was the Absolute Sound/Hearts of Space CD which truly has some "stellar" recordings.

First, these things suck up the power. My Accurian was quite hot to the touch as a result of this session wherein the power was at 3 to 4 o'clock position for suitable volume.

I really wanted to hear a $4 RCA, interconnect I had recently bought at Menards. (I'm a sucker for cheap cables but always end up disappointed.) I started with the RCA, then switched to a Monster Interlink 300, MKII cable and followed with an Monster Standard i1100 THX. The sound of each was readily apparent and principally affected the perceived depth of the excellent recording. The RCA cable had more shallowest depth and more high end but was accompanied by an annoying increase in glare/glassy sound. Admittedly, the RCA was new out of the package while the others have been played quite a bit.

The results were as I expected and were confirmed by a musician friend. However, this short session also revealed that the Pioneers in complete stock form and not even played for more than 5 hours total, are critical enough for nuances to be revealed.

Are they a bit "dark" sounding? I would agree this is the case. But there is plenty of sparkle when sparkle is present. Imaging is excellent, even with this modest $15 Accurian Amp.

I have many older classic speakers to compare them to and many of them do not sound this good, at least to my ears. Are they as bright sounding as my Genesis Model 2s? Absolutely not. While I like the "Genesis house sound", it's not to my liking for extended listening and in my opinion only sounds good with superb recordings. These are miles better than the truly dark sounding Insignias and I believe they provide a glimpse into what my better speakers (many fairly vintage by now) sound like (Rega ELAs, B&W DM3000s, ADS 710s, Rectlinear IIIs) but in a much smaller and cheaper package.

At $79.99 a pair, I still heartily recommend them.
 
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Perhaps this is a case where we have looked at the pretty girl in too strong a light for too long?

Let's face it, hands down - at 60-65 bucks, where ya gonna get a better sounding speaker that isn't a "scroe" ??
 
You guys are making me want to mod mine. They were already back in the box in the basement until I started reading about the improvements. IMHO, stock they are pretty smooth, dark and inefficient. Good bass for small drivers, but I like a little sparkle and some dynamics. Hopefully new tweets fix that.
 
Nearfield at ear level they are plenty bright in my opinion. My most commonly used headphones are the AKG Q701 which are known to be a bright headphone. Going between the speakers and the headphones, I do not find myself missing any top end.

Paired with a sub, even an inexpensive sub, in a nearfield setup with some EQ to flatten out the room response I think they are great. They get used mostly for rock, metal, and jazz.
 
Yep I think they could definitely use better dispersion of the highs, and with a few dB more output. On-axis they sound very good.
 
I'm still enjoying my BS22's (3 pairs over the years). They mate very well with my vintage receivers (Sansui, Pioneer and Marantz) where I can dial the bass and treble up or down to suit my tastes.

I don't find them bright with my gear. I run the bass +1 and treble +1 (I keep the midrange flat on the receivers that have that control).

With what A. Jones has been able to do with these, I have been very curious about the floor standing version of these, the FS-52's, for quite awhile. I saw they were on sale a few days ago (60 off for the pair) and "luckily" found out I had some reward points that were going to expire in a few days, so combining the sale price and points meant I could get a pair for the low 100's. How can you say no to that? :D

For me and where I use them, I don't need stands for the bookshelves but I liked the idea that I could use the floor standers anywhere I like and do not need to buy any stands. They are in my home office now getting some hours on them.

I'll offer opinions on the two if anyone cares.

I believe the FS's are still on sale this weekend.
 
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I would like to read your opinions on the Pioneers.

Thanks.


onemug said:
I'm still enjoying my BS22's (3 pairs over the years). They mate very well with my vintage receivers (Sansui, Pioneer and Marantz) where I can dial the bass and treble up or down to suit my tastes.

I don't find them bright with my gear. I run the bass +1 and treble +1 (I keep the midrange flat on the receivers that have that control).

With what A. Jones has been able to do with these, I have been very curious about the floor standing version of these, the FS-52's, for quite awhile. I saw they were on sale a few days ago (60 off for the pair) and "luckily" found out I had some reward points that were going to expire in a few days, so combining the sale price and points meant I could get a pair for the low 100's. How can you say no to that? :D

For me and where I use them, I don't need stands for the bookshelves but I liked the idea that I could use the floor standers anywhere I like and do not need to buy any stands. They are in my home office now getting some hours on them.

I'll offer opinions on the two if anyone cares.

I believe the FS's are still on sale this weekend.
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CKDC said:
I would like to read your opinions on the Pioneers.

Thanks.
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You got it.

Just got them on Thursday and have about 20 hrs on them so far. When I got my 22's I thought they sounded good out of the box and then got better. The 52's are a little of a roller coaster ride. I liked them out of the box. After a few hours the sound went South. The sound of applause went from hands clapping to newspaper being crumpled up. More hours and the handclaps came back then a few more times of newspaper. I'm attributing at least some of this to the fact that there are 4 drivers in each cabinet (that's 8 total) that are all softening up at slightly different rates. (the 22's only have 2 drivers each).

This morning they are sounding pretty nice, hiccuped after a short while after being turned on then steadied out and have been playing nice since. Aren't roller coasters the most fun ever?

So one comparison is...give the 52's some time, the 22's...not so much.

In a direct A/B against each other, I preferred the midrange of the 22's. I'll see if that changes as the week goes on. The 52's are a nicer load for an amp with 2 db more sensitivity and a friendlier impedance graph (tubes will like that) but the 22's are not so unfriendly regardless what the printed specs are.

Hate to say much more this early as it seems the 52's need a little more time.
 
Nice review onemug, Thanks! I forgot about the break in period for speakers. Bought a pair of 22's for the surround system to replace the little satellites we've been using. Just waiting to get done with some remodeling before I hook them up. Think I'll take the basement system out of limbo and hook these up and let them run for a while. A little Van halen type R&R should do the trick or do you have better options?
 
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