Plane Crashes Into Stands At Reno Air Races

[diamondsouled]

Heeyyy...shhhhh we don't want the wrong people reading this.ara:

Would give a whole new meaning to the term 'harness bull'.

It can just see it now. You're in the shower and the bulls come to the door: "We can tell by your water usage that someone is having a shower and we want to check the shower safety harness to make sure that it is being used properly."

Mmmmm. Guess you would have to install two harness's for those times when you are conserving water by having a shower guest :scratch2:

 

[JonVH]

The very idea of banning airshows is obsolescence and teutonic.

That's exactly what we need, another law and banning. Risks are part of life. When people go to an airshow, they had best inform and themselves and know the potential risks. Education is key.

 

[whoaru99]

When I went to Glacier National Park there were signs in some areas that said to the effect of, "People have been injured or killed by bears in this area."

I have no problem with a friendly reminder of risk at the gate, but no banning.

 

[fotno]

This one is circling the bowl folks. I don't read anywhere within this thread where anyone suggested banning airshows. Expressing a personal opinion about this incident, and whether or not is was avoidable, is a world away from insisting that such practices be outlawed.

Any further mention of legislation or lack thereof, will result in this thread being closed for violating the "No Politics" rule. If you wish to discuss political topics, go to www.politicalchat.org or the political forum of your choosing.

 

[JonVH]

This one is circling the bowl folks. I don't read anywhere within this thread where anyone suggested banning airshows. Expressing a personal opinion about this incident, and whether or not is was avoidable, is a world away from insisting that such practices be outlawed.

Any further mention of legislation or lack thereof, will result in this thread being closed for violating the "No Politics" rule. If you wish to discuss political topics, go to www.politicalchat.org or the political forum of your choosing.

You should re-read fisherdude and dnewman4s posts. He clearly says it should be outlawed, and to think it came from a moderator.

 

[JohnVF]

Everyone has his or her level of "acceptable risk". I, for example, will not get on a motorcycle. They're dangerous, even if you ride yours safely. The danger is from other people and there is nothing you can do to mitigate the danger. There are so many safer ways to travel, but I would absolutely fight for the rights of other people to take the risk of riding a bike if they wish.
Airshows are the same. If I chose to go to one, or an air race for that matter, I would know and accept the risk. That's part of it. Skydiving is also risky. But the bottom line is that people choose their own level of risk, and I don't want to live anywhere that others make that decision for me. It's MINE.

Well said. Airshows are one of my favorite things to go see, and have been some of my favorite memories that I shared as a kid with my father. I'll take the risk, and accept it if all goes wrong. If the last thing I see is an F-18 coming at me at 600mph, at least I didn't die by tripping on the curb and falling into an oncoming bus, which is a much more likely way to go around here. All I ask is that the show promoters take some precaution balanced with the enjoyment of the show by those of us who just can't get enough of watching aircraft fly around.

And God bless the pilot in this incident. It appears that what little control he had left, in all the footage I've seen, was used to avoid the major part of the stands. RIP to all of those aviation fans who died in this incident and prayers to the injured.

 

[skippy_ps]

Pic of broken trim tab on the P-51. I doubt that this caused the crash, by itself, but perhaps it's part of the story.

The broken tab would likely make the plane difficult to control but not make it pitch up and down violently.

Murray

 

[fotno]

You should re-read fisherdude and dnewman4s posts. He clearly says it should be outlawed, and to think it came from a moderator.

Fair enough, but it will stop now or the thread gets closed. BTW - Moderators are allowed to have opinions too.

 

[skippy_ps]

Better pic.

 

[epifanatic]

At those speeds and G's, that trim tab would have made it pretty squirrely.

 

[JonVH]

Agree, I fly radio controlled aircraft and while they are smaller, the behavioral characteristics go hand-in hand with the full sized airframes. I had an elevator break down the center in flight once and on another plane a control horn pulled out of the elevator, because of this every time I tried to use the elevator it induced axis spin and I had to use opposite aileron to keep it flat. On a full sized P-51 there may not be that much control surface movement at that speed to correct what went wrong. If anything is off, in this case his elevator trim, it could be uncontrollable and there is the possibility that's not the only problem that the pilot encountered.

 

[Sam Cogley]

At those speeds and G's, that trim tab would have made it pretty squirrely.

And at that altitude, especially with spectators nearby, there is absolutely zero margin for error.

 

[jaymanaa]

I've followed this terrible accident and withheld my comments until now I feel like I have enough info to intelligently comment. Well, as intelligently as possible for a guy who got cheated when they were handing out brains. I thought they said rain and grabbed an umbrella. This was not a 50 year old air frame, it was a HIGHLY modified overpowered,, lightweight vehicle (much like any race vehicle, it's physics). The Man piloting the craft was not rolled out of the old folks home and into the cockpit. He was a seasoned veteran of aircraft piloting in general with an emphasis on racing. He was well respected by competitors and fans alike. Something broke, and that's what happens with any machine on the planet. Machines break, and everyone of them will or has. I can remember standing against the short chain link fence when the 300mph barrier was broken in Funny Car racing. I knew the risk I was taking, and I knew it "hurt" when the cars went by that close, but it made me feel more of a part of it (I got a bigger thrill than those in the top bleachers). The bottom line is, this is America and we race things. We chain old four door sedans to back of jet cars and melt them just for halftime entertainment. We build ridiculously huge pick up trucks, that break axles, sending huge tires bounding off toward the crowds. We build rockets that go to the moon, how safe is that? We are now in the planning stages of a rocket that will go to Mars. It dwarfs the Apollo jobs. Unless someone held a gun to to these folks heads and made them stand where they had a one in a billion chance of dying, where is the foul. I am so tired of a few "smart people" dictating to all of us "dumb" people what freedoms we should enjoy. My advice is that if you are scared of being hit by an airplane, stay as far away from airshows as possible. I choose to celebrate the Galloping Ghost, and a man that died living his dreams. Something very few of us have the balls to do.

 

[kneeOhFight]

At those speeds and G's, that trim tab would have made it pretty squirrely.

indeed it would. any failure of, let alone loss of, a control surface on a high performance aircraft (or a proper,modern racing car) at or near its terminal velocity would be very disruptive, probably leading to the knock on effect of multiple over corrections. Hell of a way to spend ones final seconds, but there it is.

 

[jaymanaa]

Looks perfectly safe to me, even with the shortened wings.:yes:

 

[skippy_ps]

Here, it appears the trim tab has separated from the aircraft.

 

[John James]

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

While I think I agree with your point which may be about speculating on precious little information, I just re-read the entire thread and there really isn't that much *incorrect* information. The little bits of information given minutes and hours after this happened were basically *real time* reports from the news. The biggest piece of mis-information seems to be the pilots age which originally reported as 80 is now being reported as 74.

Edit: FWIW, I try not to speculate at all with events like this because the news we get today is often reporting laymen's opinion to fill a void instead of facts and doing proper research.

"12 dead."
"100 injured."
"80 year old pilot."

I just meant for everybody to slow down until the FACTS were known.

 

[jaymanaa]

Here, it appears the trim tab has separated from the aircraft.

Just a freak malfunction with a terrible outcome. I would bet that the Ghost was maintained just a little better than America's worn out fleet of passenger jet aircraft. Reckon?

 

[diamondsouled]

Just a freak malfunction with a terrible outcome. I would bet that the Ghost was maintained just a little better than America's worn out fleet of passenger jet aircraft. Reckon?

The thing is, the guys who love to do this sort of thing love the machines that they do them in just as much. Having them look beautiful and operate optimally is as much a source of pride as putting them through the maneuvers. Kinda like us and our audio gear. :yes:

Like Jay said I'm sure every inch of the Galloping Ghost was inspected regularly, every moving part even more regularly.

That he did his best to avoid the main grandstand area is a credit to the man. It could have been far worse.

 

[cubby01]

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

While I think I agree with your point which may be about speculating on precious little information, I just re-read the entire thread and there really isn't that much *incorrect* information. The little bits of information given minutes and hours after this happened were basically *real time* reports from the news. The biggest piece of mis-information seems to be the pilots age which originally reported as 80 is now being reported as 74.

Edit: FWIW, I try not to speculate at all with events like this because the news we get today is often reporting laymen's opinion to fill a void instead of facts and doing proper research.

"12 dead."
"100 injured."
"80 year old pilot."

I just meant for everybody to slow down until the FACTS were known.

We are saying the same thing then. Those numbers were what the news channels were giving out at the times of those post. And like I said, I wish our news outlets would do a better job of fact checking before reporting to the general public. Think about the majority of big fast breaking news stories in recent years. In the mad dash to get something on the air, or try to stay ahead or keep up with the competition, how many hearsay reports and opinions stated as fact turn out later to be garbage. Too many IMO.