Quad Sansui problem; help???

[Trnsfmr]

Afterall, it would be a DARN shame if the 9001 ended up as another anchor......IF it does...DIBS ON A COUPLE OF KNOBS!;-))))))))

You know, I been watching the price of 9001 and 9090 knobs, and they just seem to be going up and up. I need some too. Pretty soon it might be worthwhile to buy a 9001 on the bay, and then just sell the knobs to highest bidder. And, yeah, Anders, I will admit you are funny....... sometimes..... maybe when you're in Dallas. LOL

 

[Betomon]

I wonder if you could be having the same AC problem that Anders started with. I suppose it's worth a try. There are two 3.9 ohm resistors on the power supply board, right next to the relay. Check and see if they are good. They should read 3.9R. You may have to lift one end of each to be doubly sure.

These resistors were open on Anders' 9001, which would not allow the unit to start up. These resistors are in series with the AC line until the big caps charge up. Once they are charged then the relay closes, shorting out the resistors and giving full voltage to the power transformer. If they're open, the AC never happens, cause the relay never closes.

If they are bad, you will have to get replacements.

Glad you decided to let us help you. We do have a sense of humor. at least some of us. Anders just drinks coffee.

I tested the resistors, which had some brown crap on them.. I dont know what it is, so I put a picture of it. I noticed this way back the first time I opened the unit. :thumbsdn:



But I checked them with a multimeter set on 2000kΩ and got 160-159 for both of them. What does this mean? :scratch2:

 

[Betomon]

By the way, is it unusual that my power cord says Kawasaki on it?????

 

[Trnsfmr]

By the way, is it unusual that my power cord says Kawasaki on it?????

Does it say Ninja on it?

If those resistors read 160, then they are bad. You have to get replacements that are the same, I think they are 3 watts, 3.9 ohms. That is why your unit will not turn on.

I'm glad you noticed the brown crap on the resistors. That is more than likely from the big black electrolytic capacitors that sit on the little shelf right over top of the relay and resistors. If you look at the bottom of the caps, between where the two connections are, you will probably see a + looking split where the plastic has opened up and more of the gukky brown stuff. It is more than likely on your power supply board also. If it's there on the board, it has to thoroughly be cleaned off as it is very conductive.

This means your big caps are probably all bad. check them all for having opened up at the same place. I can give you a part number to order from mouser that is very reasonably priced.

Betomon, this is good. You're doing what we ask and noticing real important stuff and including a picture of what you noticed. From the viewpoint of a guy trying to help out, it doesn't get any better, so, GREAT JOB!!

OK, now you will need to get the resistors. Report back on anything abnormal about those big black caps, 10,000uf 50v. I don't know where you live, so maybe you will want to make a Mouser order. Let us know about the caps and we'll go from there.

Cool!!!

 

[Trnsfmr]

So Anderslober, It's kinda like deja vu all over again, huh? First thing we fix is the 3.9 resistors. Really interesting, huh.

 

[kevzep]

So Anderslober, It's kinda like deja vu all over again, huh? First thing we fix is the 3.9 resistors. Really interesting, huh.

Yeah, look at this.........here we go again.....

Im observing Jim......your lead at the moment though......

Nice, progress.....

 

[Betomon]

Well its good to know I'm making progress

I was going to go to bed but, I won't sleep without doing it.. so, I went ahead and examined the caps and the board underneath them. They are all pretty much cracked a little on the bottom or have small holes. The one on the far left that sits on top of the resistors/relay area has the biggest hole. So, all new big caps? I will buy whatever I need to buy based on your advice because I don't know where to get them or how and all that jazz, so, please enlighten me on the subject :yes: Oh and also for the resistors.

I looked at the board and there is not much of that brown gunk around, but there was a little on the metal next to the resistors, that little corner.. almost like it got sprayed or something. What do you recommend I do about that brown gunk if I do find it on the board? just brush it off? or do I need some kind of cleaner.

My phone camera could barely get the holes or cracks, so I tried it with another camera but the autofocus just wont... autofocus right
Still, I think you can see the little hole(s) I'm talking about







And here's the dirty corner



AND HERE's THE KAWASAKI PLUG!

 

[Betomon]

By the way guys, I'm Albert. Nice to meet you all

 

[Trnsfmr]

Yep, they're all bad. this means that your 9001 has been pushed really hard and got hot while doing it. Could be it got left on for weeks with the ventilation grid in the back covered up. All those parts in the power supply area probably got really hot.

So, here's what I think you should do.

1. replace the 3.9R 3 watt resistors, put in 5 watters, since this problem seems to happen a lot.

2. I think you should recap your power supply board and the little power supply board. The power supply board is the one with the relay/resistors on it. Chances are the caps on that board got just as hot as the big ones The little power supply board is the one standing vertical right behind the bass/treble controls. We should redo these, because if something else should happen to the power supply, it could undo all the other work we are about to embark on.

3. Replace the big 10K 50v caps. the new ones will be much smaller than the old ones, and you will have to rewire and probably silicon glue them to the little shelf. That shelf also has the big rectifiers that supply the big caps that supply the amplifiers and outputs. It's very important.

4. Clean the brown crappy stuff from every place you can find it. You can use just water on a rag, or some mild soapy stuff that you spray, like 409 cleaner, or simple green, something like that. It's very corrosive and you have to get it off everything that its on. Don't worry, getting electronics parts wet won't hurt them. Make sure it's totally dry before you turn it on again, and don't get any moisture inside the plastic relay case.

When you changed the transistor at school, it was probably the big cap puking the brown stuff out that made the smoke inside. In any case, we will change all the power supply caps out. Where is the one that you said was bulging out? Picture? I'll find my list of caps for the power supply boards and give you a list of parts to order from Mouser, and a little tutorial on how to order from them.

When we get all this worked out, I'll hand you off to the Amp Master, Mr Kevzep, to deal with output transistor problems, and how best to go about powering this thing up again. THAT will be the tricky part.

So, Kev and Anders, I guess we are real gluttons for punishment. Here we go again. At least this guy lives in a reasonable time zone and won't keep me up til 3 in the morning!!!!!!!

 

[Trnsfmr]

And by the way, I have two 9001's in my shop right now. I checked and they both have Kawasaki plugs. Imagine that. I used to have a Kawasaki Eddie Lawson Replica 1200R that I sold a couple years ago, and I know it didn't have any Sansui parts on it. LOL

 

[Trnsfmr]

Ok, here's a list of caps for the power supply board and the little power supply board.

1 3.3@50v
1 47@6.3v
2 47@50v
1 100@10v
2 100@50v
3 220@16v
1 220@25v
2 220@35v
1 220@50v
4 220@63v
2 330@63v
2 1000@63v
4 10,000@50v

8 4.7@80v nonpolarized, somtimes called BP

Go to Mouser.com
over on the left select passive components
then select capacitors
then select Aluminum electrolytic capacitors
then select aluminum electrolytic capacitors--leaded

Now you will be presented with a bunch of choices. Put in the value and voltage for each cap you want to buy. then select apply filters. You will get lots of capacitors. then select the little up arrow at the top of the price column and they will be arranged in increasing price. Most any of these will work for this application. Guys here like brands like Nichicon, Panasonic, Similac, etc. If you're in school, you probly don't have a lot of bucks, so go with the cheaper ones, They'll work fine.

You'll notice that the stuff is pretty cheap. two things, make sure anything you buy is in stock, and make sure that they will sell in the quatitiy you want, some are only available in huge quantities.

After you buy something, use the back arrow to get back to the point that you can make more selections.

To buy the non polarized ones, you have to select that over on the right at the top of the list.

The best buy for the 10k @50v will be found by working your way back til you can select snap in capacitors instead of leaded. The chart gets a little confusing, you want .01 Farad@50v. The Cornell Dubilers, SLPX are excellent caps and cheap. They are designed for switching power supply use and have good lifetime ratings, 50% better than a lot of others.

If you were able to work your way through all this, you'll be able to find the 3.9 resistors just fine. If at any time, you are not sure if the part your considering is the right part, you can always click on data sheet and you'll get a lot of info, including a picture.

These caps are the most expensive ones in the 9001. All the rest of them are small values and cost pennies each. We'll just do the power supply for now. once we get it working, you can decide whether to do the recap and some of the other repairs required for the 9001. No sense going all out til it works.

 

[Trnsfmr]

Albert,

By the way I'm Jim, and this Is Kevin over on my left, he lives in New Zealand, and over here on the right is Anders, he lives in Singapore, but travels the whole world on a weekly basis. One of the things he does that makes us mad is he comes over here to America and buys up really nice 9001's and then takes them back to Singapore. Oooooh, that hurts. Just kidding. LOL

I forgot some other parts you need. So, with your order to Mouser get the following, and I won't walk you through it, but I'm sure you can find them.

1/2 watt metal film resistors
15 4.7 ohm
5 10 ohm
10 150ohm
5 180 ohm

These will have to be changed out on a couple boards before you can power up again.

 

[kevzep]

Nice work Jim......looks like we are well under way........

 

[Pepa]

Oh no, another quad saga

Albert,just stick with these guys and your Sansui will sing soon :thmbsp:

 

[Betomon]

Awesome guys, I will buy all these components when my dad gets here tomorrow. But I can start looking now

Oh, and how interesting about the Kawasaki plugs... really intriguing for some reason

And here is the cap I told you about before that I thought was the one smoking.. I didnt actually see the smoke, I just kind of smelled to a spot. But the way the driver boards were in, the smoke could have very well came from that big cap on the left, the bottom of it, and then drifted through the top, right next to the driver board where I smelled.

But still, it does look a little funky on the bottom. It is the 63v 330µf cap. Theres two of them on each driver board. All others look fine (no holes in the glue or whatever that orangy-stuff is )




Anyway, travels the world?? Whaaa? Lucky! :tresbon: And who wouldnt want to come to America just to get a 9001? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me :yes:

 

[nosirrah]

Hey Albert,
Something that helps me is to take good pics as I go, sometimes I also do a few, then check results, but that won't help you as you are INOP now.
I have a standard di-pole FM antenna that says "Sansui" on it...so they did emboss stuff they probably didn't make...
Watch your polarity on those caps...

 

[Trnsfmr]

And here is the cap I told you about before that I thought was the one smoking.. I didnt actually see the smoke, I just kind of smelled to a spot. But the way the driver boards were in, the smoke could have very well came from that big cap on the left, the bottom of it, and then drifted through the top, right next to the driver board where I smelled.

But still, it does look a little funky on the bottom. It is the 63v 330µf cap. Theres two of them on each driver board. All others look fine (no holes in the glue or whatever that orangy-stuff is )

I don't think there is anything wrong with that cap. Just a little too much glue that bubbled a little bit. If there was a problem with the cap, it would probably bulge on the top. We'll leave those caps alone except for the ones I already talked about.

Kevin, (oh god of amplifiers) Maybe you would want Albert to begin checking his output transistors, maybe the transistors on the driver boards? That kind of stuff, It will probably be almost a week before he gets those parts from Mouser. Not replacing anything yet, you know just getting ready?

I don't know why, but I really get a kick out of doing this.

 

[Betomon]

Hey Albert,
Something that helps me is to take good pics as I go, sometimes I also do a few, then check results, but that won't help you as you are INOP now.
I have a standard di-pole FM antenna that says "Sansui" on it...so they did emboss stuff they probably didn't make...
Watch your polarity on those caps...

Thanks for that tip, I will try to find a decent camera soon but.. what does INOP mean? :stupid:

And, I will definitely need to make sure the polarity is correct, what would be the best way to determine that?


And, do you advice I go ahead and take off the caps and resistors I will be replacing? My dad is bringing his soldering stuff tomorrow. And I can test the transistors if thats what you guys think I should do next

 

[Betomon]

I don't think there is anything wrong with that cap. Just a little too much glue that bubbled a little bit. If there was a problem with the cap, it would probably bulge on the top. We'll leave those caps alone except for the ones I already talked about.

Ok, I'm glad to hear that. And the top does indeed look fine. The driver boards are out, so if I need to start testing transistors or whatnot let me know, because if I need to order anything having the whole list would probably save me some money for shipping. I really, really hope those transistors i got arent fried.. It would be a total shame

 

[nosirrah]

Thanks for that tip, I will try to find a decent camera soon but.. what does INOP mean? :stupid:

And, I will definitely need to make sure the polarity is correct, what would be the best way to determine that?


And, do you advice I go ahead and take off the caps and resistors I will be replacing? My dad is bringing his soldering stuff tomorrow. And I can test the transistors if thats what you guys think I should do next

INOP means inoperative...and no, I wouldn't remove anything until I had the replacement in hand.
Dad has soldering gear, that's good, if he doesn't have one go to Radio shack and get a de-soldering iron, best $12 you will spend this year.