isn't this your setup? looks complete to me. http://www.fisherconsoles.com/service manuals/FISHER FUTURA IV SM.pdf
it doesn't have those voltage values, though. refer to @larryderouin's post above re the ambassador.
Ready to get to work on 1963 Fisher Futura IV Console
- Thread starter Gary Mettus
- Start date
it doesn't have those voltage values, though. refer to @larryderouin's post above re the ambassador.
Gary Mettus
Member
The Audio Doctor in Phoenix told me, "Sorry, I don’t work on these any longer." I'm not sure if he meant any vintage Fisher amp or just my lowly amp. I think he has plenty of McIntosh work to keep him more than busy. He was nice enough to refer someone else in Phoenix that had not popped up in my own search. I emailed them pretty detailed info on the condition of the amp and what I wanted done (recap the electrolytics) including reference material and pictures. They called me and first asked if it was working as their motto is "if it ain't broken, don't touch it." So I reiterated that I wanted to start out just replacing the electrolytic caps and that they have never been replaced so they are 57 years old. I told him I hadn't even turned it on yet and he said just fire it up.
Needless to say I won't be using these guys. After I talked to the guy I've used before for late 70's Pioneer equipment I found he is well versed in vintage tube amps too. So, as soon as I get my can caps from Hayseed Hamfest I will take it to him. I think the quotes of between $33 and $35 for each 3-section can cap is pretty reasonable for custom made products that will keep things as close to OEM as possible.
I've been thinking about what to do with the cabinet and I got a plan for that too. Even though it is in great shape the finish is definitely in need of a refreshing. From what I've read on this site it is pretty unanimous that no one cares for the French Provincial style cabinets. Everyone loves the Modern and most even like the Italian / Mediterranean. These are my feelings as well. The French Provincial reminds me of Grandma's house. So, I'll be going a little beyond just a refresh or refurb on the cabinet.
Needless to say I won't be using these guys. After I talked to the guy I've used before for late 70's Pioneer equipment I found he is well versed in vintage tube amps too. So, as soon as I get my can caps from Hayseed Hamfest I will take it to him. I think the quotes of between $33 and $35 for each 3-section can cap is pretty reasonable for custom made products that will keep things as close to OEM as possible.
I've been thinking about what to do with the cabinet and I got a plan for that too. Even though it is in great shape the finish is definitely in need of a refreshing. From what I've read on this site it is pretty unanimous that no one cares for the French Provincial style cabinets. Everyone loves the Modern and most even like the Italian / Mediterranean. These are my feelings as well. The French Provincial reminds me of Grandma's house. So, I'll be going a little beyond just a refresh or refurb on the cabinet.
nice score Gary! my wife would let me keep something like that just for the feet on the cabinet 
and we don't even have any room for it!
you'll love getting this thing back to life. Fisher made some great gear.
-Steve
**oh, and another hearty endorsement for Hayseed Hamfest products!
and we don't even have any room for it!you'll love getting this thing back to life. Fisher made some great gear.
-Steve
**oh, and another hearty endorsement for Hayseed Hamfest products!
Gary Mettus
Member
I have a speaker question.
The WS-1 connection seems to be straight off the mains. Does anyone have a pair of the WS-1 speakers? What kind of crossover is in them? I would think just a simple high pass filter like a single cap or did they get more involved with a resistor and coil?
I find the WS-1 a funny coincidence for me. The 1990 amp I got to replace the amp I blew in my Dad's Westinghouse console has a main amp of 100 wpc plus a small separate surround amp of 25 wpc. The 15" drivers in the console are the same CTS drivers that Klipsch used in that era but the compression driven horns are not quite that good but good enough, I really like the results with the 100 wpc amp. I figured I would put the surround amp to use and I made a pair of 5.25" mid-high speakers that I set higher and wider than the console. It really open up the sound stage.
I'd like to do the same with the Fisher. I haven't hooked up the speakers to any of my amps yet (waiting on new caps to arrive) but from what I've read the Futura IV speakers are basically the same as the XP-1A speakers which are from what I've read a little weak on the high end. I was thinking of making my own WS-1 speakers that would favor the high end more so than even the mids.
The WS-1 connection seems to be straight off the mains. Does anyone have a pair of the WS-1 speakers? What kind of crossover is in them? I would think just a simple high pass filter like a single cap or did they get more involved with a resistor and coil?
I find the WS-1 a funny coincidence for me. The 1990 amp I got to replace the amp I blew in my Dad's Westinghouse console has a main amp of 100 wpc plus a small separate surround amp of 25 wpc. The 15" drivers in the console are the same CTS drivers that Klipsch used in that era but the compression driven horns are not quite that good but good enough, I really like the results with the 100 wpc amp. I figured I would put the surround amp to use and I made a pair of 5.25" mid-high speakers that I set higher and wider than the console. It really open up the sound stage.
I'd like to do the same with the Fisher. I haven't hooked up the speakers to any of my amps yet (waiting on new caps to arrive) but from what I've read the Futura IV speakers are basically the same as the XP-1A speakers which are from what I've read a little weak on the high end. I was thinking of making my own WS-1 speakers that would favor the high end more so than even the mids.
The WS-1 is approx 4"x7" with a single cap (haven't opened mine in years) and is used mainly as an adjunct for increased separation. It's all mid's & Highs. I stick mine under my executive pointing sideways or diagonally toward the front. If they are out in the open, they become point sources especially spread wide apart.
You'd be better off getting some comparable tweeters from Partsexpress and replacing the internal tweeters in the console. They can be the weak spot in the whole speaker system.
You'd be better off getting some comparable tweeters from Partsexpress and replacing the internal tweeters in the console. They can be the weak spot in the whole speaker system.
Gary Mettus
Member
I agree with replacing the tweeters. I downloaded the brochure for the WS-1 and it shows a weird speaker placement of well in front of the console, I don't know how they expected people to live with this unless it was placed in a long narrow room and they could be up against the side walls. I think a silk dome would complement the other drivers. I'm pretty sure in something else I downloaded it shows at what point it crosses over for the tweeter or I have a link to a website that can calculate that point from the crossover components.
---
Yes - if we cld only rewind the tape labelled "2020"
can we fast-forward instead? I don't think i want to see this one again.
Gary Mettus
Member
Funny, I almost forgot about seeing this Scott component system 11 months ago. It is also funny how close the specs are to my Fisher. I definitely think I got the better deal at $125 vs $3,500!
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...t-az-garrard-301-scott-tubes-klh-3500.887698/
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...t-az-garrard-301-scott-tubes-klh-3500.887698/
Gary Mettus
Member
The can caps will be arriving much sooner than expected (they must have recovered pretty well in Iowa) so that part of the project should proceed shortly.
I already have the caps for the speakers so I took all the drivers and crossover out of one of the speakers. All the drivers look brand new including the doping on the surrounds. I had originally thought of immediately replacing the tweeter but I think I'm going to get it all together in its original form and enjoy the sound of 1963 for a while and evaluate if I want to do anything, if at all. I'm thinking this will become my stereo to listen to 1950's Jazz on. The other console is definitely my stereo to listen to 1970's Rock on.
Once I opened the speakers up and took everything out it has given me additional ideas. I think the advantage of the Ambassador over the Futura is the wider face of the speakers on the Ambassador so there is nothing occluding the drivers. I've never seen so many screws holding something together as there are holding this speaker frame to the rest of the cabinet. I think I can modify this (if I decide to make changes) to eliminate the decorative French Provincial surround and end up with a clean rectangular frame with the drivers mounted on the front instead of the rear which would almost be required if I switch the cone tweeter to a soft dome tweeter. I've not had to monkey around with port tubes before in the other speakers I've worked on but from a quick run through on a port tube calculator I think this original port tube is way to long and is tuned to approximately 17Hz. I would think 25Hz would be more appropriate. I'd also like to have it facing the floor.
I already have the caps for the speakers so I took all the drivers and crossover out of one of the speakers. All the drivers look brand new including the doping on the surrounds. I had originally thought of immediately replacing the tweeter but I think I'm going to get it all together in its original form and enjoy the sound of 1963 for a while and evaluate if I want to do anything, if at all. I'm thinking this will become my stereo to listen to 1950's Jazz on. The other console is definitely my stereo to listen to 1970's Rock on.
Once I opened the speakers up and took everything out it has given me additional ideas. I think the advantage of the Ambassador over the Futura is the wider face of the speakers on the Ambassador so there is nothing occluding the drivers. I've never seen so many screws holding something together as there are holding this speaker frame to the rest of the cabinet. I think I can modify this (if I decide to make changes) to eliminate the decorative French Provincial surround and end up with a clean rectangular frame with the drivers mounted on the front instead of the rear which would almost be required if I switch the cone tweeter to a soft dome tweeter. I've not had to monkey around with port tubes before in the other speakers I've worked on but from a quick run through on a port tube calculator I think this original port tube is way to long and is tuned to approximately 17Hz. I would think 25Hz would be more appropriate. I'd also like to have it facing the floor.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
The motor caps on the REW motor are shot!!!
And the mic preamp in the mixing console, and the talk back mic both blew. So I can't announce this "Master 2020, take 2, from the top please" so we can get a re-take in the studio of this year.
Gary Mettus
Member
I installed the new speaker caps and put everything back in the cabinet. I hooked it up to my wife's little 1980 40wpc Pioneer amp and the speakers sound amazing! I wouldn't change a thing. If they had this thing working at the estate sale it definitely would have sold at full price on the first day. I have all the caps for the amp and tuner/preamp so I can take it to my guy to install these, test the rest and start it up. I can't wait to hear the whole package when it's all back together.
Gary Mettus
Member
I was looking for the original price of a Garrard A record changer in 1963 so I could inflate to 2020 dollars ($675 including Pickering Cartridge) and I came across this really cool catalogue from Allied Radio in Chicago, "Electronics for Everyone."
https://issuu.com/98517886/docs/allied-catalog-1963
https://issuu.com/98517886/docs/allied-catalog-1963
The Allied catalogs are a nice reference for specs and pricing. Worldradiohistory has them I think, along with Radio Shack and lots of other magazines with print ads. Fun to look at them, but also a bit of a shocker if you work out the price in 2020 dollars on this stuff. The old "but it only cost X 60 years ago" gets a lot less meaningful. Check out tube list prices from the early 60s some time. Many of them are actually cheaper now.
800c went something like $449.99 in 1963. $3,822.24 in 2020
1963 Executive Model 950 went for $1395.00 without R2R.......2020 $11,849.20
and with the Ampex 1250 R2R....$1795........2020..$15,246.82 A base Model '63 Chevy II Nova was approx $1700.
1963 Executive Model 950 went for $1395.00 without R2R.......2020 $11,849.20
and with the Ampex 1250 R2R....$1795........2020..$15,246.82 A base Model '63 Chevy II Nova was approx $1700.
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Gary Mettus
Member
OK, I got the amp and tuner/preamp back from my guy who replaced all the caps I sourced a couple of weeks ago and he was really impressed with it; said, "It cranks!" 
and I'm ready to get it all back together. He said the fuse was blown and he only had a 4A slo-blo to test it (it specs a 3.2A slo-blo) and one of the tuner light bulbs was out and since I sourced the caps he thought I'd rather just find these myself. Hahaha, what a pain in the butt it has been to find these two parts! I finally found both on Amazon (not by searching on Amazon) after searching all over God's green earth for them and the bulbs are actually coming from France. The fuse wasn't really that hard to find but trying to get a decent deal was. A five pack of of Bussman fuses is $9.13 including shipping. The festoon style bulbs are an old European size; 6mm x 36mm, 6V, 3W. Two of these are $7.50 including shipping.
After listening to it with several other receivers and amps and looking at it for two months I decided not to change anything with the cabinet, it has grown on me. I did install in a rear firing position a pair of Dayton Audio silk dome tweeters in new rear speaker panels I made out of MDF. I haven't hooked them up yet but I think they'll improve the high end just enough. I have found these Fisher speakers to be perfect for the late 50's/early 60's jazz I like without the additional tweeters but with other music (mostly vocals) they just seem weak on the high end. For jazz, piano and horns, the timbre is currently perfect and if I were not to listen to anything else on it I wouldn't change a thing, I love it!
and I'm ready to get it all back together. He said the fuse was blown and he only had a 4A slo-blo to test it (it specs a 3.2A slo-blo) and one of the tuner light bulbs was out and since I sourced the caps he thought I'd rather just find these myself. Hahaha, what a pain in the butt it has been to find these two parts! I finally found both on Amazon (not by searching on Amazon) after searching all over God's green earth for them and the bulbs are actually coming from France. The fuse wasn't really that hard to find but trying to get a decent deal was. A five pack of of Bussman fuses is $9.13 including shipping. The festoon style bulbs are an old European size; 6mm x 36mm, 6V, 3W. Two of these are $7.50 including shipping. After listening to it with several other receivers and amps and looking at it for two months I decided not to change anything with the cabinet, it has grown on me. I did install in a rear firing position a pair of Dayton Audio silk dome tweeters in new rear speaker panels I made out of MDF. I haven't hooked them up yet but I think they'll improve the high end just enough. I have found these Fisher speakers to be perfect for the late 50's/early 60's jazz I like without the additional tweeters but with other music (mostly vocals) they just seem weak on the high end. For jazz, piano and horns, the timbre is currently perfect and if I were not to listen to anything else on it I wouldn't change a thing, I love it!
I used to pour over allied-radio shack annual catalogs, and don't forget Lafayette Radio Electronics. No shortage of dreams for a kid growing up..
Great retro link !
