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Recapping the 1060 recaps

EchoWars said:
One criticism...you can find caps of the same diameter as the originals to use for the power supply cap and the output caps so that they fit in the clamps without any 'filler'. Looks a lot better.

If the proper diameter cap can't be found, see if there's a way to mount the proper size clamp.
Click to expand...
Any chance you could expand on that? Thanks
 
EchoWars said:
One criticism...you can find caps of the same diameter as the originals to use for the power supply cap and the output caps so that they fit in the clamps without any 'filler'. Looks a lot better.

If the proper diameter cap can't be found, see if there's a way to mount the proper size clamp.
Click to expand...

I recall you mentioning this before. I actually got the idea for using gasketing foam from QuadBob. I guess I am cheap and like to reuse the brackets that came with the original unit.

If I had a unit where the PS caps are clearly visible like a McIntosh or Tube amp I would certainly seek out new clamps as the foam stripping is a bit of an eyesore.

Noted.
 
Shakey Jakey said:
So, would it be better to find caps that fit the old brackets or fit new brackets to the new caps?
Click to expand...

If you can find caps that fit the old brackets, that would be ideal. Trouble is, modern caps are generally smaller than they were 30 years ago so it's a bit tougher to find the right size.

It's worth mentioning the topic of discussion is the Marantz 1060 which does use some oddball values (3000uf for instance) which may not be available new.
 
Shakey Jakey said:
I have read that is somewhat a standard practice to put larger caps in. Does that make the problem easier to solve?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Sometimes a manufacturer will offer two size variations of the same value caps. Panasonic, for instance has the THA can-type caps that come in "tall skinny" and "fat short" for the same values.

To an extent, yes, its good to increase the size of these. But you need to be careful as well because increasing too much will create too much inrush current and could burn out other components, diodes, rectifiers, etc.

Since capacitors have a pretty relaxed tolerance anyhow (+/- 20% usually) It's not a bad thing to bump that up a bit more, say, 30-40% for the power supply ripple filter caps or capacitor-coupled output caps.
 
Shakey Jakey said:
I know what the coupling caps are but what about the ripple caps? The solo big one?
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In the case of the 1060, yes, the large black one connected to the chassis via the metal bracket. The other two large ones are the output caps and they are connected to the driver board. They are the 3000uf ones, I believe the ripple one is 4700uf stock
 
The 4700µf 80V power supply cap could be increased to 6800µf or even 8200µf~10,000µf with no issues. The 3000µf (55V?) output caps are too small for decent bass response from any speaker if the woofer impedance drops to anything below 8 ohms, and should be increased to a minimum of 4700µf. A 1K 1W resistor should also be connected from the output side of these caps to ground to prevent any thumps.

I might be able to make suggestions, but I need to know the diameter of the stock caps (in mm). Looks like the big 4700µf 80V cap might be 50mm, but I have no idea about the other two. Would also be good to know the actual voltage on the large power supply cap to see if a 75V cap could be safely used.

Standard diameters are 25mm, 35mm, 40mm, 50mm, 63mm, 76mm, and 92mm.
 
EchoWars said:
The 3000µf (55V?) output caps are too small for decent bass response from any speaker if the woofer impedance drops to anything below 8 ohms, and should be increased to a minimum of 4700µf.
Click to expand...

I am curious why Marantz themselves didn't do this. Do you have any idea? It's not like they were short of real estate under the hood. That amp is spacious inside.
 
xoaphexox said:
Yes and no. Sometimes a manufacturer will offer two size variations of the same value caps. Panasonic, for instance has the THA can-type caps that come in "tall skinny" and "fat short" for the same values.

To an extent, yes, its good to increase the size of these. But you need to be careful as well because increasing too much will create too much inrush current and could burn out other components, diodes, rectifiers, etc.

Since capacitors have a pretty relaxed tolerance anyhow (+/- 20% usually) It's not a bad thing to bump that up a bit more, say, 30-40% for the power supply ripple filter caps or capacitor-coupled output caps.
Click to expand...

Do people try to match cap values as close to spec as possible by testing before installing them or is that accounted for in the circuit already? It seems to me that such a large variation could alter the SQ.
 
Madman007 said:
Do people try to match cap values as close to spec as possible by testing before installing them or is that accounted for in the circuit already? It seems to me that such a large variation could alter the SQ.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't match capacitors before I put them in because I simply don't have a capacitor tester.

I am not sure what the 'professionals' do, Echo?
 
OK, all 3 caps stand about 75mm off the chassis with about 6mm of headroom under the cover. The single large cap is 50mm and the two smaller are 35mm in diameter.
 
EchoWars said:
A 1K 1W resistor should also be connected from the output side of these caps to ground to prevent any thumps.
Click to expand...

I am familiar with the 1060 thump... pardon my ignorance, by "output" side of these caps what exactly do you mean?

I am intrigued and would like to add this resistor to my 1060.
 
Just what I meant...the output of each amplifier is fed to the positive side of these DC blocking caps. The other side is the output side, the side that connects to the speakers...the negative terminal. Adding the resistor from the negative side of this DC blocking cap to ground gives the cap a source of electrons when the speakers aren't connected and will prevent the thump you get when you switch the speakers in.
Madman007 said:
Do people try to match cap values as close to spec as possible by testing before installing them or is that accounted for in the circuit already? It seems to me that such a large variation could alter the SQ.
Click to expand...
Audio qualities are determined by the topology of the amp, not the individual components (provided the individual components are reasonably chosen for the task at hand).
Shakey Jakey said:
OK, all 3 caps stand about 75mm off the chassis with about 6mm of headroom under the cover. The single large cap is 50mm and the two smaller are 35mm in diameter.
Click to expand...
Height isn't critical, since you can mount the caps deeper in the clamps to clear the top cover. But..

If I was to replace these three caps in a 1060, I'd look at the Vishay-Sprague 36DX103G075BC2A. 10,000µf 75V, 50mm x 105mm. If that's too much to hide under the chassis, the Cornell Dubilier/Mallory CGS75V10000S would work. 10,000µf 75V, 50mm x 80mm. Both are high-quality screw-terminal caps.

http://www.newark.com/17M8388/passi...shay-sprague-36dx103g075bc2a&_requestid=87915
http://www.newark.com/69K1794/passives/product.us0?sku=cornell-dubilier-cgs103u075v3c

The output caps determine the low-frequency roll-off point. Bigger the cap, the lower the frequency. With a 35mm diameter, you're stuck with a snap-in type, so I'd go with a large cap that fits the stock clamp. Mouser has a 8200µf 50V United Chemi-Con KMH cap (#EKMH500VNN822MA35T) that measures 35mm x 35mm.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=0Kodg4Py2Q5hRScmVZZ5mw==
 
EchoWars said:
The output caps determine the low-frequency roll-off point. Bigger the cap, the lower the frequency. With a 35mm diameter, you're stuck with a snap-in type, so I'd go with a large cap that fits the stock clamp. Mouser has a 8200µf 50V United Chemi-Con KMH cap (#EKMH500VNN822MA35T) that measures 35mm x 35mm.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=0Kodg4Py2Q5hRScmVZZ5mw==
Click to expand...

What output levels would necessitate having this increase, or would it be the same benefit from .01W through 30W output?

I am a very low level listener (especially because my 1060 is my office unit) so I am curious about the impact of this.

Are those Cornell screw terminal caps different from the Panasonic tha/tsha in any other aspect than termination style? The spec sheets looked similiar enough as they were both "General Purpose" and used as a power supply cap in this situation.

Thanks!
 
Screw-terminal caps are just better quality caps...simply a step up the food chain.

The roll-off point has nothing to do with output level (but if you have a powerful amp, and for some reason you're going to cap-couple the output, you need a bigger cap to handle the output current).

Formula for the low frequency roll-off is f=1/(2(pi)CR)

If the cap is 3000µf and the woofer is 4 ohm, then:
f= 1/(6.28)(.003)(4)
=13Hz

A 8 ohm woofer would halve this frequency. Sounds low, till you consider the phase effects that this low filter is introducing to the bass frequencies.

Calcuate again using the 8200µf output cap and a 4 ohm woofer:
f=1/(6.28)(.0082)(4)
=4.9Hz

And again, an 8 ohm woofer would cut that frequency in half.

Keeping this number low as possible is desirable to prevent weird phase shifts in the bass region.
 
Okay so an 8 ohm speaker and a 3300uf cap like I am using makes a 6Hz low freq roll off, so with my current situation I should be fine and not need to upgrade the caps if your recommendation of 5Hz is acceptable.

That's a handy formula, I will use that again, I'm sure! I wish I knew that when I restored my BA-90 and 1060, as I would have been able to do the work the first time around.

If I ever change to 4 ohm speakers though on my 1060 it might become a good investment to increase those caps.

Thanks again Echo!
 
Echo,
So, Use the 10,000uF, 75VDC Mallory cap for the power supply and it requires no augmentation. For the output caps use two 8,200uF, 50V caps with 1uF, 100V poly film caps connected in parallel and a 1k, 1W resistor connecting the negative side of the output cap to the chassis. Did I miss anything? Thanks Make that 2W.
 
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