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Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

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Vince1 said:
Yes, polyvinylalcohol. I've used several different Elvanols, from the partially hydrolyzed 50-42 to the fully hydrolyzed 71-30. The latter is commonly available and the one I focused on. I've tried a few cross linking agents in the mix as well.
In terms of anti-stats, you really don't need to specifically seek out CyatateSN, as there are many available quats with similar properties. For our use, were looking for quaternary ammonium compounds with long alkyl chains whether they be mono- or di-esters, whether it is a Nitrate or Chloride salt, or whether the chain is Cetyldimethylbenzyl, Distearyl dimethyl, Steramindopropyldimethyl, or even Hydroxyethyldimethyloxooctadecylaminopropyl ! It doesnt really matter so it's best to stick with easily obtainable quats that are commercially used in antistat preparations, like those recommended in the previously linked thread. Don't worry about the salt, it is diluted out in the working solution.
In the end, a good detergent scrub wash with Triton containing a small amount of anti-stat is so much more convenient, more cost-effective, and just as effective as any mask I experimented with that I have given up with the PVA method. Occasionally, an initial enzymatic step is necessary, but only on extremely dirty records.
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This thread has been extremely enlightening. Thanks for starting it!

Just to make sure that I'm barking up the right tree - is ACL Staticide 2005 Regular Heavy Duty Topical Anti-Stat a quternary ammonium compound?

One other question - would adding a small amount of the enzyme cleaner to a PVA glue formula be problematic? I'm heating the PVA/distilled water to about 90 deg celsius, so I would plan to add it as it's cooling maybe 10 ml of solution per 500ml of pva mask - I'd take 10 ml of the ISO out of the solution (40ml instead of 50ml) to keep the volume the same. Would the enzyme solution cause a change in pH, or would the viscosity or the chemistry of the PVA/alcohol/surfactant/antistat solution render the enzymes ineffective?

Thanks again
 
soumac said:
ust to make sure that I'm barking up the right tree - is ACL Staticide 2005 Regular Heavy Duty Topical Anti-Stat a quternary ammonium compound?
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Per the MSD sheet I found, it is Cyastat SN by another name, so definitely a quat, just not a simple tetra alkyl quat. If you found the ACL web site, you can see it comes in different concentrations which were not clear from the MSD sheet, I found elsewhere.
RE PVA. Are you speaking of Polyvinyl acetate(PVA) or Poly vinyl alcohol (PVOH) to differentiate? Re any effect on enzymatic cleaners, not my expertise.
 
njmpmcc: Very interested to hear your Tergitol vs. Scrubbing bubbles comparisons when complete. How are you drying your records? I'd experiment with adding a little antistat to your Triton scrub to see if that helps with the pops.
The glycerol helps keep the PVA mask flexible, facilitating peel-off. The cocoamidopropyl reagent should be fine as an antistat though I have not used it (this reagent is very common in conditioners). It does have the advantage in that you can buy stock solutions of it (some solid antistats are a bitch to dissolve). Tips? I can tell you that if you have problems using a double-boiler to dissolve the Elvanol, use a microwave in short 30 second spurts. It works great. Make sure everything is already mixed in though: adding anything (cold glycerol or water) to hot Elvanol will cause clumps.

Sumac: I doubt the enzymes would have much activity under those conditions. They work in detergent (in fact are included in commercial cleaners) but don't like the PVA or alcohols. They need water for catalytic activity and the PVA film dries very fast. Also, you run the risk of depositing these proteins on the record surface. If you need enzymatic treatment, do it before the mask. As njmpmcc stated, the ACL antistat is fine, just be mindful of the final concentrations used...you don't need much.
 
For some reason I've stopped getting notifications to this thread. So this post is in the hope that it'll kick start that process again.
 
Vince1 said:
njmpmcc: Very interested to hear your Tergitol vs. Scrubbing bubbles comparisons when complete. How are you drying your records? I'd experiment with adding a little antistat to your Triton scrub to see if that helps with the pops.
The glycerol helps keep the PVA mask flexible, facilitating peel-off. The cocoamidopropyl reagent should be fine as an antistat though I have not used it (this reagent is very common in conditioners). It does have the advantage in that you can buy stock solutions of it (some solid antistats are a bitch to dissolve). Tips? I can tell you that if you have problems using a double-boiler to dissolve the Elvanol, use a microwave in short 30 second spurts. It works great. Make sure everything is already mixed in though: adding anything (cold glycerol or water) to hot Elvanol will cause clumps.

Sumac: I doubt the enzymes would have much activity under those conditions. They work in detergent (in fact are included in commercial cleaners) but don't like the PVA or alcohols. They need water for catalytic activity and the PVA film dries very fast. Also, you run the risk of depositing these proteins on the record surface. If you need enzymatic treatment, do it before the mask. As njmpmcc stated, the ACL antistat is fine, just be mindful of the final concentrations used...you don't need much.
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If I was looking to add ISO to the Elvanol, I assume that I shouldn't add before heating - Reg Williamson, in his original recipe, suggested that the alcohol be added when the solution was warm - what temperature would you recommend letting the Elvanol cool to prior to adding ISO (500 ml of the solution calls for 50 ml of ISO), or can I add it prior to heating to 90 - 95 deg C?
 
I bought a bottle of Ilford Washaid to use as the surficant for a cleaning mixture. I have only used it on a couple so far. Wondering how this stuff differs from the Triton x100? Are there other chemicals in a photo wash that are not good for cleaning records?
 
njmpmcc said:
Per the MSD sheet I found, it is Cyastat SN by another name, so definitely a quat, just not a simple tetra alkyl quat. If you found the ACL web site, you can see it comes in different concentrations which were not clear from the MSD sheet, I found elsewhere.
RE PVA. Are you speaking of Polyvinyl acetate(PVA) or Poly vinyl alcohol (PVOH) to differentiate? Re any effect on enzymatic cleaners, not my expertise.
Click to expand...

I'm using Elvanol - the Reg Williamson recipe, more or less... Thanks for helping out with the info on the ACL - Cyastat SN is difficult to obtain in small quantities, but the ACL Staticide can be purchased by the quart on Amazon.... :banana:
 
I know Dawn is not good, but what about a plant based, fragrance and SLS free dish soap? Still have stuff that will sit on the record if you use a drop or two in distilled water?
 
Catcher10 said:
Seems like I would need a "permit" to buy this stuff......Triton X-100, Nonidet NP-40 and Tergitols :).....I am interested in the best way to clean vinyl, seems regardless of what solution you use, you have to pull a vacuum to get the best results....I struggle knowing I have to spend $600 for one of these machines.
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No permit required. Dilute properly before use and store tightly sealed in refrigerator to inhibit mold growth. Machines, I built a hand operated one for well under $25. Craft store blank wooden clock face (has predrilled hole dead center), some cork applied and stuck on, attached to a lazy Susan hardware for cabinet (any home improvement store for $5 or less) all of it mounted on 1" thick pine as a base. I ran a 1/4" X20 X 1.5" long screw and bought a compression clamp. LP slides over screw like a spindle, clamp holds down LP. I spin by hand and use a velvet lined vacuum attachment. Oh, yea I also bough (most expensive part) a 4.5" dia 1/4" thick lucite disk with a center hole drilled. This is my label protector as well as extra surface area for clamping down LP.
 
Post #86 says not to refrigerate:
Vince1 said:
You'd neve get it to dissolve and hydrate properly. You have to mix it slowly first with a very small amount of water. You'll see when you start working with it. Also, don't refrigerate your stock solution....it will cloud up.
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I also seem to recall reading elsewhere in the thread that if you do refrigerate and it gets cloudy to just run the bottle under some warm water and it should clear up.
 
dfunghi said:
No permit required. Dilute properly before use and store tightly sealed in refrigerator to inhibit mold growth. Machines, I built a hand operated one for well under $25. Craft store blank wooden clock face (has predrilled hole dead center), some cork applied and stuck on, attached to a lazy Susan hardware for cabinet (any home improvement store for $5 or less) all of it mounted on 1" thick pine as a base. I ran a 1/4" X20 X 1.5" long screw and bought a compression clamp. LP slides over screw like a spindle, clamp holds down LP. I spin by hand and use a velvet lined vacuum attachment. Oh, yea I also bough (most expensive part) a 4.5" dia 1/4" thick lucite disk with a center hole drilled. This is my label protector as well as extra surface area for clamping down LP.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Pictures would be cool if possible
 
I have been attempting to analyze this post in order to extract a cleaning formula that works and is low cost. I am a carpenter by trade and find it difficult to follow the chemistry jargon. I had ordered the Triton X100 500ml and 99.9% pure iso alcohol. What is the simple breakdown of this formula? I currently use Nitty Gritty Mini Pro with Pure2 at a cost of $80. a gallon, which works OK, but is quite costly. I am also interested in the enzyme mix as I have several albums that have mold spots that I cannot seem to clean up. Not sure if the vinyl has been permanently damaged and I am wasting my time. I appreciate all the research and hard work that everyone has put in to this endeavor. Thanks!
 
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