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Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

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onwardjames said:
I just showed the wife how wetting the record causes the water to quickly slide right off. Then I applied with a paint pad the cleaning solution. It never slid off, and you can see little grit particles. The rainbow patina I see with a fresh gluing is also prominent.

She said "That record looks SOAKED!" when I showed her what the Triton does (breaks up water surface tension).

Should have done this years ago. OH, did I need to add some IPA to the triton mix? I can't remember, seems someone mentioned it. I have 91%, highest I could find around here.
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Cool James! I'm trying to do the math here on paper as I like to make my main mix of Alcohol and distilled water in the gallon jug of water. So I take out 8 oz of water then add 8 oz of 91% alcohol although I went ahead and ordered the 99% when I ordered my Triton. This is less than the 10:1 Vince says to stay below so I should be good there!

So then I use a 9 oz ketchup bottle to use on the records so I'm trying to do the math of how many drops of the Triton I need in my bottle for a .01 to .05% mix. Should be something like .1 to .4 oz. So how many drops is that argg gonna have to google that haha! I only play a chemist on TV! I think I'll get there eventually with everyone's help! Thanks Everyone! :banana:
 
Vince said the margin for the detergent (triton) was far more forgiving, as long as the distilled rinse removed all the residue. I'd add 4 or 5 drops to that ketchup bottle from the 10 to 1 supply, and call it good.

Vince, feel free to fact-check us on this.
 
onwardjames said:
I just showed the wife how wetting the record causes the water to quickly slide right off. Then I applied with a paint pad the cleaning solution. It never slid off, and you can see little grit particles. The rainbow patina I see with a fresh gluing is also prominent.

She said "That record looks SOAKED!" when I showed her what the Triton does (breaks up water surface tension).

Should have done this years ago. OH, did I need to add some IPA to the triton mix? I can't remember, seems someone mentioned it. I have 91%, highest I could find around here.
Click to expand...

So the Triton eventually blends with the water OK?
 
sorry I wasn't around while you were mixing your Triton, but I'm on the road, picking up some components I bought for a 60's era system I'm putting together. James, you got it right, what you are experiencing is typical, and what I was warning about earlier. Triton takes awhile to dissolve in water. As you did, you mix it like a paste first, and gradually add water until you reach 10%, which is about the limit where it will completely solubilize. You may have to let it sit overnight. The reason why is that the detergent has a long oily tail that doesn't like water. In the presence of water, the molecules organize into micro droplets (micelles) that have the oily tails in the middle and the polar heads towards the water. This is what makes it effective in wetting and lifting oils from the record surface and their formation takes time. Some detergents have smaller tails and mix more easily (some low Tergitols for example). It's worth the time though as you are making a stock solution you can use for awhile. You can warm the 10% mixture under hot water in the sink or in a bowl to make things go faster. However, never add the concentrated detergent to hot water as it will take forever to go in. Also, never add a drop of the concentrate to a large volume of water as it will also take forever. Never shake it either as it foams. Gradual addition of water is the way to go. Instead of water, you can use water plus Isopropanol (5-10%) and it will go faster. The alcohol also aids in cleaning and helps preserve the solution.
 
Thanks for all of the info that you have been providing in this thread Vince.

I myself am surprised by the fact that we have talked record cleaning to death here on AK, yet here in this thread it seems like we are just now getting to the bottom of the groove, so to speak.
 
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Actually, the classic isopropanol/distilled water/drop of detergent works just fine, as vinyl1 said at the start. After all, 99.9% of record cleaning uses this mix as a base, including most commercial ones. The chances are a lot of your pre-owned records have been cleaned with this anyway. This thread is about an interesting variant whose advantage is that it is said to reduce static.

Unless that is a problem, I'd suggest the traditional method is more than adequate.
 
I think it´s necessary to show how different chemicals will alter the surface. If we say that some will etch the surface we must also be able to show if this happens in reality. If we e.g. say that white glue will have a negative effect, we must also show it has a negative effect, or else it really is just a speculation.
 
grottyash said:
Actually, the classic isopropanol/distilled water/drop of detergent works just fine, as vinyl1 said at the start. After all, 99.9% of record cleaning uses this mix as a base, including most commercial ones. The chances are a lot of your pre-owned records have been cleaned with this anyway. This thread is about an interesting variant whose advantage is that it is said to reduce static.

Unless that is a problem, I'd suggest the traditional method is more than adequate.
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There's nothing new about the use of Triton or Tergitol surfactants as a recipe in DIY record cleaning fluids. This practice dates back at least 30 years ..,. probably more.
 
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All I know is that my 10 to 1 is completely blended now (it did take overnight, vince, you were right) and I'm enjoying the very quick results this gives me. I have washed a battered UFO album, a couple of Wings albums that were total shyte (and come away at least listenable) and I'm searching for some tiny bottles to put this pint of Triton in and perhaps sell on bartertown in 1 oz servings.

I mean, honestly, this 10 to 1 will jar will last me forever. It only takes, what, 5 drops or so in a cup of water?? Jeez, I'll NEVER use this much.

And the static concerns I once had sure seem gone now. The records don't have the charge that I got with the glue method and even dry brushing.

When you have silverfish turds and other unmentionables, and it is not a valuable nor expensive copy and you just want to transfer it?? Yeah, I'll still glue.

But I'm firmly in the tergitol camp now.
 
I'm thinking of doing something similar Tim. I'm looking for some very small bottles for the 10:1 solution that I will be able to ship with the wand in the future.
 
Tell ya what, hi*ball, check your local walgreens. They usually have little bottles in the makeup section.

If you wish, we can work out some type of deal on half this pint I have. I really don't see any reason to have so much.

PM incoming.
 
Hey Vince,

As some others out there have probably tried in the past, I have been using a mixture of 10 parts distilled water, 2 parts white vinegar, and 1 part IPA in a spray bottle that mists. I wipe with a soft terrycloth towel in circular and then straight around the grooves. Then I rinse with the distilled water, wiping and drying in the same fashion. The records come out looking and sounding great. What do you think of this concoction and should I be concerned about using white vinegar on vinyl? Thanks for all the great information also!
 
DAVRON: Consumer White Vinegar is acetic acid, but dilute (about 4-7%) with a pH around 2.5. As acids go, acetic is not very strong so I don't know whether it etches at the concentration you are using (less than 1%) but it really isn't necessary if you just use a detergent (detergents are better at cleaning than any vinegar).

GUSTEN: I couldn't agree more, demonstration is key. Many experiments with chemicals on PVC have been done so we can benefit from this research. I have not personally done any experiments with the low pH consumer products (like jet dry or others mentioned here) as it didn't occur to me to ever put these on my records. However, I have certainly seen what acids do to vinyl. I have also personally done experiments measuring static charge on records with different treatments. I'll dig up the photos an post them here as the results from these studies were the basis for my avoiding SDS.

JAMES: I'm glad it is working out for you! Thanks for continuing to post your experiences. I divided up my 100% stock into a bunch of test tubes and gave much away to friends and family. All three of my kids spin vinyl, one for a part-time living.
 
My Triton was delivered late in the afternoon and was outside all night and it's cold here so it was frozen solid. Hope it won't hurt it! I'm ready to try the new mix!
 
That was a lot easier than I thought. I think the ISO in the water mix helped in the breakdown of the Triton. I stirred it for about a 5 minutes while adding more and more of the mix till 10:1 was reached.

Added a splash to the ketchup bottle new mix and it spreads on the record like butter. The paint pad just glides over the surface. I finish with a distilled water rinse and vacuum wand dry.

Cleaning and spinning now, will see if I get any lint on the dust buster. I was getting some every now and again which is why I wanted to try this new formula.

Thanks for sharing Vince and for all the tips from those who have chimed in!
:beerchug:
 
UPS delivered my 100ml bottle Triton X-100 today and I will be making a new batch of cleaner this weekend. I've got some new-to-me used records that will be the first in line for a wash. Thanks to Vince for sharing the chemistry!
 
Vince1, I am reading with interest about your results. I am wondering is the Triton-100 special as compared to the ones I have listed? I have tried all 4 I have listed below. The Triton-114 was suggested by Fremer, the S-3 + S-9 by the Canadian Conservation Library and the S-7 by the US Library of Congress. Just wondering if I should try the Triton-100 or are the differences minor enough to overlook?
Triton-114
Tergitol 15-S-3
Tergitol 15-S-7
Tergitol 15-S-9
 
Just received my SWAN 99% Isopropyl Alcohol through the mail yesterday .... could not find it locally. Will make a new batch of cleaner over the Thanksgiving weekend.

I'm using Nonionic Surfactant NP-6 High Purity (Tergitol)

I'm not making a stock base ... like Triton ... just adding the NP6 ... .0002 (one eye drop) per 8 oz. Stirring in a beaker (250ml) & then storing in Lab wash bottle. The new formula I will be using is ...

10% ISO (99%)
90% Aquafina (most folks just use distilled water)
.0002 NP6

I was getting a good spread w/ my old home brew ... but I had to use two drops Kodak Photo Flo (per 8 oz) to get the same "total coverage type" results.

Think I will like this new recipe ... it's 90% water & 10% ISO. IMHO ... secret to a good home brew is as few ingredients (in addition to water) as possible.
 
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