Rek-O-Kut Turntables - ROK

[fiddlefye]

I'm wondering if anyone can suggest the best current source for an new idler wheel for the B-12H? I had ordered one a couple of years ago and then the guy seemed to have suddenly stopped production. I keep reading about this or that one that cannot be brought into adjustment to run at the correct speed. One of the aluminum ones with the "tire" would be cool...

 

[BillWojo]

Check with @adnick, Andy has a guy..........

BillWojo

 

[SidSmith]

I'm wondering if anyone can suggest the best current source for an new idler wheel for the B-12H? I had ordered one a couple of years ago and then the guy seemed to have suddenly stopped production. I keep reading about this or that one that cannot be brought into adjustment to run at the correct speed. One of the aluminum ones with the "tire" would be cool...

You have a couple on that auction site. You also have Serge Karmadon that can make one for you if you have the specs. He is renown for making quality products at good prices.

 

[Sam Cogley]

Check with @adnick, Andy has a guy..........

BillWojo

Exactly this.

 

[HBTim]

Here's my contribution to the thread. I purchased a nice K-33H from @HBTim in February 2020. I decided to re finish the plinth which led me down a long and painful road due to my lack of finishing skills. Long story short, I ended up re-veneering three times because I kept screwing up. I learned a lot of what to do and what NOT to do and the third time turned out to be the charm. The veneer is Bubinga with three coats of AquaSeal grain filler and three wipe-on coats of Arm-R-Seal gloss topcoat. I spent a lot of time sanding and polishing the platter and cleaning up all the other bits. I still haven't even plugged it in and am waiting for the specified SAE 20 motor oil for the platter bearing and shaft. I also need to install and align a cartridge and install the belt after I get the platter bearing and shaft oiled.

It took a long time and LOTS of effort to get this TT finished but I think it came out pretty good:


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Thanks for looking!
Joe

Absolutely stunning bud. So glad it got in your hands. Honored to be a part of it.

 

[limberpine]

Couple questions:

If I was to look for a Pabst or Ashland motor for my T-43, what are the part numbers that I should be looking for?

And besides maintenance, are there any other performance benefits of those motors over the Borg Death Cube?

Also, I recently ordered some new idler wheels for mine from this ebay seller: https://www.ebay.com/usr/laherbau

I would certainly recommend them! They are very well built!

 

[adnick]

Couple questions:

If I was to look for a Pabst or Ashland motor for my T-43, what are the part numbers that I should be looking for?

And besides maintenance, are there any other performance benefits of those motors over the Borg Death Cube?

Also, I recently ordered some new idler wheels for mine from this ebay seller: https://www.ebay.com/usr/laherbau

I would certainly recommend them! They are very well built!

There’s certainly a reason those idlers are so good


Assuming you have never compared the 2 motors side by side? The Ashland was used in the very top of the line equipment that required a motor of it’s type, not just by ROK. Runs quieter, less vibration, comes up to speed better, holds speed over time more consistently, and is heavy

No clue about part numbers other than what’s listed by ROK in the manual…..

Looking forward to seeing your table.

VR
Andy

 

[limberpine]

There’s certainly a reason those idlers are so good


Assuming you have never compared the 2 motors side by side? The Ashland was used in the very top of the line equipment that required a motor of it’s type, not just by ROK. Runs quieter, less vibration, comes up to speed better, holds speed over time more consistently, and is heavy

No clue about part numbers other than what’s listed by ROK in the manual…..

Looking forward to seeing your table.

VR
Andy

I have not heard the motors side by side, but thought I would ask about the potential benefits to see if its worth pursuing.

Did they put the same motor on other models? I might be more apt to come across a beat up table with a motor than just the motor itself I'm thinking.

Here are some pics.

 

[adnick]

I have not heard the motors side by side, but thought I would ask about the potential benefits to see if its worth pursuing.

Did they put the same motor on other models? I might be more apt to come across a beat up table with a motor than just the motor itself I'm thinking.

Here are some pics.

Very nice looks like someone added the toggle power switch?

The Ashland was only used on the Rondine Deluxe and above on ROKs

Andy

 

[limberpine]

Very nice looks like someone added the toggle power switch?

The Ashland was only used on the Rondine Deluxe and above on ROKs

Andy

Thanks! Its sounds fantastic! Way better than my Systemdek. Ima put a Denon 103 MC cart on it next year to see how that sounds.

Yes, the person I bought it from added the toggle switch and had the plinth custom made.

I'll have to look at the manual to find out more info on the Ashland Motor to keep and eye out for one.

 

[adnick]

Thanks! Its sounds fantastic! Way better than my Systemdek. Ima put a Denon 103 MC cart on it next year to see how that sounds.

Yes, the person I bought it from added the toggle switch and had the inth custom made.

I'll have to look at the manual to find out more info on the Ashland Motor to keep and eye out for one.

You may have these already, 2 of the pages are from the ROK manual he others are from a flyer, I’ll post for general consumption:

 

[k600r]

I'll post some new pics of my Rondine Jr, fresh Cardas wire for the Pickering tonearm. I have the owners manual I'll scan and post in the next week or so. In the meantime, here is a good AK thread:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106700&highlight=rek-o-kut+b-12h

Hi,
Wondering if your familiar setting the speeds with the strobe disk. I ant seem to get it right but I got be reading the strobe wrong. At help would be appreciated.

 

[adnick]

Thanks! Its sounds fantastic! Way better than my Systemdek. Ima put a Denon 103 MC cart on it next year to see how that sounds.

Yes, the person I bought it from added the toggle switch and had the plinth custom made.

I'll have to look at the manual to find out more info on the Ashland Motor to keep and eye out for one.

Had intended to mention that you could put a pilot light in the toggle switch hole and reconnect the original if it’s still there? Certainly not required, but I’m very fond of the original knob/switch combo, it’s a clever design.

Have seen the big Ashland’s for sale on eBay on occasion…

VR
Andy

 

[SidSmith]

Couple questions:

If I was to look for a Pabst or Ashland motor for my T-43, what are the part numbers that I should be looking for?

And besides maintenance, are there any other performance benefits of those motors over the Borg Death Cube?

Also, I recently ordered some new idler wheels for mine from this ebay seller: https://www.ebay.com/usr/laherbau

I would certainly recommend them! They are very well built!

If you read it here, you will notice that the Ashland motor made the B12H 6dB quieter than the B12. Other parameters seems identical between these models.

The Borg Death Cube seems a 4 poles motor. The Ashland is a 24 poles motor.

The difference in price between the B12 and the B12H is 45$. Add 5$, and the Ashland motor has the same price has a L-34 !

To me the Ashland motor, when cleaned with a ceramic ball bearing, is very quiet. Quieter in fact than that of my Lenco L75 motor.

To me, what contributed the most to the noise in the B12 is it's Idler wheel. A quiet Idler is essential to appreciate these turntable.

 

[adnick]

Great info, and 6db is huge in signal to noise ratios….many people are focused on W&F but if W&F is below the audible threshold, which most modern tables are, it’s S/N that makes or breaks the listening experience.

With new mounts, Delrin idler and proper plinth, the S/N on these tables is greatly increased.

My recent experience with the Russco Studio Pro B suggests that we may be able to increase S/N even more with the addition of a delrin “pad” in the platter shaft well. The addition of a delrin pad to the Russco was immediately quieter, didn’t need an oscilloscope to see the difference it was audible to the human ear


VR
Andy

 

[SidSmith]

Great info, and 6db is huge in signal to noise ratios….many people are focused on W&F but if W&F is below the audible threshold, which most modern tables are, it’s S/N that makes or breaks the listening experience.

With new mounts, Delrin idler and proper plinth, the S/N on these tables is greatly increased.

My recent experience with the Russco Studio Pro B suggests that we may be able to increase S/N even more with the addition of a delrin “pad” in the platter shaft well. The addition of a delrin pad to the Russco was immediately quieter, didn’t need an oscilloscope to see the difference it was audible to the human ear


VR
Andy

The Bearing well will be a bit more difficult to modify!

For me the biggest difference was the idler. A precision-made Idler, Silicon o-ring, teflon washer lubbed with Lithium white grease was the biggest improvement.

 

[BillWojo]

@SidSmith, can you post a picture of the bearing well and tell me more about the bearing design? Does the spindle have a ball on the end or is it flat? What is at the bottom of the bearing well? Does it use a set screw to hold a ball or thrust pad?
Russco used two different bearing designs. One used a ball at the end of the shaft and a ball set into a setscrew coming up from the bottom of the bearing well. The other design used the same bearing well design but had a flat bottomed spindle. Neither is a good design in my opinion, steel on steel is an efficient transmitter of vibration. Using a new setscrew of brass, I machined a pocket in the end of it and machined a Delrin plug to press in. Now the spindle, either with a ball or a flat bottom is spinning against a very slippery plastic and the Delrin being much less dense that steel acts as a barrier preventing most of the vibration from passing through.
I had been tossing this idea around in my head, lot's of empty room in there, and made a few up. Andy was the first to test it and he was surprised at the improvement.

BillWojo

 

[adnick]

@SidSmith, can you post a picture of the bearing well and tell me more about the bearing design? Does the spindle have a ball on the end or is it flat? What is at the bottom of the bearing well? Does it use a set screw to hold a ball or thrust pad?
Russco used two different bearing designs. One used a ball at the end of the shaft and a ball set into a setscrew coming up from the bottom of the bearing well. The other design used the same bearing well design but had a flat bottomed spindle. Neither is a good design in my opinion, steel on steel is an efficient transmitter of vibration. Using a new setscrew of brass, I machined a pocket in the end of it and machined a Delrin plug to press in. Now the spindle, either with a ball or a flat bottom is spinning against a very slippery plastic and the Delrin being much less dense that steel acts as a barrier preventing most of the vibration from passing through.
I had been tossing this idea around in my head, lot's of empty room in there, and made a few up. Andy was the first to test it and he was surprised at the improvement.

BillWojo

Bill

Both the Rondine Deluxe and the TR12H platter shafts are flat and the ball bearing is just floating, not sure what the bottom of the shaft well looks like internally, been planning to use some modeling clay to make a mold….

Just haven’t got around to it yet,

Andy

 

[BillWojo]

Hi Andy, sounds like they just drilled the casting and dropped a ball down in the point left by the drill. Since a ball should only make a tiny contact on the flat end of the spindle, what does the wear mark look like. Should only be a tiny speck at most. On the Russco tables it was a larger dot, that's because the ball is not perfectly centered on the shaft and is rotating around the top of the ball marking a small circle on the end of the spindle. I bet the ROK are no different.
That's were the flat Delrin bearing pad shines, it can be a few thousands or more off center and isn't going to make a difference. The exact center of the spindle flat will find it's own center on the pad. Lot's of loading area, as long as it's kept wet with oil should last dam near forever.
I doubt they left a lot of material in the bottom of the well to drill and tap for a setscrew. Probably need to machine a new part to replace the casting. Might be a worth while endeavor for someone building a super deluxe ROK.

BillWojo

 

[adnick]

Hi Andy, sounds like they just drilled the casting and dropped a ball down in the point left by the drill. Since a ball should only make a tiny contact on the flat end of the spindle, what does the wear mark look like. Should only be a tiny speck at most. On the Russco tables it was a larger dot, that's because the ball is not perfectly centered on the shaft and is rotating around the top of the ball marking a small circle on the end of the spindle. I bet the ROK are no different.
That's were the flat Delrin bearing pad shines, it can be a few thousands or more off center and isn't going to make a difference. The exact center of the spindle flat will find it's own center on the pad. Lot's of loading area, as long as it's kept wet with oil should last dam near forever.
I doubt they left a lot of material in the bottom of the well to drill and tap for a setscrew. Probably need to machine a new part to replace the casting. Might be a worth while endeavor for someone building a super deluxe ROK.

BillWojo

That’s an interesting idea, just my kind of project Your concept sounds like the way it should be done…

However, it might be possible to conform (machine) a delrin pad to fit the bottom of the shaft, if it was size to the inner diameter and pinnacled it would function?