ferninando
Lunatic Member
someone please define for me the meaning of "single ended" or SE as its often called. Not mentioned in RCA tube mnls.
Thanks.
Thanks.
SE define
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I assume that you mean single ended in the context of amplifier output topology?
An output tube in a single ended amplifier will handle the job of amplifying the entire signal. Some topologies parallel single ended output devices and are called "parallel single ended" amplifiers. These may have two (or more) tubes per output channel, but are not to be confused with "push-pull" or differential amplifiers, which have a phase splitter in them. In that case, each output device amplifies half of the signal (the division being done in the phase splitting stage) and each amplified half get's recombined in the output transformer of the amplifier. Push-pull outputs can also be put in parallel.
An output tube in a single ended amplifier will handle the job of amplifying the entire signal. Some topologies parallel single ended output devices and are called "parallel single ended" amplifiers. These may have two (or more) tubes per output channel, but are not to be confused with "push-pull" or differential amplifiers, which have a phase splitter in them. In that case, each output device amplifies half of the signal (the division being done in the phase splitting stage) and each amplified half get's recombined in the output transformer of the amplifier. Push-pull outputs can also be put in parallel.
ferninando
Lunatic Member
is SE better than PP? fidelity wise? Or each has own bennys.? A schematic representation would be nice, but not necessary.
SE circuits are simpler and have less power, generally. If you can be content with half a dozen watts in a normal listening session, there are good options here. If you need a dozen watts or more, SE amps can start to get on the more expensive side.
PP circuits are more complex, with the addition of a phase splitter. They are often a first introduction to tube amplification, as they are usually more powerful and somewhat more common.
There are many different subspecies of each SE and PP topology. It would be impossible to say that one definitively sounds better than the other, especially in all situations.
After playing with tubes for a while, I've decided that you really need a pair of efficient speakers that you enjoy. Then you can sample a wide range of amplification and not be limited by minimum power considerations.
PP circuits are more complex, with the addition of a phase splitter. They are often a first introduction to tube amplification, as they are usually more powerful and somewhat more common.
There are many different subspecies of each SE and PP topology. It would be impossible to say that one definitively sounds better than the other, especially in all situations.
After playing with tubes for a while, I've decided that you really need a pair of efficient speakers that you enjoy. Then you can sample a wide range of amplification and not be limited by minimum power considerations.
ferninando
Lunatic Member
OK. that sounds good. Something to look for in obtaining a tube amp or intg. amp. Lotta power is not of great importance as I v heard low pwr. , 5 watts sound good. And I got the spkr situation covered so thats no prob. Finding the rite amp is.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
jaymanaa
RIP 1961-2018
If you can live with 5 watts, then I would suggest SET (or triode strapped pentode). They are the simplest of all amps to build, and have a very low parts count. The first amp I ever built was a single ended 6CA7 triode strapped for about 6 watts, and it's still a favorite of mine. Once you hear single ended sound, it can be hard to do anything else. Of course everyone's ears like different things too.
mpholland
R.I.P. Michael Sheppard
Seems the most favored SE amps are also the least powerful. You can start simple and inexpensive as Jay has mentioned, but once you get "addicted" you will at some point probably venture into 2A3, 300B, 45 territory etc. Running in class A at pretty much the limits of the tube kind of shortens the life span of the tube over typical PP units also. My only point here is that you may want to keep a nice PP amp around for general listening, background music etc., because the tubes generally last longer. When you get into tubes that are 100.00 and up per pop you tend to use them just for your more critical listening sessions.
jaymanaa
RIP 1961-2018
Ha ha, sounds like someone else has been down the same road I have. It's a sickness man.
jaymanaa
RIP 1961-2018
or buy some WE 300Bs at 2k pr. and they'll last forever.:yes:
M Jarve
Audio Geek and NGE Freak
Almost all amps ARE single-ended. There is, however, Single-Ended Push-Pull, which is the configuration most amps use, and there is truly single-ended.
SEPP amps use two voltage rails connected to complimentary (or quasi-complementary) output devices which push or pull voltage through the speaker whose negative (-) side is usually referenced to chassis ground. One half of the gain/voltage devices pulls voltage, while the other half pushes voltage. This is called a class B amp. If one half and the other operate while the other half operates for more than 180º, but less than the full cycle of a sine wave, it is classified at class AB. If both halves operate throughout the entire sine wave, it is said to be a class A amp.
A truly single-ended amp, such as a SET or SEP, has a single output device (or more than one, operating somehow in parallel) and a single voltage rail with voltage referenced to ground, that conducts throughout 360º of the sine wave by necessity and therefore operates only in class A.
The only other common configuration seen in amps is parallel push-pull. The voltage through the output device is not referenced to ground, but rather referenced to another set of output devices operating 180º out of phase with the other set. This is commonly known as a bridged amp. Some amps operate this way all the time and cannot be "unbridged".
SEPP amps use two voltage rails connected to complimentary (or quasi-complementary) output devices which push or pull voltage through the speaker whose negative (-) side is usually referenced to chassis ground. One half of the gain/voltage devices pulls voltage, while the other half pushes voltage. This is called a class B amp. If one half and the other operate while the other half operates for more than 180º, but less than the full cycle of a sine wave, it is classified at class AB. If both halves operate throughout the entire sine wave, it is said to be a class A amp.
A truly single-ended amp, such as a SET or SEP, has a single output device (or more than one, operating somehow in parallel) and a single voltage rail with voltage referenced to ground, that conducts throughout 360º of the sine wave by necessity and therefore operates only in class A.
The only other common configuration seen in amps is parallel push-pull. The voltage through the output device is not referenced to ground, but rather referenced to another set of output devices operating 180º out of phase with the other set. This is commonly known as a bridged amp. Some amps operate this way all the time and cannot be "unbridged".
ferninando
Lunatic Member
simple and inexpensive is my forte'. Not really but simple is often better. Start talking
2A3, 300B, and 45 and Im lost and 100 buck tubes I dont think so. But I get the picture. Probably buying a console pull or buying something new will be what I do altho new stuff is mucho dinnero and all comes form china with lotta shipping. Nothing against the china amps. I read all the AK blurbs and sounds like they make good stuff, just cost alot.
OPPS, looks like more input as I was typing.
Great, all helpful info for me to digest. thanks.
2A3, 300B, and 45 and Im lost and 100 buck tubes I dont think so. But I get the picture. Probably buying a console pull or buying something new will be what I do altho new stuff is mucho dinnero and all comes form china with lotta shipping. Nothing against the china amps. I read all the AK blurbs and sounds like they make good stuff, just cost alot.
OPPS, looks like more input as I was typing.
Great, all helpful info for me to digest. thanks.
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dshoaf
That high voltage buzz
One thing not mentioned yet about any tube amp - Single Ended or Push-Pull: the realy magic is in the output transformer.
You can get SE with an old console pull but the transformers were built for economy and not the highest fidelity. Yes, you can get decent audio out of them _but_ not the highest of high fidelity, IMHO.
Speak with the designers of SE gear such as Cary Audio and you'll see that a large part of their parts cost is in the output transformers.
I'd not obsess over which way to go as both SE and PP are both decent when engineered correctly with good parts. As I see some of our posters have expereinced, Single Ended designs are just different approaches to the same end.
Cheers,
David
You can get SE with an old console pull but the transformers were built for economy and not the highest fidelity. Yes, you can get decent audio out of them _but_ not the highest of high fidelity, IMHO.
Speak with the designers of SE gear such as Cary Audio and you'll see that a large part of their parts cost is in the output transformers.
I'd not obsess over which way to go as both SE and PP are both decent when engineered correctly with good parts. As I see some of our posters have expereinced, Single Ended designs are just different approaches to the same end.
Cheers,
David
mpholland
R.I.P. Michael Sheppard
Ha ha, sounds like someone else has been down the same road I have. It's a sickness man.
And with these I plan to go down that road again as soon as I get some new OPT's (and get the Craftsmens done first of course).
To the OP. I would suggest if you are SERIOUSLY looking to venture down the tube path to become a subscriber. There are some perks such as forum access to gear being offered from subscribers to subscribers at prices you are not likely to find on auction sites and other hi-fi sites. The best 25 bucks I spend every year.
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mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
Purty good 'splanation from a guitar amp perspective:
http://www.aikenamps.com/SingleEnded.htm
You haven't asked about amplifier operating classes yet, but you probably will!
This might be of interest:
http://sound.westhost.com/class-a.htm
I like the guy's site; lots of interesting things there, so here's the main article link fyi and fwiw:
http://sound.westhost.com/articles.htm
http://www.aikenamps.com/SingleEnded.htm
You haven't asked about amplifier operating classes yet, but you probably will!
This might be of interest:
http://sound.westhost.com/class-a.htm
I like the guy's site; lots of interesting things there, so here's the main article link fyi and fwiw:
http://sound.westhost.com/articles.htm
I'll save you some time. if you haven't seen this thread, I went round and round on the 45 SET OPT choices awhile back.
And to oldhifiguy, take a look at the wiring on the underside of the aforementioned amp
It doesn't get much simpler than this.....
Thats a sweet set of 45's!
I'll save you some time. if you haven't seen this thread, I went round and round on the 45 SET OPT choices awhile back.
And to oldhifiguy, take a look at the wiring on the underside of the aforementioned amp
It doesn't get much simpler than this.....
Damn...that's one beautiful amplifier!!! :drool:
