SHURE V15 TYPE V MR vs EMPIRE 2000E/III

[rocknroll1]

first of all will the shure work on my empire 698 TT. Anybody able to compare these 2. I listen mainly to classic rock.

 

[Jeff K]

Except for the Ultra, most folks would say the V15 VMR was the pinnacle of Shure cartridges. The Empire was a middle of the line cart. I would have to say it competed with Shures like the M91ed and M95.

So, in a compatible arm, it's no contest, imo. I would think that with the damping brush the Shure would work well if the arm is in good working order.

 

[bimasta]

Anybody able to compare these 2?

Yes. Here's a direct comparison, on the same tonearm/turntable in the same system playing the same records.

And it's a funny coincidence — I just posted this about the Shure 10 minutes ago, and your question was the very next post...

"The V-15VMR was my first cartridge back in 1982 or thereabouts, in a SME 3009 II on a Thorens 125. Nice system. The Shure had just come out, the latest/greatest, and I thought it was "state of the art" because people said so. Then a friend gave me a Grace F9E and a Supex MC to try. Both of them annihilated the Shure: it was dull, boring and lifeless in comparison.

I have a V15-VMR now, and a V15-IVHE, in a drawer as backups. Not long ago I tried them out of curiosity, maybe I was missing something. The IV beat the V, because it sounds like music not just sound, but it's not so great either. They produce sound, not music."

And here's what I wrote here about the Empire about two months ago —

"I bought two NOS Empires 2000-series several years ago, while on a trip abroad. They have their original styli. I didn't try them until a month ago — neither has "broken in" yet, if we believe that it takes 20–40 hours for a cartridge to reach its best. So this brief review is "right out of the box": they're mint, as if I'd bought them and used them 40 years ago — but in fact they've been passively aging for 40 years, both in the same place and environmental conditions.

The 2000E/III so far is good. But it will need that break-in to transform it before it becomes one of my regulars. I have a spare turntable which is automatic and has a "Repeat" function — I may mount it on that and play it straight for a day or two to hasten the process.

The 2000Z blew my mind! I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It has all the audiophile-stuff we look for — detail, dynamics, coherence, ambience, soundstage, and deep deep bass — but it also sounds like all the musicians are on some amazing drugs. No other cartridge in my collection has that kind of energy.

I listen mostly to classical, jazz, and an eclectic variety of other music — but there's no reason a String Quartet can't take amazing drugs and plumb he depths of late Beethoven! (Except the law, of course.) Then I played some Bob Marley, Springsteen, etc — you want to jump up and dance."

Well, the 2000E/III has more time on it, and it's getting the same excitement I raved about.

Obviously I love the Empires, and I don't even like the Shures.

For Rock it's no contest, a no brainer.

But that's just my opinion. Others will disagree - but not if they could compare them...

 

[rocknroll1]

Yes. Here's a direct comparison, on the same tonearm/turntable in the same system playing the same records.

And it's a funny coincidence — I just posted this about the Shure 10 minutes ago, and your question was the very next post...

"The V-15VMR was my first cartridge back in 1982 or thereabouts, in a SME 3009 II on a Thorens 125. Nice system. The Shure had just come out, the latest/greatest, and I thought it was "state of the art" because people said so. Then a friend gave me a Grace F9E and a Supex MC to try. Both of them annihilated the Shure: it was dull, boring and lifeless in comparison.

I have a V15-VMR now, and a V15-IVHE, in a drawer as backups. Not long ago I tried them out of curiosity, maybe I was missing something. The IV beat the V, because it sounds like music not just sound, but it's not so great either. They produce sound, not music."

And here's what I wrote here about the Empire about two months ago —

"I bought two NOS Empires 2000-series several years ago, while on a trip abroad. They have their original styli. I didn't try them until a month ago — neither has "broken in" yet, if we believe that it takes 20–40 hours for a cartridge to reach its best. So this brief review is "right out of the box": they're mint, as if I'd bought them and used them 40 years ago — but in fact they've been passively aging for 40 years, both in the same place and environmental conditions.

The 2000E/III so far is good. But it will need that break-in to transform it before it becomes one of my regulars. I have a spare turntable which is automatic and has a "Repeat" function — I may mount it on that and play it straight for a day or two to hasten the process.

The 2000Z blew my mind! I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It has all the audiophile-stuff we look for — detail, dynamics, coherence, ambience, soundstage, and deep deep bass — but it also sounds like all the musicians are on some amazing drugs. No other cartridge in my collection has that kind of energy.

I listen mostly to classical, jazz, and an eclectic variety of other music — but there's no reason a String Quartet can't take amazing drugs and plumb he depths of late Beethoven! (Except the law, of course.) Then I played some Bob Marley, Springsteen, etc — you want to jump up and dance."

Well, the 2000E/III has more time on it, and it's getting the same excitement I raved about.

Obviously I love the Empires, and I don't even like the Shures.

For Rock it's no contest, a no brainer.

But that's just my opinion. Others will disagree - but not if they could compare them...

 

[rocknroll1]

I have the 2000e/III that I bought NOS and a few weeks ago I dropped the tone arm on to the plith. it collapsed the the stylus so I ordered the jico replacement stylus. Well tonight it just dropped out of the cart while playing an album. So I am thinking it also damaged the cart. It sounded fine up until it fell out. Thats why I am looking for something different. I also found the Z NOS.

 

[bimasta]

I also found the Z NOS.

You didn't mention the Z, only the E/III. Shame about the damage. I've done it myself many times. A terrible feeling.

Is there a reason you aren't using the 2000Z?

 

[rocknroll1]

You didn't mention the Z, only the E/III. Shame about the damage. I've done it myself many times. A terrible feeling.

Is there a reason you aren't using the 2000Z?

I don't know much about the Z. Heard it was nice but none of my current stylus from the e/III would fit it so I hear. I have 2 jico for the e/III one being the quad

 

[Russooll]

The Empire 2000z is one of the best fixed coil carts ever made as is the Shure V15's. Unlike the Shure though you can still get original styli. Gary at Voice of Music has some 2000t styli ,that are exactly the same as the 2000z, for less than $40. These styli have the small shank that fit your 2000z.

 

[Ilikevinyl]

The 2000Z blew my mind! I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It has all the audiophile-stuff we look for — detail, dynamics, coherence, ambience, soundstage, and deep deep bass — but it also sounds like all the musicians are on some amazing drugs. No other cartridge in my collection has that kind of energy.
..

I agree with your review of the 2000Z. I have my 2000Z mounted to a SME 3009 Improved arm, on a Thorens TD-160. This cartridge sounds just like my Denon DL-301 MKII! Big wide sound stage, rich and smooth sounding. Sounds great with every music genre.

 

[boreas]

I have the 2000e/III that I bought NOS and a few weeks ago I dropped the tone arm on to the plith. it collapsed the the stylus so I ordered the jico replacement stylus. Well tonight it just dropped out of the cart while playing an album. So I am thinking it also damaged the cart. It sounded fine up until it fell out. Thats why I am looking for something different. I also found the Z NOS.

You didn't put the 2000Z stylus in the 2000E/III body did you? The Z stylus has a smaller insertion tube than the E/III does.

John

 

[bimasta]

I don't know much about the Z. Heard it was nice...

Oh. When you wrote "I also found the Z NOS" I thought it meant you had one. My mistake...

 

[boreas]

Oh. When you wrote "I also found the Z NOS" I thought it meant you had one. My mistake...

I did too.

John

 

[bimasta]

Gary at Voice of Music has some 2000t styli ,that are exactly the same as the 2000z, for less than $40.

Great tip, Russooll (a .2x.7 tip) — I went to the site but couldn't find it, they're listed by stylus number, not cartridge model.

Which one is it?

 

[Russooll]

239-DET. He has a couple of colors to choose, I understand he is out of the blue, Just e-mail him your color choose and if he has it he will ship it. Needle Daddy also has the silver one, that's where I got mine, an it was genuine. AKA S915E

 

[Russooll]

Great tip, Russooll (a .2x.7 tip)

Gota love a great tip.

 

[Russooll]

By the way, Gary has it listed as a.3x.7 but it is a wrong listing. His site has great stylu info, but that is one of his few errors.

 

[ranch 22b]

I agree with your review of the 2000Z. I have my 2000Z mounted to a SME 3009 Improved arm, on a Thorens TD-160. This cartridge sounds just like my Denon DL-301 MKII! Big wide sound stage, rich and smooth sounding. Sounds great with every music genre.

That's high praise indeed.

What kind of effective mass on the tonearm does the 2000Z like?

 

[wualta]

Empire recommended a VTF of 1.0g, and the cartridge is a bit hefty by the standards of the mid-late '70s, so the lowest-mass arm you can find would be dandy. Not required, but recommended.

 

[bimasta]

Empire set the range .75–1.25. I normally use the mid-point of a given range, so the mm, mi or mc is centered in the field. I don't know the eff mass of my arm, not listed in the specs: it's a Mitsubishi linear tracker, short stainless steel arm of less-than-average diameter. Headshells vary from 6g to about 16g (for LOMCs), and I supposed the heavy lateral-moving base must be figured in somehow. Maybe IBM Watson could figure it out. The 2000Z seems very happy in a SME swiss-cheese h'shell.

I have the identical 3009, Ranch, but it's boxed-up, along with the Thorens 125, since getting the Mitsu 5 yrs ago — no skating, 0.1° tracking error, reduced IGD, and full-auto are just so convenient.

 

[bimasta]

39-DET. He has a couple of colors to choose, I understand he is out of the blue, Just e-mail him your color choose and if he has it he will ship it. Needle Daddy also has the silver one, that's where I got mine, an it was genuine. AKA S915E

Thanks. I contacted Daddy last week — nice to have unbiased confirmation from you.