Stanton681EEES
Addicted Member
What I'm asking is if you have a P mount adapter from a Shure cartridge would it fit an Audio Technica P mount body? Or the other way around the P mount from the AT would it fit the Shure body?
Silly Question: Are P Mount Adapters Universal?
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ETI_5000
Super Member
Yes, it was a standard designed by Technics, which probably would have become universal and replaced the old 1/2 inch mount Ortofon standard removable headshell, if CD's hadn't come along. All the cartridge manufacturers who used it made their cartridges and adaptors to Technics standards, so all P-mount cartridges, both MM and MC, should fit any P-mount tonearm or adaptor. The advantage is that it's just plug and play, and no wiring or alignment is required, once the adaptor or tonearm has been aligned correctly, which is done at the factory with tonearms. The disadvantage is that because it came along too late, there is a distinct lack of cartridges (in particular MC) available now, and no aftermarket tonearms that I know of. There was also some resistance from other turntable manufacturers, so the two Matsushita brands, JVC and Technics, were the only ones to take it up in a big way.
And just to expand, and answer your question directly, my Shure P-mount cartridge fits my AT adaptor (and of course, my AT cartridge fits it too)!
-Don
And just to expand, and answer your question directly, my Shure P-mount cartridge fits my AT adaptor (and of course, my AT cartridge fits it too)!
-Don
ETI_5000
Super Member
Actually, if you look up its history, it has been majority owned by Matsushita, since 1953. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JVC According to my turntable guides, which date from 1979-85, JVC was second behind Technics in take up of the P-mount, although as you say, not all their turntables used it, and very little was shared between JVC and Technics/Panasonic.
-Don
hakaplan
Needs professional help
Wow, sorry, Don, didn't know that about Matsushita.
lini
just me...
Oh, Howard - that completely ruins my good image of you! 
Nah, only joking.
Anyway, for all who didn't know about the relationship between Matsushita and JVC, this might also all of a sudden explain why Panasonic was the most important name besides the inventor JVC for VHS video recorders.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Nah, only joking.
Anyway, for all who didn't know about the relationship between Matsushita and JVC, this might also all of a sudden explain why Panasonic was the most important name besides the inventor JVC for VHS video recorders.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Stanton,
Although all P-mount adaptors SHOULD be the same, I have found that a couple of the newer ones I've purchased recently are not identical. A couple of my p-mount cartridges fit perfectly into an older Audio-Technica adaptor, but don't fit into a couple I bought recently. I had to do some "resizing" with needly files to get a proper fit.
Bob
Although all P-mount adaptors SHOULD be the same, I have found that a couple of the newer ones I've purchased recently are not identical. A couple of my p-mount cartridges fit perfectly into an older Audio-Technica adaptor, but don't fit into a couple I bought recently. I had to do some "resizing" with needly files to get a proper fit.
Bob
I've always believed T4P to be standardized, but was left scratching my head last week when a Technics headshell mounting screw refused to fit through the hole in a recently-acquired RXP3 cart. :scratch2:
A previous owner had glued it into it's Realistic adapter. I used diagonal pliers to cut the adapter away, destroying it, and scraped bits of glue from the cartridge base.
I never could see any glue inside the hole, yet the screw wouldn't fit through it.
I can only guess the glue must have caused the plastic to swell, decreasing the hole diameter.
Oh well, nothing a drill bit couln't fix. Not sure I used the T4P-standard bit size though, but it works
A previous owner had glued it into it's Realistic adapter. I used diagonal pliers to cut the adapter away, destroying it, and scraped bits of glue from the cartridge base.
I never could see any glue inside the hole, yet the screw wouldn't fit through it.
I can only guess the glue must have caused the plastic to swell, decreasing the hole diameter.
Oh well, nothing a drill bit couln't fix. Not sure I used the T4P-standard bit size though, but it works
Stanton681EEES
Addicted Member
Thanks guys the adapter is an AT and the cartridge is a Shure so I hope it works.
SA-708
Appalachian-American
I was playing around with my collection of p-mount cartridges and adapters this morning (which has expanded since November) and made some discoveries that reminded me of this thread. Specifically, I found some p-mount carts that are too tall to fit some p-mount adapters.
One dimension that does not seem to be part of the p-mount/T4P standard is the height of the cartridge body, and there is variation from maker to maker (but, at least within my collection, similarities between different models from the same maker). Since the distance from the mounting screw hole down to the stylus tip is fairly standard, the variation shows up in the distance from the mounting screw hole up to the top of the cartridge body.
In my collection of carts, from tallest to shortest, are Grado (Silver), Ortofon/Digitrac (TM, X1-MCP, 200NE), AudioTechnica (1x2 series and the newer boxy series) and Pickering/Stanton (TL-1, TLE, L720). The adapters in my collection are similar in height: Ortofon/Digitrac the tallest, then AT, and Pickering/Stanton the shortest. The Ortofon and Digitrac carts will fit into the AT adapters, but they are too tall for the Pickering/Stanton adapters. The AT carts I have will fit all three.
The Grado Silver didn't come with an adapter, and is too tall to fit into the other adapters I have. It comes within a millimeter to fitting in the Ortofon adapter, but I'd have to take a file to the raised lettering on the top before I could make if fit. I suspect that this is Grado's way of keeping people from using their p-mount cartridges on 1/2 inch mount arms.
I don't have any Shure p-mount carts nor adapters in my collection, so I can't speak to how they compare, size-wise, to the others.
I think the mount itself was exactly the same for all TP4s, but since they were actually meant to be used directly in tonearms, not in the adaptors, the actual upper cartridge body dimensions weren't specified, so not all adaptors work with all cartridges. And people lost the screws, and if the nut was not trapped, they lost the nuts too, and then just used anything lying around (and I don't mean to condemn them, since I'm one of them). Why they used such an oddly thin screw with an usual pitch is puzzling...
SA-708
Appalachian-American
That's pretty much what I was trying to say, in a nutshell. As usual, I got long-winded.
Two more observations:
1) When mounting a AT p-mount cartridge on a Dual 1237 (without adjustable arm height) last year, I tried out several adapters of different height in order to get the best vertical tracking angle match, and ended up using the shortest one (a Pickering). This is an advantage of having several different p-mount adapters on hand.
2) The adapter that comes with the Digitrac 200NE cartridges that have been discussed so much in this forum, are quite tall and will fit almost any p-mount cartridge. Don't just chuck it, if you buy a 200NE for the stylus; hang on to it or pass it along.
ETI_5000
Super Member
Yes, that makes sense. They should fit all T4P tonearms. I think that the main thing that Technics specified was the cartridge length and stylus position, so that the overhang would be immediately right when plugged into an arm, and a standard cartridge weight, so that it was easy to set the tracking weight, when that was adjustable.
Those nuts - losing the nuts!
-Don
Exactly. The T4P was designed so the top of the cartridge was left open. The perfect adapter would I guess have the top of the headshell open. It is unfortunate that the timing was wrong. The only thing that bothers me about the T4P is I have to take its word that the tracking and antiskate are @ 1.25 (when in a real T4P turntable/tonearm.) Just wish I could easily double-check! :yes:
ETI_5000
Super Member
That's easy to do. There are plenty of stylus force gauges available - Thorens make a very cheap one (<$15) that is widely available from their dealers, to check the tracking force - http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/mer...e=LG&Product_Code=ORTOFONSFG&Category_Code=PE . The anti-skating is easily checked with a test record, such as the Hi-fi News and Record Review one http://www.needledoctor.com/Hi-Fi-News-Test-Record?sc=2&category=438 , available new at plenty of cartridge or turntable specialists, and better hi-fi dealers, or with the excellent Shure test records, which are widely available used, at places such as that well known online auction site.
-Don
My Technics SLJ3 is completely automatic, doesn't even give me access to the cartridge when the lid is closed or open. Pulls it up tight to the lid and returns home when I lift the lid and won't come out until I close the lid and press a function to start. I will be on the lookout for a test record, though, thanks Don!
lini
just me...
MJSN: Needless to worry about anti-skate in a linear tracker - as there simply is no skate to anti there. 
Well, and for the tables with conventional T4P arms it pretty much depends on the model what controls it'll have - the SL-QX300 for example has fine-tuning capabilities for both anti-skating and tracking force. You're right about the tracking force for all of the Technics linear trackers with lid mounted arms, though: I don't know a way to check that, either.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Well, and for the tables with conventional T4P arms it pretty much depends on the model what controls it'll have - the SL-QX300 for example has fine-tuning capabilities for both anti-skating and tracking force. You're right about the tracking force for all of the Technics linear trackers with lid mounted arms, though: I don't know a way to check that, either.Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
ETI_5000
Super Member
Ah - that's a problem if you want to check tracking force. But, with a test record, you can check the tracking, and if you get through most of the tests, then the chances are your tracking force is OK. If it is obviously mistracking on most records, then I'd start worrying, but if it isn't, then it should be OK. And as Manfred said, you don't have to worry about anti-skating on a linear tracker.
-Don
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