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So That's A Decent Direct Drive Table? OK I Will Take It

M

Mister Pig

Pigamus Maximus
Earlier this week I was supposed to take delivery of a custom solid state amp I ordered in November of last year. Well it showed up, but both output boards were sheared off, and a couple of bolts backed themselves out and allowed the faceplate bounce itself off the sides, damaging the graphite matte paint job.

Well, where others see disappointment, I see an opportunity. You see earlier this week an AK'er listed his second Technics SP 10MK II on Barter town. I wanted the first one, but my money was used up from buying a Garrard 401 earlier in the year. Oh but I wanted to try that SP10, to see if there was any magic in the big Techie. I have owned an SP15 and SP25, and was underwhelmed with both of them. But this table is cut from a different cloth, and there is more than one high end table owner who have been enamored with this one. These tables are getting harder to find in good condition, and they aren't getting any cheaper. So with my cash flow soon to be restored, I sent that PM to make inquiries about working out the logistics of a purchase.

Things seem to have worked out fine. Within a month, possibly a week......I am going to be the owner of this SP10 MK II, and we will see what the hubbub is all about. I am looking forward to hearing how it stacks up against my TD 124, 401, and Serac. Will this table come out on top and prove the superiority of DD? Something its smaller siblings could not do for me. They say this is one of the best of the breed, so it is something I am looking forward to with some anticipation. Now this is going to take a long time, as the table really is going into a holding pattern. I am going to need an plinth, arm, and cartridge for it..... just like what the 401 needs. And it is going to take some serious money to get the needed stuff to complete it. But I wanted to jump at the chance to acquire it, and have the good fortune to use it when the other pieces come available.

So this completes my table collection for the time being. I have enough analog spinners to keep me busy for the rest of my audio career. It is an eclectic combination when I think about it. The stable is going to consist of

Galibier Audio Serac Pete Riggle 12" String Theory arm ZYX 4D cartridge

Thorens Td 124 Eminent Technology II arm Transfiguration Spirit III cartridge

AR XA by Marc Morin Ortofon Quintet Bronze

Garrard 401

Technics SP 10 MK II


Although there are some days I wonder what I am going to do with all these tables. Perhaps I should pick the best of the best, sell the pretenders, and invest the money in a top flight arm and cartridge. That is always an intriguing thought. But its going to be great fun finding out which is the best of the best. Now I count the days till I get the Techie safely here.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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I pondered going for the SP-10 myself, then thought about the next stage of renovations on the house and the two tables I have to work on already.... It would be interesting if you could get all of the tables somehow on a relatively level playing field and compare them, but that would be a real chore. In the end I suspect there will be a couple that perhaps aren't so much "better" as just turn your listening crank more than the others. The key will perhaps end up being to a considerable extent a matter of how well the plinths are done for each application.
 
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The SP10 Mk.II motor has torque like nothing else out there...except for the very rare and very, very expensive Mk.III. When I was getting mine adjusted, the motor torque was enough to actually make the drive unit jump off of the floor.
 
That is an impressive list of equipment. I went to the Vinyl Engine database to learn a little more about your stable, have been a little surprised at what you say about the SP15 and 25. Here is what I learned about the 3 Technics:

sp10 mark II : -73dB rumble, .025% wow and flutter
sp15 -78dB rumble, .025% wow and flutter
sp25 -78dB rumble, .025% wow and flutter

The SP10 is actually 5 dB nosier then the both the 15 and 25, with the same speed accuracy. I believe all of them meet tighter specs then either the Thorens or Garrard but I don't have the specs on those to compare, so that is only a personal opinion without any supporting documentation. In any case, the 2 Technics you tried and moved on from were very fine performers indeed so I have to wonder if it was the turntable you were dissatisfied with or the tonearm/cartridge/preamp that led to your dissatisfaction.

Just speculation on my part here. I'm sure that you will have fun with the SP10 when you get it.

Best of luck with it.

Shelly_D
 
So what's the relationship between the damaged amp and the turntable? Cancel/return the amp and put the funds towards the table?
 
I'm very curious how the comparison works out in the end. The quest continues. I have no idea what the SP-25 used for a plinth, but I was never convinced that the one the SP-15 did it any favours. If I recall it accurately it was such as to almost amplify any noise and communicate vibration pretty efficiently. The drive itself might shoulder some of the blame, but the plinth wasn't up to the task, either IMHO.
 
I like how you build your stable of gear, patiently waiting for the next piece to come along and take its place. Good luck getting it worked into the herd.......
 
shelly_d said:
That is an impressive list of equipment. I went to the Vinyl Engine database to learn a little more about your stable, have been a little surprised at what you say about the SP15 and 25. Here is what I learned about the 3 Technics:

sp10 mark II : -73dB rumble, .025% wow and flutter
sp15 -78dB rumble, .025% wow and flutter
sp25 -78dB rumble, .025% wow and flutter

The SP10 is actually 5 dB nosier then the both the 15 and 25, with the same speed accuracy. I believe all of them meet tighter specs then either the Thorens or Garrard but I don't have the specs on those to compare, so that is only a personal opinion without any supporting documentation. In any case, the 2 Technics you tried and moved on from were very fine performers indeed so I have to wonder if it was the turntable you were dissatisfied with or the tonearm/cartridge/preamp that led to your dissatisfaction.

Just speculation on my part here. I'm sure that you will have fun with the SP10 when you get it.

Best of luck with it.

Shelly_D
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I really enjoyed the finish and function of the SP15 and 25. Problem is they just lacked the ability to resolve fine detail in a way my other tables did. They were short on tone and texture of the music. I did get an improvement with the SP 25 when I had the bearing upgraded, and I might consider doing that with the SP 10 if it requires it. But the chassis of the SP 10 is more robust, and you have a higher mass, and more inert platter....so I have really high hopes for it. But I think there is more to table performance than just speed stability and rumble numbers. I agree that objective and repeatable numbers are important, but I am not convinced they describe all aspects of our tables.

Jeffery said:
So what's the relationship between the damaged amp and the turntable? Cancel/return the amp and put the funds towards the table?
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That is pretty much it. I had a 50% deposit which should be returned to me, and the 50% I am holding in reserve means I got the lions share of this purchase taken care of.

fiddlefye said:
I'm very curious how the comparison works out in the end. The quest continues. I have no idea what the SP-25 used for a plinth, but I was never convinced that the one the SP-15 did it any favours. If I recall it accurately it was such as to almost amplify any noise and communicate vibration pretty efficiently. The drive itself might shoulder some of the blame, but the plinth wasn't up to the task, either IMHO.
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That plinth was 4" of stacked birch ply with Bubinga wood for trim. It had as much mass as the plinths for my Galibier Serac and the Thorens TD 124. Heck I think the 124 had the stock hollow box plinth at the time. The SP 25 had a stacked birch plinth that was even larger than the one for the SP 15, and I split the arm board off it so it was mechanically isolated.

Not sure what I am going to do for the plinth on the SP 10. The builder in Moldova does stack birch ply with veneers which could be quite nice. I half way am considering something like a 4" thick piece of black acrylic as an option. But doing an arm board is going to be a bit problematic. I would like to fins something in short order so i can get it out of the box and at least in a semi permanent home.

I am looking forward to this, I really want to have a positive experience with a DD table, and from all accounts the SP 10 MK II ought to be the one I can do it with. While a Technics EPA arm would be awesome to own, I don't think I can find a decent one these days. My guess is I will consider mounting a 12" Project EVO arm on this table. The carbon fiber is pretty light in mass, but being a 12" arm it has a bit more material to work with. They seem to be very decent for the money these days. But that is getting ahead of myself.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
davidro said:
Thought you used to be a one-best-table-only sort of guy.
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First of all I am a pig, living in Pig-Topia! Have I shown you Pig-Topia?
pigss.jpg


I am a one system kind of pig, but there are reasons for owning more than one table, or at least more than one arm and cartridge. My downfall came when I rescued my TD 124 from a friends garage, and started restoring it. Since it was a "gift" of sorts I can't sell it off in good conscious.

That 124 comes very close to being on par with my main table, and that was suprising. So I wanted to see what a Marc Morin hot rodded AR could do. And then the Loricraft restored 401 just popped up, and I had a few bucks. Kind of like this SP 10 deal.

Now the thing is this. These days there is no way to really know what these tables are capable of without buying them. I live in a small town and there just aren't a bunch of classic tables hanging out to where I can go over and mount my cartridges up. Now it is possible I may thin my table collection down in the future, but for now I have the opportunity to form some very solid opinions from ownership. And I am going to take that bull by the horns! Eventually I might sell the whole kit and kabooble off and buy a Simon Yorke or a SME Type 10. .But for now I get to have a bit of fun with these somewhat desirable tables. Who knows the AR XA may be so killer that all the other pretenders get set aside and I get a couple of these. You never know till ya apply the ear test!

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Are we to allow blatant bestiality here? Ya dirty pig :smoke:

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It's ok. We all have our weaknesses. I assume you live in a place where space is no huge concern like a unit dweller like me. So why not a few more tables eh.
 
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