Sony PSX 60: question about catridge/stylus

[Rosco148]

When I was fixing up my Sony PSX 60 which I bought semi broken, I got a lot of really good and supportive advice here on all sorts of issues including which cartridge to use.
Now it is fully functional and working really nicely, holds speed perfectly. I had a Shure M91ED, which I replaced the stylus with a JICO elliptical model from Voice of Music.
It probably has less than 20 hours on it. I can hear no rumble or noise, and its quite clear and doesn't sound bad. But I feel like something is missing. It is really loud- I can't play it at higher than level 2 on my amplifier without deafening everyone. The bass is very strong and tends to subdue the highs and even the mid frequencies.
Should I expect it to improve after it gets worn in, or is there something else I should look at? This turntable and stylus got quite good ratings and I thought it should sound more balanced.
I'll appreciate any advice....

Thanks

 

[Rosco148]

When I was fixing up my Sony PSX 60 which I bought semi broken, I got a lot of really good and supportive advice here on all sorts of issues including which cartridge to use.
Now it is fully functional and working really nicely, holds speed perfectly. I had a Shure M91ED, which I replaced the stylus with a JICO elliptical model from Voice of Music.
It probably has less than 20 hours on it. I can hear no rumble or noise, and its quite clear and doesn't sound bad. But I feel like something is missing. It is really loud- I can't play it at higher than level 2 on my amplifier without deafening everyone. The bass is very strong and tends to subdue the highs and even the mid frequencies.
Should I expect it to improve after it gets worn in, or is there something else I should look at? This turntable and stylus got quite good ratings and I thought it should sound more balanced.
I'll appreciate any advice....

Thanks

Well.... I adjusted a whole bunch of things just from what I've read here, including the overhang, azimuth, VTF, VTA band it does sound a lot more balanced, so thanks to all those who have posted before.
It's still very loud though... Kind of bright.

 

[Roypercy]

For what it's worth, I have a Sony PS-X70 with an AT 120E cartridge, and I did find that it was awfully bright at first. It takes more time to break in than I think you've had with it. I now find it very balanced and easy to listen to, although I'd say overall the midrange is very slightly recessed compared to a couple other carts I've tried on the Sony (Stanton 680EE, for example) but I keep going back to the AT.

 

[Rosco148]

For what it's worth, I have a Sony PS-X70 with an AT 120E cartridge, and I did find that it was awfully bright at first. It takes more time to break in than I think you've had with it. I now find it very balanced and easy to listen to, although I'd say overall the midrange is very slightly recessed compared to a couple other carts I've tried on the Sony (Stanton 680EE, for example) but I keep going back to the AT.

Hi Roypercy,
Thanks so much for your reply. I don't know the AT120PE, is it similar to the M91ED?
To be honest, there's a couple of issues here for me, and I'd really appreciate any input.
First, I just resuscitated this table, so I'm still learning.
Every time I do something it changes and improves. After adjusting the VTF, VTA, anti-skate and azimuth, I then spent a bit of one getting it as level as possible.
Now it is sounding a lot more balanced and quite nice- but I think it could still be a bit more detailed, and the high frequencies could be more accented.
I'm wondering if maybe I need to look at upgrading my cartridge- I've read a lot about how difficult it is to do that; it seems that just spending more money is not necessarily a solution. Even tonearm mass seems to be a big issue.
So if anyone has experience and opinions, I'd love to hear them: e.g. buy a new SAS stylus.
But that costs almost the same as buying a AT440mlb. What would be better?
You say your 120PE was bright. My M91ED is not- it's loud, but the highs are a bit recessed- so should I expect it to get duller?
Maybe I need to make more adjustments?

 

[revox-b77]

Does your receiver / phono pre have a MM/MC switch? If so make sure it is on MM. That would make that Shure very loud and Bass heavy.

 

[JimmyEJames]

20 hours not enough to make final judgment general rule around 40
That is nice cartridge but not the best match for Sony arm for best match low compliance cartridge called for
PUA-7 high mass arm
I used old v15 on mine was ok but no where near good as can be
I think lot of these machines sold with high compliance cartridges do not understand but it is not end of world
Will work ok just not optimal
You might consider DL-103 that is what I am going to put on mine and not much money only $200 or any good low compliance cartridge
JJ

 

[Rosco148]

Does your receiver / phono pre have a MM/MC switch? If so make sure it is on MM. That would make that Shure very loud and Bass heavy.

Hi Revox-b77,
Yes, it has a mm/mc switch high I made sure was on mm..
I mentioned that adjusting the VTF, VTA, azimuth and anti-skate as well as levelling it did improve it quite a lot, but not to the point where it's balanced- the bass and now even more the mods seem to overwhelm the highs. I wonder if my M91ED could be "worn out"?

 

[Rosco148]

20 hours not enough to make final judgment general rule around 40
That is nice cartridge but not the best match for Sony arm for best match low compliance cartridge called for
PUA-7 high mass arm
I used old v15 on mine was ok but no where near good as can be
I think lot of these machines sold with high compliance cartridges do not understand but it is not end of world
Will work ok just not optimal
You might consider DL-103 that is what I am going to put on mine and not much money only $200 or any good low compliance cartridge
JJ

Hi JimmyEJames! Great to hear from you.
Thanks, I kinda wondered about that- would a heavy arm with this cartridge suppress the high frequencies? Its not bad after I made those other adjustments, I just feel it could be better so I was wondering about a different cartridge. Trouble is there is very little agreement among true vinyl fans about what's best- cause I guess tastes differ. . Have you heard the DL103 in the Sony- and how would you describe it? I'm looking for detail and natural clarity rather than strong bass or mids.
I'll keep on putting on the hours and see what happens!

 

[JimmyEJames]

Hi JimmyEJames! Great to hear from you.
Thanks, I kinda wondered about that- would a heavy arm with this cartridge suppress the high frequencies? Its not bad after I made those other adjustments, I just feel it could be better so I was wondering about a different cartridge. Trouble is there is very little agreement among true vinyl fans about what's best- cause I guess tastes differ. . Have you heard the DL103 in the Sony- and how would you describe it? I'm looking for detail and natural clarity rather than strong bass or mids.
I'll keep on putting on the hours and see what happens!

Any thing is possible
Best is not issue mass is issue
Less than 20 hours is NOT enough time to judge cartridge stylus combination
It does not matter what they think the Shure is not a good match for that arm from mechanical perspective and you already answer own question about sound you not happy
Maybe some people like
I already write about that Sony I have came with Shure too bad match not matter how much I wish! ; - )
Lot of things in audio making some people happy that are not best choice
If still not happy you need to try something else BUT may be problem with your amp what ever I do not know
BUT SHURE CARTRIDGE IS NOT GOOD MATCH FOR HIGH MASS ARM
Subjective impressions whole other story
PUA-7 needs LOW compliance cartridge to sound best I have used mine with Benz and very nice! ; - )
I told you I am going to buy the DL-103 so no have not heard on this arm yet
JJ

 

[revox-b77]

Try pushing the switch anyway. If it makes it worse you can un push it. ( do have the volume down when you do this) If you have a good EVG stylus on the M91 ed you should have good sound. The bass over powering the mids can not be a fault of the cartridge in and of itself. You might want to remove and reinsert the EVG stylus just to make sure it is seated properly. To directly answer your question: cartridge bodies work or they dont. They amy be missing a channel or not work at all but that is it. They do not change their sound characteristics.

 

[Rosco148]

Try pushing the switch anyway. If it makes it worse you can un push it. ( do have the volume down when you do this) If you have a good EVG stylus on the M91 ed you should have good sound. The bass over powering the mids can not be a fault of the cartridge in and of itself. You might want to remove and reinsert the EVG stylus just to make sure it is seated properly. To directly answer your question: cartridge bodies work or they dont. They amy be missing a channel or not work at all but that is it. They do not change their sound characteristics.

Great comments revox-b77. I will try reinserting the stylus, thats a definite possibility. The mm/mc switch I've played with, so that's not an issue.
I have a JICO elliptical, which is well rated. But maybe, as JimmyEJames says, its just the wrong cartridge for this table???
As I say, right now it doesn't sound terrible, but for example, I had a lowly Sony PS212 years ago, cant remember what cartridge I had, but I think it was a AT97, and I still have some recordings made on that one (on tape)- it had a lovely clear high end and good defined base and mids. I wouldn't expect that to sound nicer than this one!

 

[Rosco148]

Any thing is possible
Best is not issue mass is issue
Less than 20 hours is NOT enough time to judge cartridge stylus combination
It does not matter what they think the Shure is not a good match for that arm from mechanical perspective and you already answer own question about sound you not happy
Maybe some people like
I already write about that Sony I have came with Shure too bad match not matter how much I wish! ; - )
Lot of things in audio making some people happy that are not best choice
If still not happy you need to try something else BUT may be problem with your amp what ever I do not know
BUT SHURE CARTRIDGE IS NOT GOOD MATCH FOR HIGH MASS ARM
Subjective impressions whole other story
PUA-7 needs LOW compliance cartridge to sound best I have used mine with Benz and very nice! ; - )
I told you I am going to buy the DL-103 so no have not heard on this arm yet
JJ

I believe you about the mismatch. Thinking about changing it. I'm just kinda scared of a MC cause if you accidentally damage it then isn't that a big deal? Don't you Have to then get it rebuilt?
Thanks for the info, JimmyEJames

 

[JimmyEJames]

I believe you about the mismatch. Thinking about changing it. I'm just kinda scared of a MC cause if you accidentally damage it then isn't that a big deal? Don't you Have to then get it rebuilt?
Thanks for the info, JimmyEJames

Most not all moving coil do NOT have removable stylus so yes if you mess up then more hassle to deal with but also same hassle when diamond wears out
Called retip also broken cantilever and even inside of motor can be repaired too
Some models go back to factory all models can be sent to private business who do cartridge work
Buy from right company and they have trade in policy structure for this
If that nervous maybe shop for low compliance moving magnet I do not have suggestion
Good luck
JJ

 

[Van_Isle]

What's the rest of your system?

Is the phono pre separate or built-in to the amp/receiver?

What was the result of playing with the MM/MC switch?

PS-X60 still have the stock interconnects?

 

[JimmyEJames]

I feel modification suggest posts coming on! ; - (
The shielded coax used on PS-X60 of VERY high quality and incorporated into machine in elegant fashion
Sony spend effort on this and if look will see not just few pennies for grommet or squeeze in hole device
Tonearm to coax junction also work of engineer art if compare to many other machines
I discourage fooling with or changing out coax is NOT your issue!
If done waste of time will be hard to improve on wire Sony select for this model
This was not a price point machine per se for fundamentals
This was peak time for Sony and this definite NOT bargain machine they sell a lot but NOT cheap price tag!
JJ

 

[Van_Isle]

Well I've had two PS-X60s revived from near-death and had to replace interconnects on one and tear down the tonearm to fix the anti-skate so I'm well aware of this turntable, thanks.

I want to know if he has modified his interconnects .... or for that matter perhaps he has 10-feet of interconnect between turntable and phono stage messing with his capacitance loading. And what was the effect of switching the MM/MC in and out. Anything? If nothing, then he has a pre-amp issue .... perhaps even as simple as a dirty switch on an older amp ... maybe it actually stuck on MC.

What amp is it? What speakers?

If its an external pre-amp ... which one? What's the resistance and capacitance of the pre-amp?

And I guess I should have asked 1st ... has he tried a different cartridge or different turntable/cartridge on the same set-up?

AT cartridges are typically brighter than Shures anyway ... and YMMV with aftermarket styli like the EVG ... which lacks a bit of the detail of the originals (which probably doesn't help balance issues in higher frequencies). I agree, by the way, that the OP needs to let his stylus break in further before making any large investment changes .. but let's make sure it isn't anything else of issue in his setup.

If the OP wants a lower compliance cartridge then he could always get a m93e stylus for the m91ed.

 

[JimmyEJames]

Well I've had two PS-X60s revived from near-death and had to replace interconnects on one and tear down the tonearm to fix the anti-skate so I'm well aware of this turntable, thanks.

NO challenge or accusation just been around audio forum enough to know it always happen
Same as recap advice on machine that has dead channel even before dead channel issue solve! : - (
NOT personal attack but just matter of short time before mod advice start
Your other inquiries 100% valid I have NO disagreement very valid
Sorry you take that way!
JJ

 

[Van_Isle]

No issues .... poorly worded response on my end!

 

[Rosco148]

What's the rest of your system?

Is the phono pre separate or built-in to the amp/receiver?

What was the result of playing with the MM/MC switch?

PS-X60 still have the stock interconnects?

Hi to an Isle

No issues .... poorly worded response on my end!

Hi to Van_Isle! I have followed you for a while, coming from the beautiful Island, (I'm in Abbotsford), so I'm really happy you came on!
Thanks to you and JimmyEJames for the great input.
To try to answer your questions:
I have it connected to a Akai AM-U41 amp, which I love. It tends to be warm but has a very powerful wide sound with clear but not harsh mids and highs. It sounds really good with the accompanying tuner and other inputs. I recently cleaned and lubed the switches.
I'd I have it on mm, it sounds just nice at present, switch to mc and it sounds really loud and horrible, so I think the setting is right. Internals, I have no idea.
The workings, interconnects and wiring are completely standard.The only thing I did you was use a lighter headshell, as the Sony one is thick and I don't have screws long enough for the m91ed.
Interestingly, I am using 1.2g VTF, and the stylus sits much higher than my old one did, and bumps hardly even seem to disturb it (it's a Jico Elliptical).
I'm using Tannoy speakers which are quite neutral.
I should tell you that the sound is a lot improved in what it was since I adjusted a bunch of things.
It's just not what I expect it should be. Van_Isle, it's very possibly a problem with my amp, I just don't know. But I feel it's more likely that I have to make more adjustments to the turntable- what's coming out of the amp is balanced and accurate- it just doesn't sparkle, even compared to the Akai tuner which came with my amp.
I have not tried any other cartridges- the only others that I have are an Excel, which I found to be not nearly as good, and the original Sony cart, which has a busted stylus (from trying to remove it- the plastic frame broke at the corner.
I will continue to break in this cart. At present I'm looking for any and all advice, so I appreciate all that you guys have given.
Sorry it took me a while to respond!

 

[JimmyEJames]

Hello Rosco148
Get some screws and use Sony head shell especially if you get a better match cartridge
That head shell big contribution to PUA-7 sound quality but since you using the cartridge you are the lower mass may be plus
Still will sound better with Sony head shell with low compliance cartridge that head shell is VERY nice and part of design
JJ