Sony XL-55 and Sony XL-55 Pro cartridge

[Plato65]

22mm change in pivot-to-spindle would affect offset angle, but not a lot.

I'm with you on headshells, though I did have a problem with some wood headshells where, probably due to the humidity here, the wood part became loose around the metal part that goes into the tonearm.

Ok, good! I have four now, one for each turntable

 

[Halcro]

If you're looking for an XL-55, there are quite a few
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=Sony+Xl+55

 

[Mister Pig]

As I recall Transfiguration Audio bought the rights to Sony's ring magnet design. They have gone on to refine its layout. Anyone had a chance to listen to their offerings and make the comparison to the earlier Sony cartridges?

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[Plato65]

As I recall Transfiguration Audio bought the rights to Sony's ring magnet design. They have gone on to refine its layout. Anyone had a chance to listen to their offerings and make the comparison to the earlier Sony cartridges?

I didn't know this, so I went off looking for info. Looks like the ring magnets came later (XL-MC5/7) models, but the figure-8 coils of the XL55 were adopted in other cartridges. Sources of info:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/72/723119.html

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussi...igal-carnegie-one?highlight=sumiko+blue+point

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ration-Proteus&p=211877&viewfull=1#post211877

 

[Plato65]

the SINGLE most important audible relationship in the phono chain.....that between the cartridge and the headshell.

Curious about this statement. Do you do something specific to optimize that relationship? Choice of materials? Mounting hardware? Leads?

 

[Halcro]

Curious about this statement. Do you do something specific to optimize that relationship? Choice of materials? Mounting hardware? Leads?

Just as the platter/disc interface changes with every differing material and thickness of mat (or no mat) so the interface of any cartridge to its headshell changes the sound. Sometimes drastically I have found.....
Metal-bodied cartridges rarely sound their best in metal headshells. Put them on a wood or carbon-fibre shell and the differences can be jaw-dropping (and different woods have different effects). Plastic-bodied cartridges however can often sound their best in metal headshells but often, surprisingly, can also sound even better in a wood or plastic headshell. Are you not surprised to see the majority of integral-head cartridges like the SPUs and FR-7 series having plastic bodies or even plastic in combination with metal?
Michael Fremer recently ditched his long-standing reference Cobra tonearm (plastic body and shell) for the SAT which is carbon fibre connected to a layered carbon-fibre headshell very much like the Yamamoto

I suspect that his liking for this $35,000 SAT arm has more to do with the headshell material and cartridge interface than the tonearm deign itself....?
The majority of high-end tonearms with their fixed headshells condemn their owners to an inability to extract a cartridge's maximum performance. And they are simply unaware of this

 

[Plato65]

Thanks! Very helpful. I haven't tried carbon-fiber headshells, but I now want to try one. You seem to like the Yamamoto models. I do like the sound of wood headshells (conditional on them not being loose, see above) or even a thin piece of wood between the cartridge & headshell.

The SPUs come in a variety of materials: my SPU Synergy is resin & ground wood while my SPU GE is Al/Mg alloy.

 

[Mister Pig]

I didn't know this, so I went off looking for info. Looks like the ring magnets came later (XL-MC5/7) models, but the figure-8 coils of the XL55 were adopted in other cartridges. Sources of info:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/72/723119.html

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/thoughts-on-the-madrigal-carnegie-one?highlight=sumiko+blue+point

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ration-Proteus&p=211877&viewfull=1#post211877

Sounds like a Carnegie 1 would be worth exploring. Shame its difficult to get into them to adjust the suspension. One of the cartridges I have is a Transfiguration Spirit III. It has an interesting level of clarity and transparency that is enticing. But it is not overly sweet or full sounding, nor aggressive in the higher registers. It is one of my most enjoyable cartridges, although I own several more expensive ones.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[Plato65]

Yes, Carnegie 1 does sound quite interesting. A friend of mine here loves his Miyajima Kansui as he thinks it's the only MC he has heard that has a natural sound for acoustic instruments, but for opera he uses a Transfiguration as he thinks it makes the voices sound particularly natural.

So do you know any sweet, refined, and full sounding cartridges?

 

[Halcro]

Thanks! Very helpful. I haven't tried carbon-fiber headshells, but I now want to try one. You seem to like the Yamamoto models. I do like the sound of wood headshells (conditional on them not being loose, see above) or even a thin piece of wood between the cartridge & headshell.

The SPUs come in a variety of materials: my SPU Synergy is resin & ground wood while my SPU GE is Al/Mg alloy.

Yes....the Yamamoto carbon-fiber HS-4S has been something of a revelation. I read this interview with the designer of the SAT tonearm and I saw a close-up of its headshell....
I was then looking at the Yamamoto website and saw their carbon-fiber headshells which looked identical to the SAT one.
After trying one on my Garrott P77/SAS.....I ordered another four......

 

[Plato65]

Thanks! This has turned into a very instructive thread. Do you prefer the HS-4 or the HS-4S with fancier leads? What are the leads in the HS-4 with Atlas pic above?

You mentioned P77/SAS. Have you tried both the original SAS and the Neo SAS in your P77? If so, what are the sonic differences?

 

[Halcro]

Thanks! This has turned into a very instructive thread. Do you prefer the HS-4 or the HS-4S with fancier leads? What are the leads in the HS-4 with Atlas pic above?

You mentioned P77/SAS. Have you tried both the original SAS and the Neo SAS in your P77? If so, what are the sonic differences?

I really like the fully bonded 99.99 copper leads of the HS-4S. I go for these in the wood shells as well. I tried using some fancy leads on a couple of the HS-4 I bought but I don't think it's an improvement.
Be aware that as with all different headshells, there is no 'one' fit solution. The carbon-fiber doesn't improve ALL cartridges (didn't work for the Atlas)...but it's got a pretty good strike rate chez moi...
I've only used the old SAS stylus so far. It used a beryllium cantilever I believe and most of my favourite cartridges have this in common. The Neo SAS uses a sapphire cantilever whilst Jico are bringing out a tapered ruby cantilever shortly
Time will tell whether these are better or not......
Times are getting exciting......

 

[Mister Pig]

Yes, Carnegie 1 does sound quite interesting. A friend of mine here loves his Miyajima Kansui as he thinks it's the only MC he has heard that has a natural sound for acoustic instruments, but for opera he uses a Transfiguration as he thinks it makes the voices sound particularly natural.

So do you know any sweet, refined, and full sounding cartridges?

Vintage moving coils are difficult to get a grip upon, as their differences to each other and even modern cartridges are so significant that it is hard to get a handle on them. Today, as cartridges get better, and generally more expensive, the differences between models and manufacturers seem to shrink, as they get a more and more of the information off the record in similar fashion. Vintage cartridges come from a different era of analog, and they are far more distinctive. I have an Ortofon MC 200 in excellent condition, and to describe the differences between it and my ZYX 4D is a bit challenging. It sounds far different, but when you go to describe the sound, it doesn't do anything inherently wrong. So exactly what are the differences? It is a matter of perspective, and what real music sounds like. And yes the modern cartridge sounds closer to Cd than ever before, so in some ways it stands to reason that the vintage MC cartridge will not, as this was not a reference point when they were built.

Since you are in Singapore, have you had a chance to listen to the Phase Tech series of cartridges. As I understand it, these are favored by many Japanese audiophiles, but do not have a significant presence outside of the country. Also, what about one of the Miyabi cartridges before 47 Labs took over distribution of them? It is also my personal opinion that the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze is a very nice cartridge for the money, with a touch of warmth that does not sacrifice the detail and texture of music. But that is just my opinion of course.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[Plato65]

To me, analog is the reference on how I try to get my digital set up to sound. I've been making progress and now my digital set up is slowly starting to be enjoyable. Turns out digital is just as tweaky as analog.

I've been curious about the Phase Tech cartridges for a while but haven't heard one. Based on the little information that I have found, they are more on the cool & dynamic side. Miyabis sound interesting, but they're too expensive new and I don't think I've ever seen a used one for sale.

As a side note, my turntable has three tonearms, one of which is dedicated for mono. For the two stereo tonearms, I'm leaning towards having one cartridge with a more open, dynamic sound for orchestral & choral music and one more intimate, warm sound for chamber & jazz.

 

[Plato65]

I really like the fully bonded 99.99 copper leads of the HS-4S. I go for these in the wood shells as well. I tried using some fancy leads on a couple of the HS-4 I bought but I don't think it's an improvement.
Be aware that as with all different headshells, there is no 'one' fit solution. The carbon-fiber doesn't improve ALL cartridges (didn't work for the Atlas)...but it's got a pretty good strike rate chez moi...
I've only used the old SAS stylus so far. It used a beryllium cantilever I believe and most of my favourite cartridges have this in common. The Neo SAS uses a sapphire cantilever whilst Jico are bringing out a tapered ruby cantilever shortly
Time will tell whether these are better or not......
Times are getting exciting......

So the carbon-fiber headshell goes on the shopping list. I need to check it out now.

Which other cartridges have beryllium cantilevers? Some older AT, Shure, etc. at least.

If you like the sound of beryllium in cartridges, do you also like beryllium speaker elements like in the Yamaha NS1000 or NS2000 speakers?

 

[Halcro]

So the carbon-fiber headshell goes on the shopping list. I need to check it out now.

Which other cartridges have beryllium cantilevers? Some older AT, Shure, etc. at least.

If you like the sound of beryllium in cartridges, do you also like beryllium speaker elements like in the Yamaha NS1000 or NS2000 speakers?

I think the Signet TK-7LCa and 7SU both have beryllium cantilevers and the AT-155Lc is beryllium. The Sony XL-55 discussed here has a mixture of aluminium, beryllium and carbon fibre.
I really did like the NS 1000 speaker....strange you should mention it....I don't know if the beryllium portion played a part

 

[Plato65]

I think the Signet TK-7LCa and 7SU both have beryllium cantilevers and the AT-155Lc is beryllium. The Sony XL-55 discussed here has a mixture of aluminium, beryllium and carbon fibre.

I have ATN160ML stylus in my TK7LCA. Is that beryllium? Is the ATN155LC better?

This is drifting further off topic, but how do you store all your cartridges & headshells?

 

[Halcro]

I have ATN160ML stylus in my TK7LCA. Is that beryllium? Is the ATN155LC better?

This is drifting further off topic, but how do you store all your cartridges & headshells?

I don't think the 160ML is beryllium.....the 155LC stylus is superb. I used to have 5 of them They fit in all the Signet Ea series bodies.

This is how I store just the cartridges I use often. The Fidelity Research K5 and K10 Cartridge Keeper. The other ones I just keep in drawers.....

 

[belyin]

My first two retips were done by Expert Stylus Company in England, last one by Soundsmith.

Was Expert Stylus able to retip the original cantilever?

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Expert Stylus retipped the original cantilever for me.