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Speaker cable gauge considerations

AudioGMan said:
I have some Belden 16AWG speaker wire. I also have some 10AWG Belden speaker wire. I will use a 10’ length of each kind. Using a 1.5V AA alkaline battery first I’m going to measure the voltage of the battery with my DMM and write it down. Then I will connect the battery at one end of the 16AWG and measure the voltage at the opposite end and write it down. Then I will do the same for the 10AWG. Does anyone disagree that this wouldn’t be a valid test to determine voltage drop between the two different gauge wires?
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Assuming nobody's fudging on the wire specs, the resistivity of copper is a known value.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/copper-wire-d_1429.html

Also, V=IR so if there is no current flowing you're not going to measure any voltage drop at all.
 
Bodyblue said:
I am sitting in a lab waiting for a blood draw and everybody looked at me when I started laughing at your post!
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My work here is done.
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N8Nagel said:
THHN is intended to be pulled through conduit; if you want to try something similar but different that is essentially electrically the same but easier to handle, see if your local hardware sellin' emporium sells 12/2 extension cord stock off the spool and try that (e.g. SJ, SJO, or anything beginning as such) alternately 12AWG lamp cord (they probably won't, 16AWG is pretty standard.) The conductors will be the same cross section but will be made of more, smaller strands and so will be more flexible.
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Good ideas. This stuff is much more workable once you twist it. That was a wrist workout this morning. Still have the other cords to do.

Speaker wire.jpg
 
HiFi in WYO said:
Good ideas. This stuff is much more workable once you twist it. That was a wrist workout this morning. Still have the other cords to do.

View attachment 1666576
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Just do what I do. Stick the two ends of the wire in a cordless drill and tighten the chuck on it. Have someone else hold the other ends together and stretch out the wire to where it’s taught and then spin the dril. Of course you’ll have to walk towards the other person as you’re doing this to compensate for the twist. Comes out all evenly twisted and takes a few seconds.
 
imral3 said:
That's what cordless drills are for! :thumbsup:
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AudioGMan said:
Just do what I do. Stick the two ends of the wire in a cordless drill and tighten the chuck on it. Have someone else hold the other ends together and stretch out the wire to where it’s taught and then spin the dril. Of course you’ll have to walk towards the other person as you’re doing this to compensate for the twist. Comes out all evenly twisted and takes a few seconds.
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Well sheeeite, I didn't even think of that before doing it. Not much to take that one apart and redo. Would look nicer too. Ok, back to the drawing board.
 
AudioGMan said:
I have some Belden 16AWG speaker wire. I also have some 10AWG Belden speaker wire. I will use a 10’ length of each kind. Using a 1.5V AA alkaline battery first I’m going to measure the voltage of the battery with my DMM and write it down. Then I will connect the battery at one end of the 16AWG and measure the voltage at the opposite end and write it down. Then I will do the same for the 10AWG. Does anyone disagree that this wouldn’t be a valid test to determine voltage drop between the two different gauge wires?
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The real question is what does voltage sound like .. there's sonic measurements using ears and there's electrical measurements ..

There certainly isn't any voltage difference between a braided or twisted cable and an unbraided cale but there's a sonic difference ..coil that 50' and listen to it compared to an uncoiled 50' run.
I have no doubt about the lack of voltage drop and obviously a lot of folks believe that there's no sonic difference and just use any old gauge that doesn't suffer
from voltage drop ..
But there are also a large number of people (and I'm categorically one) who do hear a difference between differing cable topologies and sizes ..
It's been a long time since I messed with wiring in lower resolution gear, but there's a couple of Harman integrateds in the basement.
I would be happy to do the experiments and listen if I had 100' of 18ga laying around .. I don't have a 50' run of anything ..
I'd go pick some up from the local Home Improvement box, but I would have to leave it in a coil in order to return it ..
And if I the wire left in a coil then the inductance of the coil would would affect the frequency response and bias anything that I may hear ..
So I pass unless someone wants to send me some wire .. I'm curious and I've got the time ..
 
Akustic said:
Two questions ..

Does it sound different when it's twisted ??
And the harder question ..
Does it sound better twisted ??
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I don't know, haven't hooked them up twisted yet. They sound better untwisted than my other cables, for sure. Mostly I'm twisting them because the wire is pretty unruly if you don't.

I'll retwist the first one and leave the other untwisted and do a comparison.
 
AudioGMan said:
Okay so what would be a better test? To apply a sine wave or pink noise and then measure AC voltage without changing volume level?
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Again it's all about our friend Ohm's law and the input impedance of your DMM which is likely 10 megohms

A quick small amount of back-of-the-envelope math the current flowing is going to be in the small micro amp range and unless your DMM has a lot of digits and a fair amount of accuracy you won't be able to see the voltage drop on the cable

Again this is basic Ohm's law 101

I am sure you are very familiar with it given your experience

If you want to dig deeper into this do a fast Fourier transform analysis of some square waves with a load on the far end of the cable
 
Akustic said:
The real question is what does voltage sound like .. there's sonic measurements using ears and there's electrical measurements ..

There certainly isn't any voltage difference between a braided or twisted cable and an unbraided cale but there's a sonic difference ..coil that 50' and listen to it compared to an uncoiled 50' run.
I have no doubt about the lack of voltage drop and obviously a lot of folks believe that there's no sonic difference and just use any old gauge that doesn't suffer
from voltage drop ..
But there are also a large number of people (and I'm categorically one) who do hear a difference between differing cable topologies and sizes ..
It's been a long time since I messed with wiring in lower resolution gear, but there's a couple of Harman integrateds in the basement.
I would be happy to do the experiments and listen if I had 100' of 18ga laying around .. I don't have a 50' run of anything ..
I'd go pick some up from the local Home Improvement box, but I would have to leave it in a coil in order to return it ..
And if I the wire left in a coil then the inductance of the coil would would affect the frequency response and bias anything that I may hear ..
So I pass unless someone wants to send me some wire .. I'm curious and I've got the time ..
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The discussion about hearing a difference materialized from mschool’s original post but it was never about different topologies. It was only about cable length. He was asking what size speaker wire he should use when needing 6.5’ of wire per speaker. I say use at least 18AWG and no need to use thicker than 16AWG because it’s not going to benefit him. Some are always going to say that thicker wire is better.
 
No
I LIKE MUSIC said:
Again it's all about our friend Ohm's law and the input impedance of your DMM which is likely 10 megohms

A quick small amount of back-of-the-envelope math the current flowing is going to be in the small micro amp range and unless your DMM has a lot of digits and a fair amount of accuracy you won't be able to see the voltage drop on the cable

Again this is basic Ohm's law 101

I am sure you are very familiar with it given your experience

If you want to dig deeper into this do a fast Fourier transform analysis of some square waves with a load on the far end of the cable
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No I’d rather not waste my time on something so insignificant. I’d rather just enjoy the music.
 
"There certainly isn't any voltage difference between a braided or twisted cable and an unbraided cale but there's a sonic difference"

Not exactly

If there is a discernible difference in sound quality then by definition there must be a difference in the voltage going to the speaker

The difference in voltage takes form in the form of a distribution of instantaneous amplitudes across the audio Spectrum
 
The last 500 ft of 14 (oxygenated?) copper for 50 ft runs I bought cost less than 16 and I didn't want 18. Very happy. No I didn't twist.
 
I LIKE MUSIC said:
Sorry

It does appear as if you were the one that was asking the question about how to do it
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I thought I could do a simple experiment using my DMM but if it’s not going to make any difference in voltage then why bother. That was originally my whole point to begin with.
 
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