terra1
Addicted Member
Snake Oil Skeptic measures differences in cable ...
In the context of this thread, I think that it's a worthwhile read from a person who is skeptical about marketing claims but at the same time recognizes the value of quality speaker cables.
In addition, he also addresses the factors and measurements of speaker cables in their review. So a little bit of something for both sides to digest.
Only it's not an ABX test, though ...
:tears:
Summary
Whether you are in the "I can hear a difference or not hear a difference" camp, Audioholics throws little scraps of support for both sides of the argument. Almost a moderate position.
He does what a lot of skeptics at AK have been calling for: measurements and testing, explaining the science that can affect a signal, avoiding extravagant marketing claims, praising companies that reveal specs. He suspects some people probably do buy for psychological comfort, but he withholds harping on that claim since he is not a qualified medical expert to measure or judge that. He gets some street cred from me on that alone. In fact, the esthetics of cable and design can be a positive factor and is included in their ratings.
The divergence from hardliners, is that he doesn't take the approach of wire is just wire: he apparently thinks cable design can affect quality.
But he also doesn't believe a lot of the marketing claims.
In their cable reviews, they do some cable measurements and explain what can affect the signal, but also points out what he considers as academic rather than significant.
If you look at their published reviews and articles, one can actually take something positive for both sides of the argument. There are still some areas for disagreement, but compared to some, he may be a moderate.
Yes, there can be a difference.
Yes, you don't have to pay hyperbolic prices for good sound.
But he didn't choose to use an ABX test, though ....
3 things going on.
- Review on the highly recommended Kimber Cable by Gene DellaSala, Audioholics.com President
- Snake Oil signs article.
- Snake Oil response/email exchange between Gene DellaSala and Joe Harley Audioquest VP Product Development
In the context of this thread, I think that it's a worthwhile read from a person who is skeptical about marketing claims but at the same time recognizes the value of quality speaker cables.
In addition, he also addresses the factors and measurements of speaker cables in their review. So a little bit of something for both sides to digest.
Only it's not an ABX test, though ...
:tears:- Kimber Kable 4PR & 8PR Speaker Cable Review
In the end, he highly recommends the Kimber Cables.
The most relevant points that pertain to this thread is that it covers the metrics of cable which can be different -- and that cable can sound different.
"I am not one who attempts to discern the subtle sonic differences cables convey on an audio system. I am a firm believer that only poorly designed cables can under the right conditions be sonically distinguishable." Basically, similar to what he says in the Blue Jeans review, "Cables can and do sound different - bad ones that is. "
He also points out that the ideal is to avoid coloration for transparency to be heard by the listener.
It also cites where some measurements are academic.
So it supports that there can be differences in the quality of cable.
So cable design can make a difference.
Cables can and do sound different.
The reviewer discusses resistance, inductance, capacitance and factors of length and termination. He mentions although Kimber cables have relatively high capacitance, people buying are probably using short runs and already running high quality amplification which should not have stability issues driving moderately high capacitance speaker cable. He also points out proven braiding techniques can reduce inductance which unchecked could lead to signal loss at high frequencies. Elements that have already been offered as part of the equation in differences during previous debates here.
- Product Name: Kimber Kable 4PR & 8PR Speaker Cable
- Manufacturer: Kimber Kable
- Performance Rating: StarStarStarStarStar
- Value Rating: StarStar
- Review Date: May 19, 2009 22:32
- MSRP: $ 5.6 per foot + terminations for 8PR / $2.9/ft + terminations for 4PR
Price for a pair of 20 foot Kimber cables not the melodramatic figures of $4000, $8000 or even $1000.
- Top Ten Signs an Audio Cable Vendor is Selling You Snake Oil
The main problem and recurring theme in the Snake Oil concerns is the "technobabble" involved in marketing and the pricing. Legitimate points to consider in any purchasing decision. Cable or otherwise. Along with your goals, budget, system, and priorities.
- AudioQuest Responds to Top 10 Snake Oil Article exchange between Gene DellaSala and Joe Harley
I did not find the Audioquest response scathing.
I did find DellaSala offering their own insulting if not "scathing" response by stating
"Our mind has not been made up about the quality of your cables. Despite your unproven and mostly fictitious claims, if your cables measure well based on proven science (you know lumped element analysis) they may actually perform well. If we had samples to review, we would certainly confirm this."
Declaring "unproven, mostly fictitious claims" but they have not tested them?
It just seems there was a leap in unprofessional judgment with some snark about how "Our mind has not been made up. Despite your unproven and mostly fictitious claims..." Sounds like some parts of their mind was already made up. So I guess it depends on which bias you approach it from as to who was more scathing.
This is mostly a meaningless exhange. DellaSala admits that he has not tested or made up any decision on the quality of Audioquest cables themselves, but goes into his snake oil talking points. No resolution or enlightenment to be found here.
Summary
Whether you are in the "I can hear a difference or not hear a difference" camp, Audioholics throws little scraps of support for both sides of the argument. Almost a moderate position.
He does what a lot of skeptics at AK have been calling for: measurements and testing, explaining the science that can affect a signal, avoiding extravagant marketing claims, praising companies that reveal specs. He suspects some people probably do buy for psychological comfort, but he withholds harping on that claim since he is not a qualified medical expert to measure or judge that. He gets some street cred from me on that alone. In fact, the esthetics of cable and design can be a positive factor and is included in their ratings.
The divergence from hardliners, is that he doesn't take the approach of wire is just wire: he apparently thinks cable design can affect quality.
But he also doesn't believe a lot of the marketing claims.
In their cable reviews, they do some cable measurements and explain what can affect the signal, but also points out what he considers as academic rather than significant.
If you look at their published reviews and articles, one can actually take something positive for both sides of the argument. There are still some areas for disagreement, but compared to some, he may be a moderate.
Yes, there can be a difference.
Yes, you don't have to pay hyperbolic prices for good sound.
But he didn't choose to use an ABX test, though ....
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