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Speaker Wire, Gauge, etc.

danrclem said:
I'd like for somebody to explain the reason for speaker wire heavier than 14 gauge copper...
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Ever seen a real poweramp? Had a look inside of it? One of those they like to say "you can weld with this one"? Here is a look inside one:

no-333-2-mark-levinson.jpg




ml-333-04_39470.jpg


Notice the d imensions of those rails going from the powercaps and way back to the terminals. Then add a 14awg doorbellwire into your highend-speakers and feel smart.

Here is a filtercoil from a high-end speaker btw, notice the rectangular 2x6mm thread. That`s Close to 6awg. Why would anyone...

MCoil_N.png


A Toyota Yaris might do with only a 1,5" exhaust system, that does not mean that 1,5" "is all you ever need"
 
The fatter the better and if you can't tell the difference, you're BLIND!

Actually, I had an Ampzilla 200wpch amp fully rebuilt a number of years ago. Upon gazing at the 10awg cable inside one of my Acoustat TNT200 amps hooking up the main caps, I pondered what result may ensue if I replaced the 14awg hook up wire to the mains in the Ampzilla with similar 10awg. Guess what?...bigger/faster impact/slam on the bottom end. These wires are only about 4-5 in. long. Seems nuts but I know what I heard. Acoustat clearly had a reason for using 10awg.
 
I just went from 14awg to 16 today on my vintage STA 85/Nova 7 setup in the living room the runs are 5ft and 4 feet. I used spade connectors for the receiver and ring connectors for the speakers. There is zero reason to use any thicker than 16 (probably 18) on short runs.......on any priced system.
 
 
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I like big fat heavy cables.

Seems like that little itty bitty teeny tiny filament in most fuses would be a huge bottle neck, whether inside a piece of gear or a speaker.
 
Bodyblue said:
I just went from 14awg to 16 today on my vintage STA 85/Nova 7 setup in the living room the runs are 5ft and 4 feet. I used spade connectors for the receiver and ring connectors for the speakers. There is zero reason to use any thicker than 16 (probably 18) on short runs.......on any priced system.
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Are you basing your strong commitment to skinny wire on that 35 wpc receiver? I don't think the large power amp manufacturers would agree and as I have stated I also enjoy the improved sonics of thicker copper wire for higher powered amps. You can use whatever you want. Enjoy
 
The need for the cables are my "New" system. Right now it sits on my living room floor doing nothing . My Goods are a MC2205 for L/R. MC30 for C. SVS PB1000 sub. Right now my current system is a Marantz AV7702 Pre-Pro, Emotiva XPA-3 1st Gen., Martin Logan Motion 40's 1st Gen. L/R. Motion 8 C, No surrounds yet. I'm waiting after I get everything hooked up to get some. The Emotiva will be used for the surrounds. The Amps will be controlled by the AV7702.

My cables, whenever I can get around to building them, will be hooked up to the 4 Ohm screws on both Mc's. As the Motion 40's are 4 Ohm according to the Manual and website. But will work with 8 Ohm. But I'm going to stick with 4 Ohm.

I'm not using my Audio Rack. I'm laying things out on the floor. I bought 2" Maple Butcher blocks. And I'm gonna use Isolation Feet for the blocks, probably Pangea Audio Sorbothanes. The Rack will most likely be used for a Turntable I will get in late Summer, early Fall.

So the L/R speakers will be approx 6 ft on either side of the MC2205. That's why I figure 8 ft of cable per side. I'd like to find solid copper spades that would fit the Terminal Block of my vintage Mc's. The ones I found were $pricey,they looked nice though. And Bullet banana plugs are kinda rare here. It's what I need. The screw knob on the terminal block on the back of my Motion 40's stick way out. And have a small hole to insert a plug. Bullet plugs will have to be used as I'm also wanting to build my own Jumper cables with copper spades. Which means I have to back out the tightening Knob even more. Regular banana jackets won't fit good as the knob hole is too small. And when backed out, makes the banana jack even farther away. With the terminal knobs all the way screwed out, the gap is only .175 , so with the jumper spades .090 - .100 (+/- .010). I'll only have about .075 of movement after I tighten down the terminal knobs. Hence my need for bullet bananas. They'll be soldered to the cable with heat-shrink over that. The knob hole is too small for a regular banana housing. Even now, my Blue Jeans with Lock Lugs, don't go all the way in. That damn knob hole!!!

Some might think "Just get BJ's again". I could, but, I want to try this on my own. To try and build my own cables. I've moved from wanna be to Junior 'Phile status. I want to try a few things a few different ways. Like a lot of us have. Then I'll find what I like. And what worked best for me, my ears, and my equipment.

Anyways, thanks, for reals, for all of the suggestions and comments. And I'd like to hear more. The more I can learn, the more I hope I can pass on.

PS: any Links, tips, info on Solid Copper Spades(personal choice) that would fit Vintage Mc Terminal Blocks would be awesome. Also good source for some Bullet Banana Plugs. I kinda thought about using some Cloth Covered Copper Wire. I've seen some used on other systems. And they gave a real Retro look to the vintage gear on display.

Thanks once again.
 
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unfairlane said:
Ever seen a real poweramp? Had a look inside of it? One of those they like to say "you can weld with this one"? Here is a look inside one:

no-333-2-mark-levinson.jpg




ml-333-04_39470.jpg


Notice the d imensions of those rails going from the powercaps and way back to the terminals. Then add a 14awg doorbellwire into your highend-speakers and feel smart.

Here is a filtercoil from a high-end speaker btw, notice the rectangular 2x6mm thread. That`s Close to 6awg. Why would anyone...

MCoil_N.png


A Toyota Yaris might do with only a 1,5" exhaust system, that does not mean that 1,5" "is all you ever need"
Click to expand...


Wow Unfairlane, are those your real amps? Or, are you just posting picks of stuff you don't own to prove "Your Point of View"? Whatever that is. I can only go by my experience with what I actually own. A pair of really nice vintage McIntosh amps. You must have a really high electric bill with those big amps of yours.
 
unfairlane said:
Ever seen a real poweramp? Had a look inside of it? One of those they like to say "you can weld with this one"? Here is a look inside one:

Then add a 14awg doorbellwire into your highend-speakers and feel smart.

Here is a filtercoil from a high-end speaker btw, notice the rectangular 2x6mm thread. That`s Close to 6awg. Why would anyone...

A Toyota Yaris might do with only a 1,5" exhaust system, that does not mean that 1,5" "is all you ever need"
Click to expand...

My biggest amp is 270 wpc so yes I have saw a real amp. I'm sure that there are some that would scoff at it but not too many.

If your house has 14 awg doorbell wire in it you must have one heck of a doorbell system.

Comparing a gasoline engine to a stereo isn't a good comparison. An engine is an air pump and the air that goes in has to come out.

I have already stated that I'm not saying that heavy wire doesn't make a difference but would like some of the science behind it. I just want to learn and in time I'll probably try heavier wire myself. I'm not arguing but just asking. There are some links in this thread that I haven't had a chance to read but fully intend to.
 
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goodolpg said:
Seems like that little itty bitty teeny tiny filament in most fuses would be a huge bottle neck, whether inside a piece of gear or a speaker.
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It isn't. The resistance and current-carrying capacity of a wire is proportional to both length and diameter (i.e., gauge.)

Therefore:

A short, thin, wire -- like that in a fuse or inside a power transistor -- has relatively low resistance and can carry a large current.

A long, thick wire -- like that in a welding cable or a power line -- has relatively low resistance and can carry a large current.

A long, thin wire has relatively high resistance and cannot carry a large current.
 
Bob Heil's music system is a just 10,000 watts per channel. Paul Klipsch educated Bob on power he saw the light and reduced his system from 15,000 watts per channel. Bob Heil runs gigantic movie theater speakers for his personal sound system.
 
I'm easy. If anything sounds like an improvement to someone then it is an improvement, at least for that person. If I can't hear the difference, I'm willing to take his word for it. I might not pull the trigger myself, but I don't criticize those who make the purchase. Maybe he hears differently than I, maybe better. Maybe he has deeper pockets. Best not to be too dogmatic, imo. Exposure to various dissenting opinions regarding a plethora of audio subjects among folks I respect on this site has lead me to this view, and changed my outlook gradually over the last decade. Live and let live.
 
Blue Shadow said:
Are you basing your strong commitment to skinny wire on that 35 wpc receiver? I don't think the large power amp manufacturers would agree and as I have stated I also enjoy the improved sonics of thicker copper wire for higher powered amps. You can use whatever you want. Enjoy
Click to expand...

Ummm what improved sonics? Use whatever your amps instructions say to use. Like others have said, its the final connections, not the gauge of the wire that is the most important. If an amp maker says to use say 16awg wire and somebody uses 14, will there be a difference that can be measured? I am in the camp that there is nothing one can really hear by putting bigger AWG wire than the manufacturer recommends.
 
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