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Speaker Wire, Gauge, etc.

Actually, at least to my somewhat naive eye, as far as cable discussion threads go, this one is both civil and focused.

I'm in complete agreement and I hope it stays that way.

I'm going to throw one more twist in this discussion which applies to me anyway. I usually don't play my music very loud and have efficient speakers so for the most part I'm only using a few watts of output. Will heavier speaker wire make a difference at lower sound levels?

I've been very busy and still haven't read all of the links. At some point and time I will try a heavier wire and see if I can hear the difference. My old ears aren't very good but hopefully there will be a difference that I can hear.
 
Any conductor will give you sound, a thinner wire will give you a thinner sound

And a fatter wire will give you fatter sound....

I read somewhere that the further away the speaker is from the source of amplification, the smaller the gage. Of course, there are dozens of reviewers with dozens of options.
 
I'd like for somebody to explain the reason for speaker wire heavier than 14 gauge copper. That's what I use. I'm not making any judgments but would like scientific proof that heavy speaker wire is better and I'm not saying that heavier wouldn't be better.

Most houses in my area use 14 gauge wire throughout most of the electrical system and would most likely be used anyplace a stereo would be. Most likely you would have more than just an amp/receiver sharing that same circuit. Most people don't run speaker wire very far in their house. I'm not sure what gauge most of my equipment cords are but they sure don't look very heavy. Why would you need heavier wire going out of a amp/receiver than what is coming in. Some of the incoming power is lost to heat or whatever.

I'm not talking about the 1% with the elite systems with dedicated circuits. I'm just talking about the average guy even though that would cover a wide variety and quality of equipment.

I'm not wanting to start a flaming war but just would like some facts.

There's a big electrical difference between the two examples you gave.

Your house mains is running (presumably) Alternating Current (AC). Whereas the signal between your amp and your speakers is Direct Current (DC).

While the need to increase wire gauge to increase the amount of AC Amps pulled through it still exists, it's significantly more forgiving than if it was DC, especially in longer runs. That's why your house wiring can go the distances it does and provide the current it can without the need for it to be very large gauge cable.

DC current, on the other hand, is a lot more difficult to work with in this regard; It does not like to travel long distances. In order to prevent loss of current, as the distance from power source to load gets longer, the gauge of the wires must get smaller (fatter).

It's also the whole reason modern electric grids are AC to begin with. Go back in time to when we first started understanding electricity (Tesla Era), and you'll see that we originally tried to do DC because it's easier to work with (notice that many modern household electrical items have some type of transformer to convert the AC back to DC). But we soon realized that AC was so much easier to supply long distances. To supply comparable DC power those same distances (and I'm talking the miles it travels from power plant to our homes), it would require comically large cables, thus very impractical.

Back to home:

For most home stereos, as you've probably seen stated in your manual and here in your thread, 16 & 14 seem to be the common gauges recommended and used for speakers. But, the manual probably only suggests that size up to a certain distance, and should mention going a size or two bigger if the distance between the amp and the speakers it to be greater. Once again, it's because it's carrying DC current. Like it was mentioned earlier in the thread, it's a common misconception that 'well I've seen the wires in the inside of my amp and they're not big at all, so why should I bother going any bigger when running cables on the outside?' - it all comes back to current and distance.

Those runs inside the amp are a few inches to maybe a foot or so, so there's not much (if any) current loss in there, even in the smaller gauge wire.

But move to the outside of the amp, and you might be running 6, 8, 10, or maybe even 20 feet of cable out to the speakers - (and don't forget, since we're dealing with DC, that's a round trip current run to each, so that distance is technically doubled). So in order to make sure that the full current travels that whole distance with minimal losses, the cable gauge needs to get smaller (fatter), as the distance gets longer.

To visualize this concept a little better, here's a chart I used when I was installing the DC wiring for my solar installation - from the panels, to the controller, to the battery bank, and to the inverter, the same concept applied there too.

57228076ef240ed796b328a7d6387eac.jpg


I hope this helps make it a little easier to understand.

Now, once you've determined what gauge cable is the most practical for your application, then you get to dive into the wide variety of flavors cables come in - from plain old lamp cord, to supremely finished exotics. And how you determine which, is entirely up to you and your wallet.

Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
The main differense between me and you is that you have Your theoretic "knowledge" but close to no experiense. I have both. One of us might be a bit wrong.
I think you might have confused me with someone else. I have both theoretic knowledge and many years of electronics and audio experience.

But you're right that one of us might be a bit wrong... ;)
 
There is nothing theoretical about the effect of resistance as a function of gauge and run length. It is mathematical fact.

Oh there shure is. A lot. There is a big differense between theories and how things really works.

And again; I know this because I have tryed it all. I know what is too much or enough and too little. Not from some calculations but from years of research with high-end equipment.
 
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-gXUgBtAXgU4/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_wire.html

"
Thick wire (12 or 14 gauge) is recommended for long wire runs, high power applications, and low-impedance speakers (4 or 6 ohms).

For relatively short runs (less than 50 feet) to 8 ohm speakers, 16 gauge wire will usually do just fine. It’s cost-effective and easy to work with.

There you go. Easy peasy.


Less than 50 feet, 100 watts or less there is no real reason for thicker than 16AWG wire.
 
I recently reached out to one of the experts on here whom I trust. He recommended purchasing some cheap house branded high strand count copper wire in 12 gauge from one of the popular online supliers.

I would also add that Deoxit has made an appreciable difference in sound on my old speaker wires by removing corrosion. I especially noticed it when cleaning those brass jumpers on the back of my bi-wire capable speakers.
 
There is nothing theoretical about the effect of resistance as a function of gauge and run length. It is mathematical fact.

Oh there shure is. A lot. There is a big differense between theories and how things really works.

And again; I know this because I have tryed it all. I know what is too much or enough and too little. Not from some calculations but from years of research with high-end equipment.


62caddy is correct. But some people confuse the actual correct technical information with perceived sound quality as a function of a change in whatever (wire gauge, material, dialectic material and so on).

62caddy did not include any comment on the impact on sound quality, he just stated the well known and understood relationship between the gauge of the wire and the length of the run on the resistance of same.

unfairlane do you disagree with the following statements?

The longer the wire the more resistance, the thinner the wire the more resistance and with more resistance comes a greater voltage drop (I^2*R defines the loss).

The impact on perceived sound quality is a different discussion. Is this the point of your post? The way you responded to 62caddy it is not necessarily clear. It is not a bad idea to separate how things work on the technical side with the perceived impact on sound quality of the same.

Alan0354 started this thread (it is rather long and somewhat technical). It shows measurable differences (at least in Alan0354's measurements). The perceived impact on sound quality I will leave to the listener. BTW, this link may have been posted previously, but it is still a good read.
 
That is not correct. It is alternating current in the range of, in general, 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. It is definitely AC.

Correction noted since it's technically not a constant, uninterrupted voltage applied to + as true DC would be. But it's also not like mains power since it's not a constant higher voltage 50 or 60 HZ wave.

Variable power, variable frequency AC would have been a more accurate way to describe it.

Trying to differentiate it from standard AC mains power, and why AC mains can be higher gauge cable led me to treat our audio signal as if we were dealing in DC, since the concept of using larger cable for longer speaker runs is to prevent power loss like with DC.

Blame it on a 3 AM post. LOL
 
Technically by definition, it is alternating current because the polarity swings from positive to negative (it alternates). An alternating current does not have to be any specific frequency or wave form as long as the frequency is greater than zero, the amplitude crosses zero and swings from positive to negative/negative to positive.

It is common and accurate to call audio signals AC signals with out any additional descriptors, although an audio signal is typically a complex waveform.
 
Any conductor will give you sound, a thinner wire will give you a thinner sound

And a fatter wire will give you fatter sound....

I like full bodied sound so I guess I need voluptuous speaker cables. Good thing one set is one of those good looking sets of speaker wire, bought real cheap, price of the actual wire that were made all pretty. Don't know if I can tell the difference between those and another equal length, equal gauge, both copper cables. But the pretty ones sure make the system look better during listening sessions when they are visible. And that is important or we wouldn't be grabbing old vintage gear we would go for those plain jane black receivers and such folks make today.

Gotta have at least decent looking cables for it to sound best...
 
I like full bodied sound so I guess I need voluptuous speaker cables. Good thing one set is one of those good looking sets of speaker wire, bought real cheap, price of the actual wire that were made all pretty. Don't know if I can tell the difference between those and another equal length, equal gauge, both copper cables. But the pretty ones sure make the system look better during listening sessions when they are visible. And that is important or we wouldn't be grabbing old vintage gear we would go for those plain jane black receivers and such folks make today.

Gotta have at least decent looking cables for it to sound best...

Funny...

But it is true how so many people are more visually enticed over the appearance of their equipment than over the sound. Just look at people that just have to have early silver faced CD players that sound like crapola. But, I like big bad sound cause I have an early big bad black (BBB) receiver.....
 
But truthfully....

I think it's the condition of the signal prior to the signal entering the speaker wire. Behind your amps output jacks you have capacitors and the speaker crossover has a capacitor with the speaker wire in between. So shouldn't it be based on capacitance ???
 
A while back, I had substituted 22 AWG for the 14 AWG that had been in the system. The same length of 20' was used and speaker load is 8 ohm.

22 gauge of this length represents well over the 5% of speaker impedance maximum recommendation of speaker wire and still there was no noticeable sonic degradation. Even bass control did not seem to suffer with the 22 gauge wire but in all fairness, this was not an instant A/B listening comparison.

Truthfully, if the wires were swapped without my knowledge, I'd probably never be the wiser for it and seriously doubt anyone else would either.
 
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