BamaBilly
Motorcycles and Music
There are countless examples of folks doing scientific tests on cables and pointing out audio or differences in them. Science rarely plays a part in what an audiophile believes.
Speaker wire update-- Don't use extension cords!
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BamaBilly
Motorcycles and Music
I’ll help, he was being facetious
BamaBilly
Motorcycles and Music
Maybe you could go ahead and explain how to measure something that isn’t detectable? Also food and sound isn’t exactly the same thing.
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
close enough. both depend on human senses being able to detect something.
google "threshold of audibility" and educate yourself.
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
It is usually the other way around. Analytical methods are qualified and/or validated for, among other things, two different parameters.
Limit of detection. (LOD)
Limit of quantification. (LOQ)
Most quantitative analytical methods can reliably detect an analyte/parameter of interest (i.e., confirm its presence) at a lower level than that at which the amount of the analyte/parameter is present.
LOQ is typically 3 to 10 times the LOD in my line of work.
Limit of detection. (LOD)
Limit of quantification. (LOQ)
Most quantitative analytical methods can reliably detect an analyte/parameter of interest (i.e., confirm its presence) at a lower level than that at which the amount of the analyte/parameter is present.
LOQ is typically 3 to 10 times the LOD in my line of work.
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
i have absolutely no idea what you just said there.
fill35u
Super Member
I'm pretty sure @the skipper is making the distinction between "measurements", which implies something quantified by technology, vs "detection", implied that our own senses can even distinguish a presence.
Obviously one can measure with senses or detect with technology. And detection in the first place is necessary for measurements, you are correct there. And technology is just a link in the chain, ultimately we must use our senses to interpret or communicate the results into our brains. But just because something is measurable with technology doesn't mean it is detectable by our body senses alone.
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
true, and if one thinks they hear a difference, it may be due to expectations. We're very good at fooling ourselves. To verify that/if a difference truly exists, a DBT can usually clarify that.
BamaBilly
Motorcycles and Music
Obviously there are plenty of things that aren’t detectable by our bodies, millions of things in fact. I never said a word about what is detectable by the human body. But just because you can’t detect it doesn’t mean it isn’t measurably better. Also for the record, I haven’t stated my opinion on speaker cables.
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
this is audio, dude. it's what we hear with our ears. if our ears can't hear it, what does a measurement where we need machines discern and record it and our eyes to read the results matter? Are you saying you would pay more for wire that measures better even if you can't hear the difference? that's a bit anal, wouldn't you agree? buy, hey, it's your money.
...unless you just want to get involved in mental masturbation (which sure seems to be the case here) and that, like taking a dump, is something that's better done alone. have a ball.
skipper out.
...unless you just want to get involved in mental masturbation (which sure seems to be the case here) and that, like taking a dump, is something that's better done alone. have a ball.
skipper out.
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BamaBilly
Motorcycles and Music
You’ve clearly missed my point here. On a lighter note, maybe mix in some capitol letters the next time you’re trying to convince someone that you’re intelligent.
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
balling, yes, but masturbation, no. when i sense someone's hand creeping up my leg, I run if it's a guy. I started to gt this feeling in post 184. some want others to play with them but homey don't play those games.
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At what point was I irrational? I certainly didn't insult your intelligence or your methods. I disagreed with you.
My "theories" are based on 35+ years of experience as an electrician, following the same standards used by competent manufacturers and technicians.
When I wrote, "spring clips deform the wire strands, thereby increasing resistance." I was referring to the same kind of deformation that you can see here:
Those bite marks were caused by spring clips. The damaged area is a source of increased resistance because the conductive area of the wire has been reduced.
Damaged wires don't conduct signal or voltage as well as undamaged. Spring clips also tend to splay the strands of the wire out, only making direct contact with a few of them.
Notice how the wire strands in the picture are seperated? Splayed wire strands don't carry signal or voltage as well as tightly bundled (or tinned) stranded wire.
That's all speaker wire is doing, carrying a signal and voltage.
For your entertainment, I can offer this link to the industry standard for electrical wire assembly. http://www.ipctraining.org/demos/pdf/drm-wha-b.pdf
If this doesn't seem rational to you, then please carry on relying on your experience.
I'm here to discuss and learn, not to change your religion.
How so ??
Differing cables have differing signal transmission characteristics and differing impedance characteristics..
Different coating materials have differing capacitive effects and cable topology i.e. proximity of wires creates induced EMI which certainly has the potential to affect signal transmission ..
There's likely as much that's unknown about the actual energy flow characteristics of wire as is known ..
An open mind is a good thing ..
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the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
So, we're playing the experience game now, are we?At what point was I irrational? I certainly didn't insult your intelligence or your methods. I disagreed with you.
My "theories" are based on 35+ years of experience as an electrician, following the same standards used by competent manufacturers and technicians.
When I wrote, "spring clips deform the wire strands, thereby increasing resistance." I was referring to the same kind of deformation that you can see here:
Picture by brunomarcs
Those bite marks were caused by spring clips. The damaged area is a source of increased resistance because the conductive area of the wire has been reduced.
Damaged wires don't conduct signal or voltage as well as undamaged. Spring clips also tend to splay the strands of the wire out, only making direct contact with a few of them.
Notice how the wire strands in the picture are seperated? Splayed wire strands don't carry signal or voltage as well as tightly bundled (or tinned) stranded wire.
That's all speaker wire is doing, carrying a signal and voltage.
For your entertainment, I can offer this link to the industry standard for electrical wire assembly. http://www.ipctraining.org/demos/pdf/drm-wha-b.pdf
If this doesn't seem rational to you, then please carry on relying on your experience.
I'm here to discuss and learn, not to change your religion.
Well, I've been playing the audio game since I built my first simple stereo amp from two cannibalized all American five radios in '63, repaired TV's and radios while in high school. installed high end (in '68) stereos before going into the service to install and repair microwave communications system, which included mil spec soldering and working with waveguide. Not to mention having had a hand in the hobby since then, So, I can pretty much tell facts that matter from technobabble meant to impress the unknowing. so, aside from being unsightly, can you provide any proof that it audibly degrades the signal? I didn't think so.
Again. I stand by my statement and actually find your statement humorous..
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Then our personal experience is pretty much the same. I seem to be about 10 years younger than you, which puts you in your 70's, I'm guessing.
Remember Heathkits? I grew up on them. TV repair, radios, etc. When cable de-scrambler boxes were still a thing, I made decent side money assembling and selling them. Times change.
I did my 20 in the Marines, working on aircraft electrical systems, among other things. I kept on working in flight test, after I retired. By some odd stroke of fortune, I found a second career testing satellite
antennas. Funny old world, innit?
I still fix stereo and video stuff though. Old hobbies die hard.
All I can say in reply to your "technobabble" comment, is that perhaps you should read your own signature line?
Being rude to strangers from behind a keyboard doesn't require any balls at all. You just need a keyboard.
o7
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