Speaker wire update-- Don't use extension cords!

[brunomarcs]

I've been using Kimber 12 tc 4' runs and I fell for the as long as it's of sufficient ga, wire makes no difference! I bought a fake AQ wel reference wire on the cheap, 99% certain it's fake, but what a difference it's made. I sent in some pics of the spades to Bochinno and he says there his spades and there 4n copper fm 27 spades from 2006. The neg has four silvers and 4 coppers, the pos has two silvers, six coppers. I wish everyone had a chance to try a wire like this or even a real one.

 

[El Rubio]

While I’m certain most people agree that damaged cables or connectors affect performance, I don’t believe the post I had quoted was referring to that. Specifically, I was asking for details on how “the laws of physics support cables sounding different” in the context that it was made.

 

[the skipper]

Bare wires in the spring clips of a speaker may work, but are not the best.

Actually, bare wire is the best for spring clips. Assuming the spring clips are in good shape, the malleability of the soft copper wire when under the constant pressure of the spring clips pushing down assures a good, strong connection.

 

[tarior]

Flex tips are also nice for use with equipment that has spring terminals. Not sure that they have any major advantage over bare wire, other than giving the speaker cable a more finished and tidy look, which is worth something to me.

 

[kevintomb]

hout sharp bends.

You might be able to notice some improvement using heavier gauge wires, or you might not. At the frequency range of human ears on real humans, it pretty much becomes a subjective exercise. Everybody's ears are different.

You might THINK you notice some improvement using heavier gauge wires, or you might not.

At audio frequencies, and at the very short lengths of wire we are using, there can only exist very tiny differences in the final sound output.

What someone thinks or believes they might hear, is not the same as there being an actual real difference.
I think that is the fatal flaw in all the Speaker cable threads.

Anyone can claim to hear something, but it is only a claim.

 

[Audiofreak71]

You might THINK you notice some improvement using heavier gauge wires, or you might not.

At audio frequencies, and at the very short lengths of wire we are using, there can only exist very tiny differences in the final sound output.

What someone thinks or believes they might hear, is not the same as there being an actual real difference.
I think that is the fatal flaw in all the Speaker cable threads.

Anyone can claim to hear something, but it is only a claim.

Same applies if you change after THINK you put DONT

Audiofreak71

 

[PhooBar]

Actually, bare wire is the best for spring clips. Assuming the spring clips are in good shape, the malleability of the soft copper wire when under the constant pressure of the spring clips pushing down assures a good, strong connection.

I disagree.
The bite of the spring clips contact area is not consistent on the loose wire strands.
Spring clips deform the wire strands, thereby increasing resistance. Notice the bite marks on these wire ends?
Bare copper wire can corrode fairly quickly, especially in a dissimilar metal connection. (e.g. steel on copper) I live near the Atlantic coast, so humidity can make this worse.
I'm going to convert my IA4000's spring clips over to brass screw terminals, just for this reason. Blame it on my OCD.
If you're going stay with them, a couple of drops of WD-40 or 3-in-1 oil on the bare wire ends might help slow oxidiation.

At audio frequencies, and at the very short lengths of wire we are using, there can only exist very tiny differences in the final sound output.
What someone thinks or believes they might hear, is not the same as there being an actual real difference.
I think that is the fatal flaw in all the Speaker cable threads.

brunomarcs might disagree with you on that.
What's the difference between what you think sounds better and an actual, real difference?
"At the frequency range of human ears on real humans, it pretty much becomes a subjective exercise."
Keyword being 'subjective'.

 

[the skipper]

I disagree.
The bite of the spring clips contact area is not consistent on the loose wire strands.
Spring clips deform the wire strands, thereby increasing resistance. Notice the bite marks on these wire ends?
Bare copper wire can corrode fairly quickly, especially in a dissimilar metal connection. (e.g. steel on copper) I live near the Atlantic coast, so humidity can make this worse.
I'm going to convert my IA4000's spring clips over to brass screw terminals, just for this reason. Blame it on my OCD.
If you're going stay with them, a couple of drops of WD-40 or 3-in-1 oil on the bare wire ends might help slow oxidiation.




brunomarcs might disagree with you on that.
What's the difference between what you think sounds better and an actual, real difference?
"At the frequency range of human ears on real humans, it pretty much becomes a subjective exercise."
Keyword being 'subjective'.

well, I guess we'll agree to disagree then. You've got your theories and I've got my experience.

 

[kevintomb]

I disagree.
The bite of the spring clips contact area is not consistent on the loose wire strands.
Spring clips deform the wire strands, thereby increasing resistance. Notice the bite marks on these wire ends?
Bare copper wire can corrode fairly quickly, especially in a dissimilar metal connection. (e.g. steel on copper) I live near the Atlantic coast, so humidity can make this worse.
I'm going to convert my IA4000's spring clips over to brass screw terminals, just for this reason. Blame it on my OCD.
If you're going stay with them, a couple of drops of WD-40 or 3-in-1 oil on the bare wire ends might help slow oxidiation.




brunomarcs might disagree with you on that.
What's the difference between what you think sounds better and an actual, real difference?
"At the frequency range of human ears on real humans, it pretty much becomes a subjective exercise."
Keyword being 'subjective'.

What one "thinks" is often not based on repeatable valid reality. And when scrutinized more, what one thinks, tends to not be able to be verified.

"Hey that big coffee can exhaust tip makes my car feel a good bit faster", Feelings, thoughts emotions, biases, and so on are often not reality. Especially when those thoughts, feelings and subjective impressions can not even be verified to be repeatable., even with the same listener.

In other words, "My system sounds better on a nice sunny day". That is in my mind. Not something "real"
So often we change to some "Better" cable, expecting a better sound maybe, or maybe just listening more intently to "See" if there is a better sound or not, but in the process, we are not listening in the same way we did before, therefore bringing our "thinking" into the equation.

I have heard "sounds and things" in some recordings, I never noticed before, but that does not constitute my system suddenly changed or became more revealing. It only shows my mind, was focusing on something that I had not before.

 

[kevintomb]

While I’m certain most people agree that damaged cables or connectors affect performance, I don’t believe the post I had quoted was referring to that. Specifically, I was asking for details on how “the laws of physics support cables sounding different” in the context that it was made.

I am willing to bet you already know the answer.
I suspect it is common knowledge that at audio frequencies and the very short runs most of us use, you realize using any "Normal" sized wire, there will be VERY little impact on the final sound.

Is this a fishing expedition, to hope from input from those that "Hear" huge changes in wires, to explain what they hear?

 

[tarior]

In other words, "My system sounds better on a nice sunny day". That is in my mind. Not something "real"

There may actually be something to a system sounding better or worse with changing weather conditions. Changes in barometric pressure and humidity can certainly effect the way that humans perceive sound, and maybe have some small effect on the way that speakers turn electrical energy into acoustic energy. Not to mention the way weather can effect mood, which will also change the way people not only perceive sound, but how they respond to music.
Food for thought.

 

[brunomarcs]

I got to say fellows I wasn't expecting much before I swapped the cables, all I hear is it doesn't make any difference or maybe only subtlety's!

Let me tell you something. the speakers sprang to life, noise levels completely gone The whole front is a wall of sound, not focused in one spot as before. An immersion of sound if you will, imaging across the spectrum, The holy grail I found. Just have to replace your old speaker cable.

Two weeks later I'm back to where I was hearing deficiencies again. Albeit it's a lot better than beforeI. I'll put the Kimber back in so I can make sure it's not a placebo and that the other one really does work!

 

[Semanon]

The problem the OP had was clearly due the use of HD extension cord. The ones from Lowe's are far superior with better timbral efficiency and lower time-wavelength resolution. HD presented a dark and veiled sound with brittle lower mids, while Lowe's deep and wide soundstage was clearly the winner and the tight bass line extended graciously and effortlessly with notes of chocolate and cinnamon.

 

[Semanon]

noise levels completely gone

I get that different cables sound different. The physics say they must. Better is subjective. How much better is even more so. Still, I simply cant wrap my head around how a cable can eliminate (or create) noise. Please help me understand.

 

[GChief]

The bite of the spring clips contact area is not consistent on the loose wire strands.
Spring clips deform the wire strands, thereby increasing resistance. Notice the bite marks on these wire ends?

Agree with @skipper on this one, also from real world experience of doing hook-ups many days all day long. Those connectors are designed for bare wire. Same as some to the Phoenix connectors I work with everyday for control wire.

 

[the skipper]

Agree with @skipper on this one, also from real world experience of doing hook-ups many days all day long. Those connectors are designed for bare wire. Same as some to the Phoenix connectors I work with everyday for control wire.

thank you. I didn't think engaging in a rational discussion with him was possible but, I gotta say, this statement had me curious: "spring clips deform the wire strands, thereby increasing resistance."

 

[El Rubio]

I am willing to bet you already know the answer.
I suspect it is common knowledge that at audio frequencies and the very short runs most of us use, you realize using any "Normal" sized wire, there will be VERY little impact on the final sound.

Is this a fishing expedition, to hope from input from those that "Hear" huge changes in wires, to explain what they hear?

Fishing expedition? A specific claim was made. I asked for clarification. It happens all the time in normal conversations. For example,why did you put the HEAR in quotes?

 

[GChief]

thank you. I didn't think engaging in a rational discussion with him was possible but, I gotta say, this statement had me curious: "spring clips deform the wire strands, thereby increasing resistance."

You have been around here longer than I have. You know there is plenty of crazy typing going on

 

[John James]

Covid fingers?

 

[kevintomb]

Fishing expedition? A specific claim was made. I asked for clarification. It happens all the time in normal conversations. For example,why did you put the HEAR in quotes?

Because what goes into ones ears, is often not what they actually "hear". (hearing is brain related as all human senses are.)

I think we all realize speaker cables do not make much difference. If they did, there would not even be discussions/debates about it.

It would be quite easy to find not only evidence but lots of proof and explanation as to why they matter so much.

But instead we only get anecdotal tales of what people think they "hear", on audio forums, and usually of the Day/Night variety, and never anything backing up the tales, and absolutely no blind comparisons etc.

I am often inclined to believe many of the anecdotes are shills for cables.