Stanton 681EEE New Cartridge Equivalents

[boreas]

Though some will say otherwise, break-in is real. The effects, however, are subtle. In other words, if the stylus sounds terrible out of the box, it'll always sound terrible. Conversely, and perhaps obviously, a stylus that sounds good straight out of the box will still sound good - better(?) - after it breaks in. Most styli need very little break-in. Some require none (or the changes that occur with break-in are so subtle as to pass unnoticed).

John

 

[mccalljd]

Which Russell do you actually have? Is it the PM4052DE? PM4036DE? In any event, I have not found that there is any kind of break in period with either of them. They seem to work well right out of the box and I can't say that I've noticed much of a change if any over the course of racking up hours of play.

For the Jico D1200, mine is still too new to be sure. What I can say is that right out of the box, I was immediately impressed. I really was not expecting it to perform much better than the PM4052DE, as I'd always thought that stylus was very, very good (and it is). I still preferred the Pfanstiehl 4822-DEE, though.

But the top end of the Jico D1200 was so much cleaner and focused than the EVG/Russell and the bass tighter that it was immediately apparent to me that ordering Jico styli directly from Jico was a great way to go. If it does break in and improve in some way, that will be excellent. But I don't run it exclusively these days and am currently on a Grado Black2 kick (doesn't sound at all like a Stanton or Pickering, so not recommending it in this thread). In other words, I'm not likely to know any time soon if there's a break in period on the Jico D1200 and what it might be. It just sounds great from the get go so it's not a concern for me.

To be honest, I don't know which Russell model it is as I bought it on Ebay and it's sometimes frustrating to get much info on what you are buying other than the basics I am getting better results with the brush removed.

 

[mccalljd]

Well, if it's an elliptical Russell model, it's either the PM4052DE or the PM4036DE. The difference is that the PM4052DE has a narrower cantilever and a lighter suggested tracking force because it's more compliant. If its the PM4036DE, it's a bit more robust. Both sound great, just the PM4036DE needs to track a tad heavier. I think on my arm it needs at least 1.75g to avoid sibilance. The PM4052DE tracks as light as 1.25g but sounds fuller at 1.5g.

The Jico D1200 tracks at 1.25g on my SL-1200 and sounds right. It may track as low as 1g, but I'm fuzzy in the memory department right now.

This one tracks between 3/4 and 1.5 grams, so I am assuming it to be thePM4052DE. I am set close to 1.4 grams currently.

 

[boreas]

To be honest, I don't know which Russell model it is as I bought it on Ebay and it's sometimes frustrating to get much info on what you are buying other than the basics I am getting better results with the brush removed.

Not surprising. The brushes that come with aftermarket styli are significantly inferior to the originals.

I think that needlestein was asking for the model number of the stylus. If the stylus was shipped in its original packaging, the model number would be on the label.

I have to confess that I've never seen a Russell branded styli. Russell Industries now owns a handful of old audio brands, like Empire, EVG. and PRB. In my experience, the styli they offer have all been EVG or Empire branded, mostly the former, but as I said, I've never seen a Russell stylus.

John

 

[boreas]

This one tracks between 3/4 and 1.5 grams, so I am assuming it to be thePM4052DE. I am set close to 1.4 grams currently.

Just to cover all the bases, when using the brush (which I take it you are) it's necessary to add 1g to the tracking force. In other words, when using the bush, the recommended tracking force for that stylus is between 1.75 and 2.5g so, at 1.4g with brush, you're tracking at a net 0.4g which is far too low.

John

 

[mccalljd]

Not surprising. The brushes that come with aftermarket styli are significantly inferior to the originals.

I think that needlestein was asking for the model number of the stylus. If the stylus was shipped in its original packaging, the model number would be on the label.

I have to confess that I've never seen a Russell branded styli. Russell Industries now owns a handful of old audio brands, like Empire, EVG. and PRB. In my experience, the styli they offer have all been EVG or Empire branded, mostly the former, but as I said, I've never seen a Russell stylus.

John

The package it came in only had the model number 833 DEE, which doesn't match anything Needlestein mentioned. I did see EVG on the side, so who knows what I have.

 

[mccalljd]

I hope you agree that the Jico D1200 is an improvement!

I take it back. I looked at the package the stylus came in and it said EVG 822-DEE. The Ebay info said Russell. Glad I only paid $33 for it.

 

[eriathomas]

I take it back. I looked at the package the stylus came in and it said EVG 822-DEE. The Ebay info said Russell. Glad I only paid $33 for it.

That's what I just sent back. It was junk, the cantilever was way off center.

 

[boreas]

The package it came in only had the model number 833 DEE, which doesn't match anything Needlestein mentioned. I did see EVG on the side, so who knows what I have.

No such animal.

I take it back. I looked at the package the stylus came in and it said EVG 822-DEE. The Ebay info said Russell. Glad I only paid $33 for it.

In the Pfanstiehl numbering system which virtually everybody uses, 822 is the appropriate stylus grouping for the Stanton 680/681 cartridges and an 822-DEE is the stylus for the 681 EE which was the "Calibration Standard" cartridge prior to the introduction of the "Triple E"

John

 

[boreas]

That's what I just sent back. It was junk, the cantilever was way off center.

Who was the seller? These shouldn't be junk so it would be nice to know whose stock to avoid.

John

 

[eriathomas]

Who was the seller? These shouldn't be junk so it would be nice to know whose stock to avoid.

John

Sorry, it was "dualparts" on the auction site.

 

[mccalljd]

Who was the seller? These shouldn't be junk so it would be nice to know whose stock to avoid.

John

The sellers name is Dualparts.

 

[boreas]

Sorry, it was "dualparts" on the auction site.

If that's who mccalljd bought his from (as we now know he did) that might indicate a problem with his supply. I've never heard anything negative about them though.

John

 

[eriathomas]

Certainly appears that way with the 3 bad one so far. Guess of to Jico it is, or maybe have Gary check it before sending it from tvom.

LPGear said they inspect all their styli before shipping out, so I might try that route. I'm sure it's just an overpriced EVG though.

 

[mccalljd]

I don't necessarily think the stylus I have sounds bad, but it does have (or at least I perceive it to have) a certain weirdness about the channel separation and one channel seems to be a bit louder than the other so I had to compensate a bit on the balance. The same speaker that has the loudest channel on it has some fizzy/hiss sound to it on certain notes (especially with vocals) although I haven't been able to pin it down to an issue with my amp or the speaker (I have changed all the drivers out in this speaker and it didn't help). I would also swear the separation changes and the instruments seem to migrate back and forth between channels. I wouldn't think a piano on Tubular bells would shift from one speaker to the other, at least I never noticed it doing that in some forty years of listening to that album. I am going to order the Pickering D2000 just to see if it is an improvement.

 

[boreas]

What about cartridge alignment? It's often necessary to realign the cartridge when swapping one manufacturer's stylus for another of different manufacture, the reason being differing cantilever lengths throwing the overhang setting out of spec.

John

 

[eriathomas]

I misread the vague description .

 

[Grenadeslio]

I don't necessarily think the stylus I have sounds bad, but it does have (or at least I perceive it to have) a certain weirdness about the channel separation and one channel seems to be a bit louder than the other so I had to compensate a bit on the balance. The same speaker that has the loudest channel on it has some fizzy/hiss sound to it on certain notes (especially with vocals) although I haven't been able to pin it down to an issue with my amp or the speaker (I have changed all the drivers out in this speaker and it didn't help). I would also swear the separation changes and the instruments seem to migrate back and forth between channels. I wouldn't think a piano on Tubular bells would shift from one speaker to the other, at least I never noticed it doing that in some forty years of listening to that album. I am going to order the Pickering D2000 just to see if it is an improvement.

The reason I didn't like the Pickering on my Grace, sibilance on certain records, didn't matter if the 1200 or 625. Not bashing the Pickering, the 1200 is my favorite on my Thorens, absolutely no sibilance issues, outstanding articulation without being harsh in any way. With a very musical presentation that just sounds, well, real.

Not sure why, the Grados worked fine also, but again, the synergy of the Grace / Grace combination just worked. It's one of the exasperating and fun things about this part of the hobby. Hopefully the different stylus will do the trick, but it might just be poor synergy that's only highlighted on certain songs/records.

Do you have any friends with a table that might have a cartridge or two you could audition, should help you decide which way to go before spending more money.

 

[mccalljd]

What about cartridge alignment? It's often necessary to realign the cartridge when swapping one manufacturer's stylus for another of different manufacture, the reason being differing cantilever lengths throwing the overhang setting out of spec.

John

The manual for my turntable suggests that the optimum distance from the back of the headshell washer and the stylus tip is 49 mm, which is what I set mine for. It is incredibly hard to judge vertical alignment and center position on the thing, though. I've done my best.

That’s a Stanton style. I don’t really like that stylus. It’s got kind of a dull sound and also prone to sibilance at less than 2g. Seems to be made for leaden arms. I’m not a big fan of the EVG 822-DEEE either, though it’s an improvement over the DEE. Your sound stage and balance screwing around could be due in part to the lack of suspension tie wire.

I am going to order the Jico D1200 since you think highly of it. At $56.00, it won't break the bank.

 

[mccalljd]

The reason I didn't like the Pickering on my Grace, sibilance on certain records, didn't matter if the 1200 or 625. Not bashing the Pickering, the 1200 is my favorite on my Thorens, absolutely no sibilance issues, outstanding articulation without being harsh in any way. With a very musical presentation that just sounds, well, real.

Not sure why, the Grados worked fine also, but again, the synergy of the Grace / Grace combination just worked. It's one of the exasperating and fun things about this part of the hobby. Hopefully the different stylus will do the trick, but it might just be poor synergy that's only highlighted on certain songs/records.

Do you have any friends with a table that might have a cartridge or two you could audition, should help you decide which way to go before spending more money.

I don't know of anybody who is into vinyl in my area. I am going to try the D1200 stylus and see how it sounds. I think my 681EEE is probably a good enough cartridge for me, but I wanted to know what might be a suitable sub in case this one ever craps out on me. It would be interesting to have someone who had some cartridges to try. Hearing is believing.