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Taylor Swift I just don't get it

I don't get her. I've often heard her sing out of tune in the TV performances I've seen and I'm not fond of the songs she's chosen to sing - just my opinion. I didn't see many good performances in the CMA's (what I watched anyway). Don't get the attraction for Tim McGraw or Darius (sp?) Rucker either.
Mike
 
d-ray657 said:
You have nailed my philosophy of music. Now as a suburban kid whose teenage years started at the end of the 60s, country was not my cup of tea. I was more interested in folks like CSN, Jethro Tull, Allman Brothers, Beatles, Jefferson Airplane, Hendrix, Zappa, Neil Young, BB King, Muddy Waters, Johnny Winter, Stones, Who, Van Morrison, Jeff Beck, Faces and early Elton John (and yeah, Steppenwolf, Deep Purple, Yes and Grand Funk too, which haven't stayed with me). I was becoming very interested in working-class issues in my late teens - college years, and I found the Bruce Springsteens music had a voice for that area, although his music became more watered down as he coasted on his success.
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This list is a good place to start I think. There's lots of variety here, with any one selection quite different from the other. The radio of those days was like a buffet of music, with choices for just about any palate. If you didn't like what was playing, wait a minute, or dial up or down the band a bit and you'd likely find something you did. It was a vibrant time for broadcast radio, and I miss it. Watching it die a slow death has been painful to me.

d-ray657 said:
There are a lot of commercial successes in my list, but it certainly did not appear to me at the time that commercial success was the point of the music. I will say that by the time I was 12, I couldn't stand to listen to top 40 radio any more, having discovered FM. Eventually, of course, AOR became more commercial as well.
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I realize that music was a business in those days too, but I honestly think there were more people on the money side of things who loved music as much as the money, and had pretty good taste in musicians and musical trends also. Probably the greatest attribute of the music business in those days, was its sense of adventure and a willingness to take chances on acts that didn't fit a certain mold.

d-ray657 said:
As I have grown older, my tastes have broadened quite a bit, but few of the areas into which I have ambled were big commercial successes.

Before rambling too long, I will ask you Fotno, and the others identifying "true country" where you place bands like Uncle Tupelo, and its offspring, Son Volt, Wilco, and the Bottle Rockets? It doesn't sound like any of them designed their sound to fit into any particular mold, although it is pretty clear that each of the last three derived from Uncle Tupelo (as they included personnel from UT). I've heard them called alt country, but to me, they're more true to country than most of what's out there.

Regards,

D-Ray
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I think that nowadays, they are "alt country" but only because the world of standard country radio has changed so much. As a musician, while these bands may bend the rules quite a bit, they are closer to the spirit of country than much of what is more commonly referred to AS country music. One of the things that country has lost (a most valuable thing in my opinion) is it's grit, its balls if you will. It's become entirely too slick and polished to keep what made country real feeling. These bands are ballsy, and they put the grit back where it belongs.
 
Axcel said:
for those posters here that refer to her as a song writer may I quote a lyric from one of her songs> " she wears short shorts I wear T shirts" song writer ya
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When I go into places that play the "At work station" I hear that song constantly. I didn't know that was Taylor Swift and never would have guessed it was country.

I don't think Dolly Parton has anything to worry about.

Chad
 
For a couple of years I listened to a KC area radio station that played a pretty good selection of alternative and indie rock. The DJs were just that - the people responsible for getting the music on the air. Their comments were pretty much limited to something about the music or the bands - like tours, personnel changes, etc. There was no "happy talk" or smut (showing my age, I guess). Their promos touted them as having been identified by Rolling Stone on a list of "radio stations that don't suck." Then one day, with no warning, I turned on the station to hear pop music and new announcers. I checked back periodically to make sure it wasn't a hoax or engineering problem, but still heard crap. It felt like losing a friend.

Regards,

D-Ray
 
Bigerik said:
Nothing at all manufactured about Taylor. Just a real nice 19 year old girl who happens to be a darn fine singer/songwriter. You old farts may not like her style of music, but that is where she is right now. Likely what Dylan would have been writing now too, were he of this generation. At least, if he wanted to make a living in music. With the talent she has, I look forward to seeing what kind of music she is writing in 10 years time.

Two observations:

1) I can't believe I am here defending Taylor Swift. I guess I am not as much of a crotchety old fart as I thought. :)

2) I would rather hear Taylor sing any day of the week then listen to Dylan moan and mumble his way through a song, great songwriter tho he may be.
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I agree ............ I just watched all the Taylor Swift / Def Leppard videos. She's a great talent ........ singer & songwriter & only 19 to boot.

Joe Elliot of Def Leppard sums it up here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdPnbvnvvrY&feature=related

Oh ........... and I'm 58.
 
One very wise member touched on this earlier in the thread. Country music has never carried much substance in general. There have been pop-country eras scattered all over the history of the music.

Whoever posted that George Jones quote:

It's a shame that George Jones considers George Strait and Alan Jackson the only remnants of "real" country music. I wouldn't really consider Jones an authority after that comment.

Both of those artists record songs off the shelf or "co-write". George Strait and his people used to have some taste in what songs to record but IMO that's all gone now. Since when have you heard anything as good as "The Chair".

Jackson, for the most part, records trite, completely mundane carp (again, IMO).

Songwriting is what I want out of country music.

Give me a new:

Kristofferson
Townes Van Zandt
Hag
Willy Nelson
Hank Williams (not his hillbilly HACK son)
Roger Miller
Keith Whitley
Lefty Frizzell
Don Williams
ect.

On topic...

Taylor Swift writes and records songs appropriate for her place in time country or not. She's good at it too. She's no vocal talent like Patsy Cline as someone mentioned, but vocal talent isn't what it's all about. Minus Hag and Keith Whitley, I don't find any of those people in my list to have particularly pleasing voices. I don't want to hear a beautiful voice singing lyrics that don't move me.
 
Ingo said:
On topic...

Taylor Swift writes and records songs appropriate for her place in time country or not. She's good at it too. She's no vocal talent like Patsy Cline as someone mentioned, but vocal talent isn't what it's all about. Minus Hag and Keith Whitley, I don't find any of those people in my list to have particularly pleasing voices. I don't want to hear a beautiful voice singing lyrics that don't move me.
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I have never been a big country music fan, but I have grown to appreciate a few, mostly order artists, like Hank Williams, Bob Wills, Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash. When I attended the '06 World Series, some tall skinny country singer that I had never heard of (which doesn't mean much) sang the national anthem. His voice blew me away, a huge baritone just doing a knockout on a song that has messed up many a performer. It was Trace Atkins. After that I looked for more of his music, thinking I could become a fan, but after sampling quite a bit never found anything that made me want to take another listen.

The point here, if there is one, is an echo of the above post;, even a tremendous voice is dependent on good material to deliver a good performance. If you are living the life of a teen or tweener, Taylor's music includes good material, but it doesn't do much for this old fart.

Regards,

D-Ray
 
d-ray657 said:
I have never been a big country music fan, but I have grown to appreciate a few, mostly order artists, like Hank Williams, Bob Wills, Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash. When I attended the '06 World Series, some tall skinny country singer that I had never heard of (which doesn't mean much) sang the national anthem. His voice blew me away, a huge baritone just doing a knockout on a song that has messed up many a performer. It was Trace Atkins. After that I looked for more of his music, thinking I could become a fan, but after sampling quite a bit never found anything that made me want to take another listen.

The point here, if there is one, is an echo of the above post;, even a tremendous voice is dependent on good material to deliver a good performance. If you are living the life of a teen or tweener, Taylor's music includes good material, but it doesn't do much for this old fart.

Regards,

D-Ray
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Very good example of a great voice in country music recording absolute BS.

Josh Turner has a voice along those lines and has cut some good songs.
 
Country music by its name implies "the music of people in a particular area". Do we expect the music of said people to be static?
 
jetblack said:
She's young, talented, energetic, popular, and innocent. What is there to not understand? :scratch2:
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I 'll give you young talented well is a term I would not use she's 19 so energetic is a given. Innocent don't be fooled thats the image her people have mustered up it sells records and of course makes her popular. Marketing?
 
There was plenty of crap pumped across the airwaves (or performed in concert, or put on stage and screen) at every point in history. No exceptions. There are artists every bit as talented performing today as back in the 60's, 70's etc. Who says? Me. Quite frankly, what we've been talking about for several pages is musical taste, which is completely subjective. It doesn't matter how many experts agree, or how popular an artist is, or even what history says: if you don't like it then, for you, it is crap. A big ol' bucket of crapola. Do I like Taylor Swift? No. I think she's drivel. But the Beatles also put out a lot of drivel. Cookie-cutter, candy-striped, pop drivel. (I don't mean to offend anyone, that is just my opinion. If you like the Beatles, I don't think any less of you, nor am I trying to invalidate your choices or denigrate your taste. I will even agree that they did have moments of genius, but not every turd they dropped on vinyl was made of gold, no matter how many teenyboppers bought the single). And the only thing you ever got to hear was what the radios decided you would (unless you lived in a large city and could actually go out and find the new bands at the small clubs).

Then: You don't like what's on? Spin the dial.
Now: You don't like what's on? Spin the dial. Or surf to a new internet stream. OR get an Ipod and load it with your favorite stuff. (personally, I'm lucky. We still have some really good radio here.)

We have access to more music today than at any point in history. People are showing up in HUGE numbers to see artists perform (during a free concert series this summer here in Austin, they were averaging about 5k folks per show. Each show had one performer, and people would wait all day to get into the park and get a good spot). I don't know, maybe it just seems different here because of where I live, but I am more excited about music RIGHT NOW than at any point before. I used to wish I had been alive and partying back in the early 70's.....and I still wish i had been able to see Floyd and the Doors and Zep play, but there is so much music being made right now that is just as good that I find myself increasingly glad to be a part of it here and now, today. I hope i didn't come across as TOO abrasive (though if you don't stir the pot a little, things just kinda get all stuck to the bottom and burnt on :D), it just really burns mean when folks talk about "today's music" when what they mean is "the crap on the top 40 station." I have plenty of friends how are working musicians who would find most of this thread incredibly insulting if that distinction isn't made.
Anyways, y'all have fun...I'm done with my rant. *hands soap box back*
 
TejasRichard said:
...I hope i didn't come across as TOO abrasive (though if you don't stir the pot a little, things just kinda get all stuck to the bottom and burnt on :D), it just really burns mean when folks talk about "today's music" when what they mean is "the crap on the top 40 station." I have plenty of friends how are working musicians who would find most of this thread incredibly insulting if that distinction isn't made.
Anyways, y'all have fun...I'm done with my rant. *hands soap box back*
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Not at all abrasive, least ways as far as I'm concerned. You're correct: There should be a distinction made between "music today" and "what's available on top 40 radio". I guess the reason that we haven't made such a distinction clearer already, is that the lack of alternatives to Top 40 radio stations in most markets makes finding anything different at the broadcast level difficult to impossible.

Around here, we have one radio station worth listening to (IMO as always) and that's WNCW. A public radio station located at a local junior college. I don't enjoy all the music they broadcast, but I love the variety of their programming, and I'm perfectly happy to suffer through the stuff I don't like, to get to the music I do. It's also a great resource for finding new music.

You're also right in saying that music is a completely subjective topic, and if a type of music has value to someone, their opinion is the only one that matters when they're the ones choosing what to listen to. However, if you couple the lack of choice in local radio stations, with the seeming unconcern on the part of record companies in promoting anything other than Top 40, then the radio in my truck is almost useless for anything other than a bit of news.

Personally, I don't like what Top 40 has to offer (in any genre) and really resent that my radio choices have become limited to Top 40 and little else.
 
fotno said:
Not at all abrasive, least ways as far as I'm concerned. You're correct: There should be a distinction made between "music today" and "what's available on top 40 radio". I guess the reason that we haven't made such a distinction clearer already, is that the lack of alternatives to Top 40 radio stations in most markets makes finding anything different at the broadcast level difficult to impossible.

Around here, we have one radio station worth listening to (IMO as always) and that's WNCW. A public radio station located at a local junior college. I don't enjoy all the music they broadcast, but I love the variety of their programming, and I'm perfectly happy to suffer through the stuff I don't like, to get to the music I do. It's also a great resource for finding new music.

You're also right in saying that music is a completely subjective topic, and if a type of music has value to someone, their opinion is the only one that matters when they're the ones choosing what to listen to. However, if you couple the lack of choice in local radio stations, with the seeming unconcern on the part of record companies in promoting anything other than Top 40, then the radio in my truck is almost useless for anything other than a bit of news.

Personally, I don't like what Top 40 has to offer (in any genre) and really resent that my radio choices have become limited to Top 40 and little else.
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Right on man, I hear you. And it is a bit hard to remember sometimes that not everyone has (or rather, it's hard to remember what it's like to NOT have) access to good quality fm radio. I work outta my truck, and I would undoubtably be a less pleasant person to be around if I had nothing to listen to but clearchannel crap all day. :yes:
 
I still dig old Country and Western. I grew up on Skynyrd, the Allman Bros, ZZ Top, Credence...

I dig the new scene too! SRV, The Black Crowes, AND Gov't Mule!

:music:
 
WhiteSE said:
C'mmon Ken, Just because Jon Anderson's pitch is a bit higher than most doesnt bring him down to the lower level's of voice quality...

:scratch2:
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:scratch2: ..seriously...Jon Anderson has been a remarkable talent in his field, and has a massive and enduring body of work
 
WhiteSE said:
C'mmon Ken, Just because Jon Anderson's pitch is a bit higher than most doesnt bring him down to the lower level's of voice quality...
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Guys, guys, guys.

I dig "Yes." Big time. I used Mr. Anderson. Mr. Zimmerman, and Mr. Reed as examples of artists that folks dismiss simply because they don't like the "voice."

They are all better singers than Ms. Swift, IMO.

Defending Ms. Swift is tough work.

Ken
 
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