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Technics SL-1200 series as an audiophile turntable?

targeteye said:
As for upgrades I really can not buy into the power supply thing. It cleans up the power supply ripple. So? I hear absolutely no hint of a 120 or 60hz hum or buzz coming from this TT so this ripple is not making its way into the audio path and the platter is rock solid on. IMHO i'm thinking this may be money wasted for this TT but i'll be open minded about it if someone can explain why it would make a difference.

The damper would be interesting to try but I think at $150 it may be an overpriced mod. Between rewiring the arm, the damper etc I would rather put that money towards an SME arm if I were to think about upgrading. Not that I think there is any major flaw in the existing arm.
Steve
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I'd give Kevin a call @ KAB. He's very friendly and can explain the power supply/damper mods without playing the salesperson game.

IME, I didn't try mods all at once. I ran the table stock for a few months. Then added the fluid damper. Hands down more extended bass, seemed to take out some liveliness from the tonearm, and all around sounded better. Won't take it off.

After 6 or 8 months, I did the external power supply. Since I run 12" for bass speakers, I immediately heard even more lower bass coming thru, and to me, the background was noticeably quieter. Hard to explain, sort of like noise reduction but without stripping sound/life away. Also seems to have more torque, which may also affect. The other thing is, don't most TOTL components use external power supplies?

There is some forums out there that compared the stock arm, rega arms, etc., I think someone even fit an Origin Live Silver arm on a 1200. That's tempting.

http://www.tonearm.co.uk/dj_technics_armboard.htm
http://www.needledoctor.com/Origin-Live-Silver-Tonearm

I dunno, maybe the integral headshell would make the most difference, but a rewired stock with cardas wiring for comparison? Seems like a close race, and I like the stock VTA adjustment.

Course all depends on the rest of your system, and your ability to hear the difference. I think.

$.02
 
I'm not so quick to write off the external power supply. If expensive pre-amps and other electronics can benefit from it, why not a $329 turntable?

But would I expect a life changing, or even dramatic change?

Not really. Perhaps mild. But for some, a mild improvement may be worth the $250 cost.


As for the fluid damper, the used dampers for SME arms sell around $150 to as much as $300, and I've just seen an incomplete one sell for $79.

While I'd say the fluid damper would be better priced at $79, as it's pretty simple a design, good for KAB to have even offered one and glad to see he is making money.

A fluid damper improves the SME arms so I see no reason it wouldn't benefit a technics arm.

Am M5G arm runs $100 with excellent internal wiring. Or go for the $55 arm and $12 in Cardas wire and do it yourself. Add the $150 fluid damper and you're at $220 to $250 for a nice arm.

Yes you could buy a used Jelco or perhaps another nice arm (Grace perhaps?) for that- so take that into consideration.

You'd need to fork over more however for a Rega, the armboard and the VTA mod.

And a used SME 3009 sells for $300-$375- so consider that too.
 
...and if your table already has a tone arm in good shape, the $150 fluid damper and $12 Cardas only sets you back a few sheckles over $160.

Much cheaper than adding a new arm, armboard and VTA mods.

Probably for a similar amount of performance increase!
 
thedelihaus said:
...and if your table already has a tone arm in good shape, the $150 fluid damper and $12 Cardas only sets you back a few sheckles over $160.

Much cheaper than adding a new arm, armboard and VTA mods.

Probably for a similar amount of performance increase!
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The fluid damper has made an audible improvement in my setup. However, I do wonder if simply using heat shrink on the arm would suffice. I tried heat shrink on my original arm before getting the damper/cardas rewire, and it seemed to have an equivalent effect.

Also I agree about the rewire possibly being the answer to the 'dark' sounding issue. The last thing I would call the 1200 w/ Cardas rewire is 'dark'.
 
My experience with 1200s has been limited to radio station use. The only tougher environment for a turntable is on the road with a live DJ. I've seen them totally beat to crap & still with perfect speed stability & no rumble. Even SP-10s don't measure up to a 1200 in a tough environment. The 1200 is the Timex of turntables..."they take a licking & keep on ticking!" That being said...I'm more than happy with my $10 SL3200/M91ED combo....but, if I chance on a 1200 for $20 at a garage sale into the trunk it goes!!
 
Tweaks

From My personal experience I can say without reservation that each one I did made a subtle improvement and in combination of all a big over all improvement.
I did one at a time so I could experience each one as it developed plus it was the only way I could afford to. lol

I too am happy that we have KAB, kudos to Kevin and his brave venture to help us keep the 1200 well into the audiophile realm, if it were not for KAB we would be with out any upgrade options. :tresbon:

My SL-1210 M5G Tweaks so far...
1st the TD1200 fluid damper :thmbsp:
2nd the Technics Super 1/4" mat :thmbsp:
3rd the Isonoe footers and boots :thmbsp: :thmbsp:
4th RC1200 threaded record clamp :thmbsp:
though KAB does not sell the Zupreme headshell that too made a big improvement.
I am curious about the outboard power supply and will likely get one in the very near future.
But each of those have made my M5G one great sounding table and well its fun too.
 
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and if you get the 78RPM mod like I did, your 78s will sound much better! :lmao::lmao::lmao:
 
IMG_3371.jpg


This headshell is from one of my SL-1500MK2's. It's definitely weightier than the stock 1200MK2 headshell. Without the aux. weight the counter balance is quite further back on the end of the tonearm for correct VTF when compared to the stock headshell. This headshell would probably be a plus if at some point I switched to an MC. (Like mentioned, I might go for the Zupreme if more mass was needed.) Not sure if I like it better with this setup yet: 1200MK2 stock arm / Audio Technica AT331 w/Shibata (from TurntableNeedles)

Just today, I ordered a KAB Damper. I must really feel guilty that I got this TT on the cheap...
 
I agree the fluid damper makes a difference, worth the money IMHO.It seems everything Kevin at KAB sells helps to some extent,not audio voodoo, and all reasonble in price.
 
Would the fluid damper work on a stock SL1300 TT (1975) original Tonearm (not Mk.II)

my mods so far on this TT:
Vibrapod cones and Isolators with 3/8" acrylic base
¼" Super Mat
Modeling clay deadened plinth
M5G Interconnects
 
LPMike said:
Would the fluid damper work on a stock SL1300 TT (1975) original Tonearm (not Mk.II)

my mods so far on this TT:
Vibrapod cones and Isolators with 3/8" acrylic base
¼" Super Mat
Modeling clay deadened plinth
M5G Interconnects
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I've been told "no" but I imagine you could retrofit it if you are a bit creative.
 
So here is one bad thing i've noticed. I cant rely blame the Arm for being sensitive but here is what happens.

On an LP I know if played few a few times i'll encounter a skip. hmmmm me thinks. I just happend to have the dual setup in the other room on my sons system so over there I head. Play the record thru at that point and i'll here a pop but the are doesn't jump like the sl1200 arm.

I'm thinking that the low friction bearings on the sl1200 will actually let the arm jump upwards a bit where the 1229 arm just plow thru the pop with out really responding to it.

Not sure if I can really put blame on the 1200 arm... its a bad spot on the record. Is the fluid damper supposed to help with this sort of thing?

Steve
 
well I have a the fluid damper mod on my 1200 and I have a record with a slight warp that jumped once per rotation on my Dual 1229Q. On my 1200 this same song tracks without skipping, although you can hear the warp. I have two 78rpm records that have really quick warps that drove the 1229Q crazy, they track fine now on the 1200. I have a conical styli for less than perfect condition records, and so far not a single scratch or surface imperfection can make it skip. It seems to go through everything I throw at it so far. A RCM is also a good idea, somtimes dirt and other contaminants can make records skip. I have a friend with an unmodded 1200 and it tracks very well too, you should check the tracking force and anti skating on the dual, then the technics. there could be many reasons that is happening. Different cartridges track differently as well. Hope this was Helpfull.
 
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targeteye said:
I'm thinking that the low friction bearings on the sl1200 will actually let the arm jump upwards a bit where the 1229 arm just plow thru the pop with out really responding to it.
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Could very well be true. The arm is definitely low friction, which is a good thing for sure. The damper will slow the arms response to quick movements (like warps). I think Kevin goes into this on his website. However, there's more that may be coming into play such as tracking force, stylus suspension stiffness, stylus shape, tracking angle, anti-skate setting... so on and so on... between the two TTs.
 
SLM3Tech said:
Could very well be true. The arm is definitely low friction, which is a good thing for sure. The damper will slow the arms response to quick movements (like warps). I think Kevin goes into this on his website. However, there's more that may be coming into play such as tracking force, stylus suspension stiffness, stylus shape, tracking angle, anti-skate setting... so on and so on... between the two TTs.
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I think that is the point. Compliance of the cart combined with it's own mass and the effective mass of the tonearm define how well the system behaves in "external" vibrations be it loudspeaker feedback, footsteps or warps on the LP. Even scratched grooves.

A perfect match between the cart and the tonearm will be much more insensitive to such stimuli.

I will give a similar example. For years, I've considered the Stanton 681EEE to be a dud. Dull sound and fuzzy. I've only used that on TTs that were a bad match for the cart. But mounting that cart on the SL-1200 makes the cart give out a totaly different character - and a much better one.
 
I agree, I thought the 681EEE was overrrated as well until I put it on my PLL1000a Pioneer and it sounded pretty good, but better on the Technics 1200mkII. Even so, not good enough to put up with the stupid brush/damper thing on the stylus- what a piece of junk that is. Try and cue precisely with that rat's tail hitting the record first. The Shure V15III (MR) is a nice combo.
The 'origin live' rega mod however I regard as a waste of money. For compulsive tweakers only. Origin live have a number of different 'websites' all peddling their 'tweaks', no real substance and I don't think I have ever seen ANY actual testing of anything they sell. I think they specialise in the 'subjective' review with a pricetag to suit. Give me KAB mods anyday- that guy has total cred.
 
restorer-john,

The brush is removable. It clips on behind the stylus. Pull out rearward. After brush is removed, rebalance tonearm, track at 1.2 grams vertical tracking force, and put tonearm height on 2. Lock down VTA and enjoy beautiful music with lively tone.
 
Quick question, I know this has probably been discussed a million times, but what are the main differences between the SL-1200MK2 and the SL-1210M5G? I know there have been some upgrades, though they seem like they were mostly aimed at DJ's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!
 
mcnail said:
Quick question, I know this has probably been discussed a million times, but what are the main differences between the SL-1200MK2 and the SL-1210M5G? I know there have been some upgrades, though they seem like they were mostly aimed at DJ's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!
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The answers to that question are in this thread already...:yes:
 
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