Technics SL-1200 series as an audiophile turntable?

[thedelihaus]

I have been using a Technics SL110 with a SME 3009 tonearm and a TOTL Audio Technica cartridge for the last 5yrs. In that time I have also had an Oracle Delphi, a Systemdek and a Rega 2 . Faced with the need to sell a few I carefully evaluated and decided to keep the Technics/SME combo as frankly it was the best sounding of them all. My question is - why do I not find any other posts relating to this TT? Are they that rare? I would love to hear from some other owners of this TT. I have the original manuals for the table and the tonearm plus the mounting template. Gladly provide scans if anyone is interested.

Pretty rare ducks.

I too, own the SL-110 and also the SL-120 with factory-equipped option of the SME tone arm.

Not often do you run across them- I only know of three (including you) AKers who have them.

Does yours have the wood arm base or aluminum arm base?

 

[fftulip]

1200 replacement arm usable in other TT?

Am M5G arm runs $100 with excellent internal wiring. Or go for the $55 arm and $12 in Cardas wire and do it yourself. Add the $150 fluid damper and you're at $220 to $250 for a nice arm.

I've see KAB and other places selling the various 1200 arms, but are they usable on other turntables without much work? It looks like they come without the base, does this mean no antiskating, no VTA? Are any bearings or other parts missing from the replacement arm (I already know about the counterweight and headshell). Thanks!

 

[thedelihaus]

I've see KAB and other places selling the various 1200 arms, but are they usable on other turntables without much work? It looks like they come without the base, does this mean no antiskating, no VTA? Are any bearings or other parts missing from the replacement arm (I already know about the counterweight and headshell). Thanks!

This arm should mount into your existing base plate.

The base plate is what holds the VTA and anti-skate- if you need that, I'm sure you can order from KAB too.

As for specifics to your table, I dunno what it is so cannot further expound.

 

[xmas111]

The only issue I'm having so far, not the fault of the TT or cart, is LF feedback when playing at loud volumes. I included a few pics of my setup and you can see the table with the TT is relativity close to the speakers. The speakers are AR9's and they can really pump some bass! Until I can find a better way to isolate the TT I'll just have to keep the volume down.

Just a quick update for everyone about the LF feedback I was getting with the SL-1210M5K.

I made a wooden board to place the TT on and place the 16" inner tube under the board. Had just enough air in the tube to hold the board off the table......no luck! still got the LF feedback!:thumbsdn:

I decided to try the furniture cups with the 1" steel balls. I couldn't find the cups that were shown earlier in this thread but I did find some very similar on amazon. here I was able to get some 1" stainless steel balls from work.

Set everything up, (three sets of cups with the steel balls under the board) put on a piece of vinyl and cranked it up:guitar:.........all I can say is I'm very happy camper now!.... no more LF feedback! This set up works.

So if anyone might be having the same problem I had with LF feedback give this set up a shot.:thmbsp:

Included a couple of pics so you can see the set up.

 

[fftulip]

This arm should mount into your existing base plate.

The base plate is what holds the VTA and anti-skate- if you need that, I'm sure you can order from KAB too.

As for specifics to your table, I dunno what it is so cannot further expound.

That's what I figured, you need the arm base too. I see that an arm base costs about another $60 (partstore.com) so total cost for a basic arm assembly is about $150, not quite the bargain I was hoping for, but fairly reasonable. I have half a dozen old school turntables (Fairchild, Rek-O-Kut, HH Scott) awaiting restoration and arms and thought that a Technics might fit the bill for a medium mass arm with replaceable headshell at a reasonable cost. I already have several low mass arms but they are not of the easily replaceable headshell variety. On some of the tables I plan to mount both types of arms for the most flexibility. Thanks for your help.

 

[molecules01]

Mk5

Sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't understand fully the difference between the MKII and MK5.

1) I saw a post implying that it has RCA jacks instead of hardwired cables. Is this true, the one picture I could find on the web of the back did not show jacks.

2) I see the dustcover is not mounted with hinges. A poster said he bought hinges at KAB. Are there holes for hinges or do they have to be drilled on the table or the dustcover ?

3) The same poster had feedback problems that he addressed, could this be partly from un-optimal dust cover mounting ?

4) Has anyone heard any sonic differences ? You would think Panasonic replaced the wire with oxygen free copper for a reason, but I missed any post of a mention a sonic differences among the MKII and MK5 and MG5.

Thanks a bunch, again.

Dave

 

[jdwk]

This arm should mount into your existing base plate.

The base plate is what holds the VTA and anti-skate- if you need that, I'm sure you can order from KAB too.

As for specifics to your table, I dunno what it is so cannot further expound.

a complete 1200 arm has to be bought and built, if you want it on another table KAB can do that for you, he has done it for others.

 

[rexrider]

Sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't understand fully the difference between the MKII and MK5.

1) I saw a post implying that it has RCA jacks instead of hardwired cables. Is this true, the one picture I could find on the web of the back did not show jacks.

2) I see the dustcover is not mounted with hinges. A poster said he bought hinges at KAB. Are there holes for hinges or do they have to be drilled on the table or the dustcover ?

3) The same poster had feedback problems that he addressed, could this be partly from un-optimal dust cover mounting ?

4) Has anyone heard any sonic differences ? You would think Panasonic replaced the wire with oxygen free copper for a reason, but I missed any post of a mention a sonic differences among the MKII and MK5 and MG5.

Thanks a bunch, again.

Dave

I will try to answer some of your questions as best I can.

1. All the 1200 series have direct wired cables. They are not removable. There may be a way to mod the table and install RCA jacks into the plinth but they do not come from the factory that way.

2. The 1200mk2 (the original) comes with hinges out of the box. The later variants (MK3, MK5, and M5G) do not come with hinges. KAB sells the kit with all the parts needed. There are pre-drilled holes on the plates in the back and can be used to mount the hinges. KAB also includes the replacement plate the MK2 uses but that requires disassembling the TT.

3. I can't speak for the person who got feedback, but I highly doubt it was an issue with dust cover. His setup had a lot of speaker nearby with nothing to isolate the TT. The 1200MK2 series is very good at isolating vibrations but it can only do so much. He posted he was able to resolve the feed back issue by using an additional platform to isolate the LF vibrations.

Personally, I have not had any feedback issues with my M5G yet. At least not at any volume level I can take. Of course the system it is currently hooked to is not exactly a power house.

4. The MK2, MK3, Mk5, and M5G are all based on the same design. They are for all intents and purposes, the same TT. However each later model had some minor revision that enhanced the TT for DJs. Such as dropping he hinges, LED used for the cue light, slip mat included, pitch control made digital, etc.

The M5G has all those revisions in addition to an improved arm and wiring. This is the latest variant of the 1200MK2 series.

How much better does the M5G sound over the previous models? No way to be sure unless you do an A/B comparison using the same cart, record, and equipment. When I bought my M5G, I had to take it on faith the extra money was worth it. It was not that big of a jump in price and so it was not the big of a jump in faith.

The plain old 1200 MK2 is still a fine TT. If there are budget concerns and a M5G is just out of reach, I say buy the 1200MK2 without remorse and enjoy.

Note: 1200 = silver plinth. 1210 = black plinth

(If anyone sees any inaccuracy with my post, please feel free to correct me)

 

[xmas111]

Sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't understand fully the difference between the MKII and MK5.

1) I saw a post implying that it has RCA jacks instead of hardwired cables. Is this true, the one picture I could find on the web of the back did not show jacks.

2) I see the dustcover is not mounted with hinges. A poster said he bought hinges at KAB. Are there holes for hinges or do they have to be drilled on the table or the dustcover ?

3) The same poster had feedback problems that he addressed, could this be partly from un-optimal dust cover mounting ?

4) Has anyone heard any sonic differences ? You would think Panasonic replaced the wire with oxygen free copper for a reason, but I missed any post of a mention a sonic differences among the MKII and MK5 and MG5.

Thanks a bunch, again.

Dave

I can't answer all your question....but I can answer a couple.

The TT has RCA cables. There are no output RCA jacks.

The hinges I bought for the dust cover fit right in place. The only thing you have to do is remove the rubber bumpers from the dust cover and screw the base of the hinges into the base of the TT. There are pre-drilled holes for the hinge.

As for the LF feedback I was getting, it wasn't due to a improperly installed dust cover. I was getting the LF feedback without the dust cover even installed.

Hope this info helps.


oops: sorry, rexrider beat me to the punch.

 

[jdwk]

I will try to answer some of your questions as best I can.

1. All the 1200 series have direct wired cables. They are not removable. There may be a way to mod the table and install RCA jacks into the plinth but they do not come from the factory that way.

2. The 1200mk2 (the original) comes with hinges out of the box. The later variants (MK3, MK5, and M5G) do not come with hinges. KAB sells the kit with all the parts needed. There are pre-drilled holes on the plates in the back and can be used to mount the hinges. KAB also includes the replacement plate the MK2 uses but that requires disassembling the TT.

3. I can't speak for the person who got feedback, but I highly doubt it was an issue with dust cover. His setup had a lot of speaker nearby with nothing to isolate the TT. The 1200MK2 series is very good at isolating vibrations but it can only do so much. He posted he was able to resolve the feed back issue by using an additional platform to isolate the LF vibrations.

Personally, I have not had any feedback issues with my M5G yet. At least not at any volume level I can take. Of course the system it is currently hooked to is not exactly a power house.

4. The MK2, MK3, Mk5, and M5G are all based on the same design. They are for all intents and purposes, the same TT. However each later model had some minor revision that enhanced the TT for DJs. Such as dropping he hinges, LED used for the cue light, slip mat included, pitch control made digital, etc.

The M5G has all those revisions in addition to an improved arm and wiring. This is the latest variant of the 1200MK2 series.

How much better does the M5G sound over the previous models? No way to be sure unless you do an A/B comparison using the same cart, record, and equipment. When I bought my M5G, I had to take it on faith the extra money was worth it. It was not that big of a jump in price and so it was not the big of a jump in faith.

The plain old 1200 MK2 is still a fine TT. If there are budget concerns and a M5G is just out of reach, I say buy the 1200MK2 without remorse and enjoy.

Note: 1200 = silver plinth. 1210 = black plinth

(If anyone sees any inaccuracy with my post, please feel free to correct me)

the rarest of the series, the 1200MK4 has Gold plated RCA jacks on the back of the turntable the improved arm wiring, no digital pitch, and a third 78rmp spped switch. why they never bothered to sell it outside japan, is a mystery to me. I really think it would have sold well.

 

[molecules01]

Thanks so much for making this stuff clear. Would be a nice thing to have the jacks, you never know where in your room you need to put it , sometimes far away to keep it isolated (ha ha usually WAF issues !). And they are more convenient when you need to move. Turntables are the only components that are like this.

I did take the plunge and ordered the MK5 (from PCNation), because it was only backordered 2-5 days vs 2+ weeks for every other black 1200. At $364 delivered, the cost difference would be $364 + $23+ for hinges - $345 listed price for MK II = about $45 (ouch) , but I am also concerned that 2+ weeks could mean never (or a new price) and these guys are so much cheaper than anywhere else !

 

[Sharpstik]

My hand is up for a question. I am thinking about buying one (sl 1200). Can the pitch control be further adjusted under the unit? My Pioneer has 2 screws down there. Just asking. I assume not.

 

[SLM3Tech]

the rarest of the series, the 1200MK4 has Gold plated RCA jacks on the back of the turntable the improved arm wiring, no digital pitch, and a third 78rmp spped switch. why they never bothered to sell it outside japan, is a mystery to me. I really think it would have sold well.

Essentially, KAB mods make all of this possible in slightly different form with other models.

 

[Old_Tech]

Just ordered my 1210M5G

I went with PC Nation and will wait until they are in stock again. The order acknowledgemnt came with no info on any delays so I am just going to let it play out.

I was going to use Wal-Mart with one year no financing but it came to 611 with tax and shipping. No Way.

Made my mind up fast they did. Now I have a little time to find the perfect cartridge for her.
This is great. I wish you guys would post more pics! I am excited! :thmbsp:

 

[targeteye]

Ok so an update to the below issue. I managed to dig another headshell out of a junkbox (I used to have a lot of these things!) and mounted up a Shure RXP3. The issue with jumping on scratches where other TT's would not is now gone. It would appear that the SAS equiped V15 is sensitive to scratches and the Arm on this deck alows the SAS stylus to do what it wants to do.

One mystery solved... I consider this a testimate to the precision of this arm and one more notch against what I'm starting to consider a very finicky SAS stylus on this V15.

Steve

So here is one bad thing i've noticed. I cant rely blame the Arm for being sensitive but here is what happens.

On an LP I know if played few a few times i'll encounter a skip. hmmmm me thinks. I just happend to have the dual setup in the other room on my sons system so over there I head. Play the record thru at that point and i'll here a pop but the are doesn't jump like the sl1200 arm.

I'm thinking that the low friction bearings on the sl1200 will actually let the arm jump upwards a bit where the 1229 arm just plow thru the pop with out really responding to it.

Not sure if I can really put blame on the 1200 arm... its a bad spot on the record. Is the fluid damper supposed to help with this sort of thing?

Steve

 

[SLM3Tech]

Got the new tonearm, turret bottom plate and fluid damper from Kevin/KAB. In a word, "WOW". It's one thing to understand the theory and say "SME did it so it must be good". It's a whole other thing to hear it in action. I will be getting a fluid damper for my other 1200. This is not an appearance upgrade. This, in my not so humble opinion, is a functional "ear-opener". I join others in a high recommendation.

 

[thedelihaus]

what was your cost for the bottom plate?

 

[SLM3Tech]

I got everything from KAB. I believe his price was $40.

A new tonearm doesn't come with the 2 screws needed to attach it to the arm base; so, I recycled.

It took (a lot of) patience and creativity for feeding the wires through without separating the fixing plate and arm base. Have thread and wire ties, will travel.

I did things a little differently, bypassing the little pcb and/or turret tag board. Instead I extended the tonearm wire leads by tacking on short pieces of tinned strand 600V wire that I use for building amps. The ends of these go right up the turrets of the KAB turret board bottom plate.

This is the bottom plate. I need to get the other screw. Finished up with upgraded interconnects.

 

[molecules01]

Mk5

Just got my MK5 1210. ($364 delivered from PC Nation) All set up with my M97xe. I am stunned by the way this sounds, ( and have yet to set the overhang). I have a Marantz 6100, Kenwood KD-3055. I kind of got this because I couldn't get my Thorens TD-145 to sound good, and finally broke the arm connection to the headshell fussing with it so much to get it set up correctly. I can't believe this TT !

 

[billr814]

1 thing is for sure..a technics direct drive will run another 30 yrs