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Technics SL-1200 series as an audiophile turntable?

jdwk said:
see lots of people on a routine basis, "score" and post about equipment I do not like, or wouldnt care to own. I just dont go into a thread filled with people who own said equipment and mock them, the 'no attitude" part keeps me posting on AK just as much as the "all audio" part does, maybe the 'no attitude" part might be more of the reason I like it here. I just didnt like the tone of dolphs post. if you like what you have, thats the point isnt it? If someone scores something they love that I dont like, I just dont post any comment at all and just think "good for them" I have had great scores I love, that others would care less for. and thats just fine.
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Well said.
 
targeteye said:
niklasthedol,
The fact that you lump "any technics table" into the same category shows your lack of knowledge of the line.

I paid $330 for my 1200 brand new. Can you please inform me as to which new Belt/rim drive table that I could have bought that would best it for an equiviletnt price? It is the end all be all of tables? No. Is it an oustanding value? I think so.

I got sick and tired of the rim/belt drive tables I could afford drifting around on speed. It drives me nuts. I have not had that issue at all since opting for the Technics.

Steve
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Did you buy it new yesterday or many years ago?
If not yesterday you should not compare with prices of new Belt driven TT's from today.
Compare with used TT's, as you're TT is, and it would be a piece of cake to find cheaper and better.

Frankly, TT engineering design has not really developed the last 20-25 years.
Engineering design of Cartridges and TT arms has developed, though.

"dolph"
 
niklasthedol said:
Any Technics TT's in any modification is a great entry-level low-end TT suitable for DJ'ing and Radio Broadcasting due to it's sturdyness.
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An Audio Technica AT-PL120 is an "entry-level low-end TT." A Technics SL-1200 is an entry-level audiophile turntable.

An SL-1200MK2 was my main table until I recently acquired a Linn Axis, which is indisputably audiophile-quality. Frankly the Linn blows away the Technics in terms of soundstage depth, detail, and sonic punch. But the 1200 is no sonic slouch, and has its place in my system. I'm currently using it with a Stanton 500 for spinning my vintage mono 45s and LPs, and plan on having KAB upgrade it for 78 playback as well. The SL-1200MK2 is the ultimate Swiss Army Knife of turntables.

I'm saving up to buy an upgrade cart for the Linn, and plan to move my AT440Mla from the Linn back to the 1200. The Linn reveals so much detail that some records frankly sound bad on it. The 1200, with its 'round sound,' will be a better match for those records, while the Linn will be reserved for my best records.

I agree that for under $400 you won't find a better new turntable than a
Technics SL-1200.
 
The SL-1200 is an entry level audiophile turntable. Not an entry level DJ turntable. In the DJ world, the SL-1200 is still very highly regarded. With a few upgrades can compete with most any sanely priced audiophile turntable. By the time you upgrade a basic entry level audiophile turntable you are in 1200 territory price wise or even worse. And that's just to get the speed stability decent alone. An entry level DJ turntable is a piece of rubbish like an Ion. In today's world, you are looking at Music Hall MMF-5 series or the equivalent in Pro-Ject or Rega to get decent speed constancy and the beginning of good stock. Is a 1200 the be all-end all of turntables and tonearms? No, but it is better than most give it credit for. It's the best under $2000 fuss free turntable money can buy. Yes, a Linn is better but they also usually cost much more money. I love Linns (Ingjerd and I own LP-12s).
 
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KentTeffeteller said:
The SL-1200 is an entry level audiophile turntable. Not an entry level DJ turntable. In the DJ world, the SL-1200 is still very highly regarded. With a few upgrades can compete with most any sanely priced audiophile turntable. By the time you upgrade a basic entry level audiophile turntable you are in 1200 territory price wise or even worse. And that's just to get the speed stability decent alone. An entry level DJ turntable is a piece of rubbish like an Ion. In today's world, you are looking at Music Hall MMF-5 series or the equivalent in Pro-Ject or Rega to get decent speed constancy and the beginning of good stock. Is a 1200 the be all-end all of turntables and tonearms? No, but it is better than most give it credit for. It's the best under $2000 fuss free turntable money can buy. Yes, a Linn is better but they also usually cost much more money. I love Linns (Ingjerd and I own LP-12s).
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Best under two grand? Ok, now I have heard everything. It's a DJ table and audiophile is starting to sound pretty cheap to me! Direct drive no less. The high end shops here won't even carry direct drive anymore. WalMart does...
 
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Ron/old tech, no need to piss on the Technics owners.

You tried hard to aquire an SL-1200 yourself for quite a while, and some of your Japanese turntables you own are, in my opinion, not the same caliber of the 1200. They were belt drive models priced lower, and model designation and pecking order under the direct drive options offered by the same company.

Explain that to me.

Let's keep this thread polite, if it can't remain positive.

There's a lot of folk who show you much respect and offer you much help and don't pooh-pooh your tables or purchases.
 
The Technics SL-1200 was designed as an audiophile caliber table when it came out. The fact it was adopted by DJs due to both it's sound quality and durability and build quality only bolsters it's value and reinforces it's superhero reliability.

Is it perfect? No. Can it be improved? Of course.

Now, the Rega tables are excellent in their own right.

Yet, they too, have issues. They too, can be improved on.


What's my point?

We're dealing with tables that are around or under $1000. Compromises will be made to meet this pricepoint.

With that understanding, the 1200, while not the perfect table or the cure-all for all your vinyl woes, is-

1) an outstanding table

2) capable of at least budget/entry level audiophilia levels

3) modifiable to reach much, much loftier goals

4) easy to repair

5) a smart choice, with parts sources easily obtained

6) will never be a $40,000 turntable, and perhaps not even a $2,500 boutique table.


It's simple and elementary.

If you want entry level audiopile quality, durability, reliability, value, confidence to be able to keep it up and running due to simplicity and parts availability, and may want to tweak it down the road, the 1200 has proven itself a smart choice.
 
Ps-

I have no desire to badmouth Thorens, Regas, Linns and many other tables.

But I'm not ignorant to the fact they all have their quirks and issues too.

They are all great tables in their own right, and offer plenty good to be thee choice for many people.

For me, the choice has been Japanese Direct Drives, like the JVC QL series, the Sony PS-X series, and the Technics SL series.

I like these tables, over what lots of new and vintage tables like Phillips and Thorens and B&O and others have offered.

It's my personal preference, and I am aware of where I have gains and where I have shortcomings in my choices.


And I'm always thrilled to listen to my friends Thorens and Regas.

Just like the Japanese DDs for my castle.
 
oldskl said:
Does this mean that my newly acquired SL 1300 is a great turntable. From what I understand the only difference between it and the 1200 besides looks is the 1300 is fully automatic.
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No the main difference is the arm. And I'd say yours is an older design that wasn't meant to be used for anything other than home use. Now i know someone will state they knew so and so used one to DJ but that's not what yours was made for. it's a good solid table.
That from what I understand is bullet proof as long as you do the maintanance when needed.
Enjoy
 
Well I for one will not part with any of the 3 modded Technics I have
Two SL1800MKII's and a SL1700MKII I realize that other than the arm and the motor mine are a very different design and to my ears because of the suspended sub chassis do sound different and in a word livelier. I've heard or should say heard a very nice Sota with a Rega upgraded arm and it did sound good but I didn't hear that bass growl I hear on mine.
 
Old_Tech said:
Best under two grand? Ok, now I have heard everything.
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Let's not confuse this type of comment with "having attitude" or being impolite to the Technics owners. To call the SL1200 a "audiophile" turntable is a HUGE stretch (regardless of upgrades), and to say it's the biggest bargain in turntables under $2000 is flat out wrong. Anyone recall Hypnotoad's recent thread? :scratch2:

It's not that I'm trying to put down the Technics owners, I know they're nice turntables, but people get carried away about them here.
 
Mr. Lin said:
Let's not confuse this type of comment with "having attitude" or being impolite to the Technics owners. To call the SL1200 a "audiophile" turntable is a HUGE stretch (regardless of upgrades), and to say it's the biggest bargain in turntables under $2000 is flat out wrong. Anyone recall Hypnotoad's recent thread? :scratch2:

It's not that I'm trying to put down the Technics owners, I know they're nice turntables, but people get carried away about them here.
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As someone who currently owns a Thorens TD-145, a Pioneer PL-600, a Pioneer PL-115D, and a Technics 1210 M5G, I'd say its not a stretch at all. I don't get carried away when I listen to my gear. Most of the time I just enjoy the music. But if I had to be critical, I'd say a tweaked 1210 M5G competes favorably the the tweaked TD-145 in many, many ways, and in a number of ways bests it. Its beyond the scope of this thread to get into specifics, but suffice it to say that I don't think I've gotten everything I can out of the Technics, but probably have pushed the 145 to its limits without changing the tonearm and putting the whole shebang into a 100 lb granite plinth.

Now, this is just a hobby, not a pi$$ing contest. These are just turntables, and we're all just having fun. Let's get back to enjoying the music.
 
Mr. Lin said:
Let's not confuse this type of comment with "having attitude" or being impolite to the Technics owners. To call the SL1200 a "audiophile" turntable is a HUGE stretch (regardless of upgrades), and to say it's the biggest bargain in turntables under $2000 is flat out wrong. Anyone recall Hypnotoad's recent thread? :scratch2:

It's not that I'm trying to put down the Technics owners, I know they're nice turntables, but people get carried away about them here.
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I will say this though Dave (not to start any further arguments of course :D).

As for what's out there for $2K today, I haven't really been all that impressed. I always do get a tremendous sticker shock, when looking in the audio dream catalogs.

Even in the above $2K catagory, I'm always still leery-apprehensive about what one really gets for thier money? Seems everything in my eyes, actually has a 100%, or better mark-up.

I seen a pretty nice looking technics table on the Gon clasifieds yesterday, sporting a Jelco 750D Arm. Looked pretty nice, and I'd bet sounds really good too. Mark
 
Mr. Lin said:
It's not that I'm trying to put down the Technics owners, I know they're nice turntables, but people get carried away about them here.
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Agreed, I wonder why they get talked about so much? Almost like you have to justify owning one.
 
I have a 1210MG.....

I like it a lot....

I once had a Rega P3 and a Rega P25......I like the 1210 better....

Is it better than my Scheu with Hadcock arm??? No. And it shouldn't be considering its cost compared to the other TT.....

Is it better than some TTs? Yes.

I don't have to justify the fact that I have one and enjoy its ease of use and the detachable headshells making cartridge changes a breeze......

I don't have to justify the other equipment I am using to produce music...I like what I have and if others don't like what I have they can have a pissing contest up a rope....

Can we just get back to discussing the merits and demerits of the 1200 series so we can learn more about the instrument??????

Thanks for your consideration...

PS: I am an "audiophile" and I use the 1200 series to play my 7K plus record collection....am I bad???
 
Jfine,

With all respect, it's comments like this that can seem like "baiting".

I don't think that's your intention- it's obviously a sensitive topic and since the boutique TT world has adopted belt drive as the method of construction since the advent of CD and the premature hailing of the death of vinyl- the belt drive choice easily argued as either a cheaper cost decision, or if you have it another way, perhaps the better method. Either one will have it's choice supported.

Thus the poisoning of the direct drive well, so to speak.

The reason they get talked about is for low cash layout you get great sound and outstanding reliability, and therefore are loved by many.

Other folk feel the need to pooh pooh these tables, or outright insult people's choice for buying one.

Folk drink the Kool Aid that all Japanese tables, and especially direct drives, are an inferior design.

That's why.

Another reason?

The DJ stigmata. The table proved reliable and sturdy and produced great sound, and were adopted by DJs thus so. But, as designed, it was Technic's answer as an audiophile table.

A nice turntable, whether a Rega or Pro-Ject or Technics is a nice turntable.


For the price that most people seem to be willing to spend on a table, or for some, all they can afford, it's a completely viable and sensible choice.


Why insult it? Can there be but one choice for good audio? Can it be only your choice?


I get it. A new Rega P3 is a nice table. I like the arm. A vintage thorens has a certain magic to the sound. Linn and VPI turn out some respectable tables but at what- four times the price? Perhaps five?

I prefer the precise quartz motor of these Japanese direct drives. I prefer the hearty mechanics. I prefer swappable headshells.

I don't expect the Thorens and Linn and AR and Rega owners to have to defend to me the build quality of their componentry, the lack of quartz lock and any wow and flutter that may be resultant, the proprietary headshells, their choice of motors whether for budgetary reasons to reach pricepoints or whatever, the effort it takes to make sure the table is up to spec and performing at 100%, and so on.


Why? Because despite these issues that keep me from owning any more belt drives or European vintage tables, I know they are still excellent tables and can be smart choices for other people to own.
 
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We only get carried away due to the fact that these machines are amazing bargains for the money. They're very nice stock and are easily tweakable into something even better. They have never lost their quality even with inflation. I like many different turntables and many different approaches to drive systems and tonearms. I like quality build and engineering. The high end specialty companies don't dabble in direct drive due to the cost of developing those specialized motors and all that custom IC circuitry from scratch. Even Panasonic couldn't afford to do it now. Goldmund is one of the few who ever dared do that. If the SL-1200 was a new design from scratch, it would cost over $2500 new. Since they've been in continuous production since 1972, they're a bargain since the old tooling was paid for many years ago. They're not for everyone but well suited for most vinyl and music lovers needs for a solid, well made basic turntable. But not your only option out there.
 
I appreciate everyones comments, but the funny thing about these threads on the 1200 series someone always has to bash them which is there rite but I often wonder have they lived with a Modded Technics or are they forming there opinion on what other bashers have said. It's like those that refer to the arm as inferior. Awhile back i got into a heated argument with a Technics basher at another site. he kept trying to say that the Rega arms where head and shoulders above the 1210M5G arm so i asked him name me any arm in that price range that tops it. I never got a reply only snoddy comments.
 
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