Technics SL-1200 series as an audiophile turntable?

[thedelihaus]

I'm a big fan of good quality sound- whether belt drive, direct drive, idler wheel drive, European, Japanese or American.

I also like the Rega P3 and RB 250 and 300 arm.

Thing is, for what the SL-1200 sells for new, you can do worse for that price.

New, can you do better for that price? Or do you need to spend more?


And are Thorens, AR, Linn and Rega at their best right out of the box?

Or do these tables also respond well to modifications?

Are people wasting their money re-plinthing them? Buying parts from Origin Live? Is Cardas a scam?

And if these tables are perfect as-is, why does Linn have a model named Basic? Is an Ittok needed if the Basic is that good? Why does Rega offer numerous models? Why not sell the P-1 or P-2 only? Why does a P-3 need to be offered?

To use the excuse that the Technics is "not right" because it adapts well to mods is akin to saying that adding an improved weight or VTA base to the RB-250/300 arm is bunk- it should come that way stock.

Heck- maybe it should come that way stock. But what's that going to do to the list price? To sales?

And does it mean that, in stock form, right out of the box, it's not audiophile?

 

[thedelihaus]

Regarding "vintage gold"...

Arguing that a brand-spanking new, $500 Technics can be beat by a vintage purchase is redundant.

This can be applied to things like appliances, furniture, motorcycles, cars, amplifiers.

Buy a cool Rust-free and very clean 1972 Cutlass with a 350, or a 2004 Miata convertable, for $5000/6000(respectfully) right now- both on my street.

Or I can opt for a new Toyota Yaris- base, bare bones model, for $12,599.

What's going to be more fun to own? And at what price savings?



Oh- and used 1200s can be had for under $200.


So, the comparo should not be about a new $500 table vs a used $200 table.

And before any wise-arse remarks trying to correlate a Yaris to a Technics- that's not what I'm saying.

I'd consider the technics to be like the venerable Chevy 350V8. Good enough for the family's Sunday drive in the Impala, good enough for the drag car '68 Camaro, good enough for the Z71 pickup and four wheeling, good enough for the blast up Pike's Peak in the Corvette.

 

[HypnoToad]

I'm a big fan of good quality sound- whether belt drive, direct drive, idler wheel drive, European, Japanese or American.

I also like the Rega P3 and RB 250 and 300 arm.

Thing is, for what the SL-1200 sells for new, you can do worse for that price.

New, can you do better for that price? Or do you need to spend more?

It's fantastic value for the price, no denying that.

It's quite simple if you want better you pay more, that's true of most things in life.

Unfortunately to get twice the quality it may cost you more than twice the price, that's true of most things in life as well.

 

[thedelihaus]

It's fantastic value for the price, no denying that.

It's quite simple if you want better you pay more, that's true of most things in life.

Unfortunately to get twice the quality it may cost you more than twice the price, that's true of most things in life as well.

Indeed.

Spock would say it's logical.

 

[whell]

Back on topic, one thing I loathe about the SL-1200 are the feet.

I get a little shell-shocked at the custom KAB feet, but they are some serious kit.

The stock technics feet though? Garbage.

Sony used to put on some nice feet on their PS series- gelling filled. And early technics feet were adequate.

My opinion is these feet are like putting KEDS on an athelete.

Keds? How 'bout swapping for some Nike Airs?

I liked the effect that this cheap tweak had. I'm trying cones right now, though, and might like them a bit better.

 

[thedelihaus]

Keds? How 'bout swapping for some Nike Airs?

I liked the effect that this cheap tweak had. I'm trying cones right now, though, and might like them a bit better.

I like your solution- but I'm sure in my clumsiness I'd knock it clear off the table!

 

[BigManAndy]

I'd consider the technics to be like the venerable Chevy 350V8. Good enough for the family's Sunday drive in the Impala, good enough for the drag car '68 Camaro, good enough for the Z71 pickup and four wheeling, good enough for the blast up Pike's Peak in the Corvette.

I love how you worded that!! Couldn't have said it any better, it really does seem to fit the 1200.


It's not a Ferrari V12, but it's also not a 1.8l I4. It's just a excellent performer for the money, and to many (including myself) 100% satisfying for my needs and budget. And like the 350, its virtually indestructible, but can smoke the tires off the rims if need be.

 

[niklasthedol]

A bit of a recap. this new wave started because a poster (cant remember) was happy to have gotten a 1200. I told that poster that I was building a Macintosh system with that as my turntable, then this happend:

Any Technics TT's in any modification is a great entry-level low-end TT suitable for DJ'ing and Radio Broadcasting due to it's sturdyness.

However, it is recommended, by user and e.g. BBC, to modify this TT until not recognisable anymore.
Platter, Bearing, Arm, Plinth, Power, Motor Control, Motor, Signal Path, Lid..... you name it.......anything!!!
I have even seen a modification to the better suggesting to alter the TT into a suspended one.

Buy different and get it right, or almost right, from the start.

"dolph"

Ok. now my post (directed at the op who started this thread up again) did not warrant that responce "the buy different and buy right" is not me getting mad because he doesnt agree that the 1200 is the best money can buy (which I never had said, never will say) I dont mind if somone likes another turntable better than a 1200, I KNOW its not the best money can buy, but saying "buy different and buy right" is saying it is wrong to own this turntable....thats is whats bothering all the posters in the 1200 camp since then. now do all the 1200 haters see what I am talking about? so no talk of hitting nerves, mine arent hit. It just seems evryone has the wrong idea about why we're annoyed, thats alll. not trying to stir up any arguments..just trying to clear up the point that is getting lost. no need to lock the thread. You can own any table you want, even if it actually IS worse then a 1200.

It seems like you took offence in my post as referred to.

But my point in basic is why buy something and modify it way out of originality.
Nothing original left means it's a different TT.

Those modifications are for improvements and that's just great.

I am just trying to frame my comment about buying different and get it almost right from the start.

You can also see speakers bought that has no tone to deliver bass.
Then some people buy subwoofers to correct this problem.
Issues following is disintegration, lack of soundstage and perspective, lack of precision etc. etc.

Some people could save money and trouble and even get it better from the start if not doing research and choise only halfway.

Do they like the process or the result?

If it's about the process of modifying, fine with me, but then admit it out there.

My aim is stricktly the sound.

And even after so many posts confusing the determination of the best Technics TT's, I will stay on my opinion that they can be great value for people getting into hifi and music enjoyment.
But they will never, no matter how unrecognizable they get modified, be competitive with many other high end TT's in terms of sound quality.

"dolph"

 

[Jeff K]

Just to stir things up, in a friendly way, please follow the link below. I wouldn't necessarily put stock in such a post, but John is a retired Air Force mechanical engineer, has been a respected contributor at AA for several years, and is one of the few people still measuring analog components. In any event, he has me contemplating his recommendation to replace my MMF-7.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/85/851484.html

Jeff

 

[Cantabury Guy]

Just to stir things up, in a friendly way, please follow the link below. I wouldn't necessarily put stock in such a post, but John is a retired Air Force mechanical engineer, has been a respected contributor at AA for several years, and is one of the few people still measuring analog components. In any event, he has me contemplating his recommendation to replace my MMF-7.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/85/851484.html

Jeff

I have such a KAB and find the above statement impossible in a real world situation and would defer from even debating its merit. I would hope this line of thinking is best ignored. Please.

 

[thedelihaus]

Just to stir things up, in a friendly way, please follow the link below. I wouldn't necessarily put stock in such a post, but John is a retired Air Force mechanical engineer, has been a respected contributor at AA for several years, and is one of the few people still measuring analog components. In any event, he has me contemplating his recommendation to replace my MMF-7.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/85/851484.html

Jeff

"...My advice would be to save yourself some money and buy a KAB modified Technics SL-1200 Mk2 with Cardas rewire, tonearm damping and strobe disabler. That's what I did and it sounds just as good as my $8000 Sota Millennia with $5000 SME V tonearm. Just make sure you have an excellent phono stage. I think the phono stage makes a lot of difference..."

While I would tend to believe an excellent phono stage makes a lot of difference, and the KAB mods improve on a good design to make it great, I also find it hard to swallow that it could beat any table of at least decent quality with such a fantastic arm as an SME V.

Problem is, an SME V (and Sota Millennia) aren't in my budget.:tears:

 

[jfine]

I have such a KAB and find the above statement impossible in a real world situation and would defer from even debating its merit. I would hope this line of thinking is best ignored. Please.

We cant know since we haven't heard his SOTA and his KAB on his system in his room, using his source.

 

[jfine]

Jfine,With all respect, it's comments like this that can seem like "baiting".

I wanted to know why this table causes so much discussion, and why some people who own them seem to have to go thru **** slinging. That's it. I mean I dont ask many questions about a 1200 anymore because I get tired of the negs.

No bait intended. In fact if you read my posts backwards there's no hidden meanings either (I hope)

 

[Cantabury Guy]

We cant know since we haven't heard his SOTA and his KAB on his system in his room.

Yeh.....but there would have to be something amis with the Sota. I would think such parity would raise a red flag.

 

[HypnoToad]

Not to get off track but years ago I thought the platter was just for spinning the album at the right speed.

I bought an SME 3009 II arm and mounted it on a JH turntable, a cheap belt drive device with an pressed aluminum platter.

Now fitted with a Shure V15 III I thought I would get true audiophile sound.

How wrong I was, it didn't sound anywhere near as nice as friends mid range Pioneer with a Pickering cart.

I wanted to buy a Technics SL 120 to fit it to but the cost was as much as a SL 1200 and I had run out of funds.

I nearly bought a SL 120 to put a top arm on recently, I may in the future fit another arm to my SL 1200 Mk 2 to see how it sounds.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Yeh.....but there would have to be something amis with the Sota. I would think such parity would raise a red flag.

Agreed, that's a pretty outrageous claim. I'd be interested in knowing what other components are involved in his system, especially cartridges.

 

[jfine]

Yeh.....but there would have to be something amis with the Sota. I would think such parity would raise a red flag.

Or maybe he just prefers the KAB sound/features. Too subjective.

 

[dumptruck]

Do people never get tired of this discussion? Sheesh. I think someone should make a website that consists of nothing but a forum for people to rant and rave about whether one should or shouldn't use a 1200 for a serious home hifi system and what it is fair to compare it to before and after mods and so on. That way every new post on other forums about it could simply be replied to with a link to said website. It would probably be larger than Wikipedia.

Oh, and the answer of course is that yes you can use it and you should.

 

[marqueemoon]

I think KAB makes a good argument about the merits of the stock 1200. I am less convinced by some of the other claims, but for my projected budget for a second turntable, a 1200 is definitely on the short list.

 

[Jeff K]

Originally Posted by Cantabury Guy View Post
Yeh.....but there would have to be something amis with the Sota. I would think such parity would raise a red flag.
Agreed, that's a pretty outrageous claim. I'd be interested in knowing what other components are involved in his system, especially cartridges.

Here ya go. Be sure to check out John's picture gallery. Especially his measurements of gear. I really think you'd have a hard time finding a more credible source. He certainly would know if his SOTA wasn't working properly. If it were someone else, I may easily dismiss his claims.:scratch2:

http://cgi.audioasylum.com/cgi/mail.mpl?user_ID=3771&f=vinyl


Jeff