technics w/black widow

[frankmarsi]

THanks for your reply....

Nice purchase. It looked interesting to me but I have a couple CF arms already but would like to have an ∞ Black Widow in the harem.

I've never had a 'Black-Widow', but back in the day, I always wondered what they were all about, they were a 'major' item back then. Please understand that I go way back to the early days of stereo components and the like. MY father always tried to fix and correct radios and TV's since I was able to understand the whole concept for me since 1953 and on. I started to buy 'stereo-components' and started to build "Dynakits" in 1967.
The next following weeks will either prove me correct or haplessly wrong.
Thanks for the positive energy.
Respectfully, Frank Marsi

 

[frankmarsi]

Thanks for your come back!!!

I'm just teasing you I am glad that your gamble paid off. It is one I would not have taken, but glad to hear its working out. Now, we will need some photos of it all cleaned up.

I will try to post fotos asap.
I appreciate your humor and candor.
We'll talk and become 'site-friends', I'm sure.
Best to you.
Respectfully, Frank Marsi

 

[frankmarsi]

In terms of systems......

I drive four stacked AR-LST's with two (2800 old RMS watts at four ohms in total) completely rebuilt by Ed Blackwood in WA., Phase Linear 700 Series Two amps through a Carver 4000 pre-amp.
I'm more than happy with the results. The 'front-end' is two Technics-1200 w/ original crazy-looking and cheap seeming original arms-nonetheless the whole system sounded more than great to me. My favorite cartridge is the much heralded AT-440MLA, although number two favorite is the AT-150MLZ followed by a vintage Shure V-15Type 4 w/S.A.S. imported stylus. Then of course there's always my original.'1974 Shure Type 3 w/an Ed Saunders better tip. It may be soon replaced with an S.A.S. stylus? I must also mention my Denon DL-160.
My first personally bought table in 1967 was a Garrard Model 40, their lowest priced item, I was 18.
I then in 1971 bought an AR-xa, then in 1975 a Tannoy/Micro-Seiki TM-55 direct-drive. Since then after a number of divorces (from women, not soley turntables) I decided to move into more vintage-component buying on a low level budget. Then in 2010 I decided to try out examples of Technics tables that I declined from buying in 1975 in favor of the TM-55, the Sl-1200 Mk1's were always a good looking table and their platters and cast base were very attractive.Problem was the name "Technics" was a brand new name back then although they were strong considerations for me.
The TM-55 had speed problems since it was only 2 yrs. old in '77, a major problem but I wouldn't admit it and always played with the little top side speed controls to save even my own thoughts.
Only now am I a devoted SL-120/Sl-1200Mk.1 believer after buying my first SL-1200MK1 six or so months ago.
Regards to all here and everywhere.
FM
P.S. All 'gun-control' and all major control systems from steering to compasses/navigation on WW2 US Navy ships were all 'servo-motor' controlled! Not the same as these T.T's, but it still sounds good to the ear. The war was won. World-wide technical advances were as such.
Yes newer techno-stuff will always go on and I appreciate a good amount of it. I personally enjoy old stereo gear, old houses, especially old American cars and young women.
History is one of my favorite topics, although I wish I knew more and that age was not a problem for the living. I am still quietly hoping for world peace!
Who knew?
FM

 

[Tedrick]

Congrats on a nice pick up. The BW is a fine tonearm. I have one in a secondary system mounted on a Kenwood 'table and it sounds great. If you don't already know, the BW 'arm needs a high-compliance cartridge. Low-compliance carts, which includes most modern MC carts, will not work with the BW.

 

[frankmarsi]

Mostly all is done except.....

First off, thanks to all members who have responded.
Well, I've cleaned the table over and mounted the arm and set up mostly every setting possible, now the stumbling block of 'cartridge-alignment' has me baffled. It must be a mental block? For example, any free and printable alignment gauge seems to have me wondering if I'm correct or just plain 'dense'? At what direction is the gauge point at, the arm's pivot, cause if it does it doesn't seems to match up, etc. etc.
Can anyone be kind enough to explain to me in a simple and easy way how to set-up a cartridge with an arm that needs to be? If one does, please pretend that you're speaking to a child/caveman. I'm used to already mounted arms, I never owned an arm where I have to do all of the adjustments.
While I'm here any one have some nice looking and correct nuts and bolts to mount the tone arm to its base with- for sale, or even a source?
I'm playing around with the supplied cartridge, a Shure M75, a low end affair before I mount another better one on the arm, which by the way is not going to be as simple as using a detachable head shell as I have on my other tables.
Also, gee it's not easy to take the large amount of 'play' with this arm's bearings seriously, very scary, but I guess that's how it's made? Also I haven't really gotten as far as seeing if the tone arm wires are broken or anything like that yet as I want to learn all of the alignment essentials first. Interestingly so, I believe my arm might be the aluminum version as it feels cold to the touch?
Thanks, to one and all. When I'm finally done I will post fotos.
FM

 

[Blue Shadow]

Grab the Baerwald alignment protractor off VE and print it full size.

cut the hole in the center for the spindle and install the protractor on the table

put the stylus at the first alignment point and adjust so that the cartridge is parallel and perpendicular to the lines.

The ∞ may require movement of the entire arm if it is like the SME to achieve proper alignment.

repeat for the inner alignment point.

Repeat to verify the stylus is at the exact spot.

Time to move this discussion to the TT forum for best responses.

 

[zman]

Glad it worked out for you. I wanted just the infinity but I was afraid it wouldnt be packed properly and was certain it would have been broken.
If I knew he could pack you would have paid more.
Congrats.

 

[frankmarsi]

as luck would have it.......

It appears as though the Black-Widow's wires are extremely short and are with-out the clips that would normally be attached to a cartridge, this is why the former owner used black tape.
Seems like the only option is to install new wires through the arm and start all over? Does anyone have any suggestions where this wire with clips can be purchased and also have any experience on how to perform this very delicate procedure in installing wire through this arm? I must admit I felt it would be easy at first, but now I'm in a tough spot.
All input is appreciated.
Thanks, FM

 

[Blue Shadow]

would adding the clips make the wires long enough? If not, all new wires is the right step.

Rewiring a tonearm can be tricky, but not necessarily. I don't have personal experience with the BW.

Generally, the wire is purchased as wire and clips are added.

Might be time to trust this arm to your friendly neighborhood electronics tech. Shouldn't be too much money.

Partconnexion has a selection of tonearm wire and cartridge clips.

A google search turns up a company that says they will rewire tonearms if you decide it is something you want to have done.

 

[frankmarsi]

Black Widow woes........

would adding the clips make the wires long enough? If not, all new wires is the right step.

Rewiring a tonearm can be tricky, but not necessarily. I don't have personal experience with the BW.

Generally, the wire is purchased as wire and clips are added.

Might be time to trust this arm to your friendly neighborhood electronics tech. Shouldn't be too much money.

Partconnexion has a selection of tonearm wire and cartridge clips.

A google search turns up a company that says they will rewire tonearms if you decide it is something you want to have done.

Thanks for the reply "Blue-Shadow". I've done research for the last 3 hours since I realize my new set of problems. I located a guy in the Carolinas who said he'd do it all at a fair price. This seems to be my only recourse as this arm is extremely small and appropriate wires are a major consideration in terms of re-wiring of course. "BritAudio" is the company's name and the fellow who contacted me seems knowledgeable and certainly experienced.
I feel that although I paid a very good price for my SL-120 and BW arm, it's worth a little more money to have some of the best vintage pieces around for mid-budget vinyl playback.
I will continue to search some more but, I feel confident in this guys abilities and experienced services.
Please, anyone else around with a similar experience, contact this forum here so that I may learn some more.
My thanks and appreciation to all who make an effort.
Sincerely, Frank Marsi

 

[zman]

Seems to me you use a fish wire through it and attach or solder the new wire to it then pull through the new wires, at least that seems the way to do it. You may want to consider at this time using silver audio wire if thats not allready what your thinking , or just use the best you can get but now is the time to get the best out of the infinity. The terminals are soldered on to the wires after the wire is fed through.

 

[DENNYDOG]

Glad to hear the turntable and tonearm turned out to be in good shape. I had that one on my watch list and was going to bid on it but have bought way to many things lately and decided to pass.

Here is a link to the Cardas wire at PartsConnexion.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_tonearm_cardas.html#

Here is a link to the Black Widow manual on the VinylEngine. You will have to register if you haven't done so already. It's free and a great source of info.

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/infinity/black-widow.shtml

 

[frankmarsi]

Much thanks.

Seems to me you use a fish wire through it and attach or solder the new wire to it then pull through the new wires, at least that seems the way to do it. You may want to consider at this time using silver audio wire if thats not allready what your thinking , or just use the best you can get but now is the time to get the best out of the infinity. The terminals are soldered on to the wires after the wire is fed through.

As you've said this method sounds
-do-able'. But the actual wires from my failing eyes plus glasses can see, this job is a mother with some many possible problems.
I may consider your suggestion, but "I'm -a -scared-Alice"!
FM

 

[frankmarsi]

Good gosh, over 5,000 posts???

Glad to hear the turntable and tonearm turned out to be in good shape. I had that one on my watch list and was going to bid on it but have bought way to many things lately and decided to pass.

Here is a link to the Cardas wire at PartsConnexion.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_tonearm_cardas.html#

Here is a link to the Black Widow manual on the VinylEngine. You will have to register if you haven't done so already. It's free and a great source of info.

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/infinity/black-widow.shtml

With that many posts you gotta believe that I may trust you by now?
So maybe I don't know any better, but I have to say this arm's wires are a tuff-one!
Please advise as you see fit, gosh I need the help here!
I'm open to yours and all other's opinions right now!
FM

 

[zman]

I just dug out my own black widow and it looks like the place to start is the headshell, remove the screw and wiggle it off. The it looks like there is a small round end cap that the idividual wires feed through, stop there and move on to the rear of the arm. There is a allen set screw that secures the DIN male plug inside the arms base, you should remove it and drop it on a piece of tape so it doesnt get lost. See if the DIN is now loose and maybe if there is enough wire it will just drop out the bottom, There is also a second allen screw they may both hold the DIN.
It may be the DIN doesnt drop out the bottom but rather pulls out the top with the wires but loosening the set screws it will become aparent, so next remove the two screws that hold the arm onto the shaft then pull away the arm. now it should become apparent how they assemble it and next you need to snip or de solder the wires at the DIN end.
Now your arm is ready for the new wires, snip off any plug ends of the wires on the headshell end, remove the end cap with the 4 little holes , you can use the old wires to pull through the new ones by taking all or even two of the old wires and solder all 4 new to the old ones and pull them through leave plenty of excesss for reassembly.
Now you can solder them to the DIN, re secure the DIN in the tube, then re assemble the tonearm to the post, secure the two screws, pull the excess slack from the headshell end but leave a bit for arm movement. Feed the 4 wires back through the end cap with the little holes, push the end cap back in ,install the headshell then cut the wires to legnth , solder the little female pins for the cartrige and I think thats about it.
Its allot more to say then it is to do..Should be just an hour to complete.

 

[DENNYDOG]

I was just thinking there are a few guys on Ebay that sell tonearm wire with the leads already attached. This might be the easiest for a strait arm rewire as it's one less step to deal with.

 

[frankmarsi]

Thanks much!

I just dug out my own black widow and it looks like the place to start is the headshell, remove the screw and wiggle it off. The it looks like there is a small round end cap that the idividual wires feed through, stop there and move on to the rear of the arm. There is a allen set screw that secures the DIN male plug inside the arms base, you should remove it and drop it on a piece of tape so it doesnt get lost. See if the DIN is now loose and maybe if there is enough wire it will just drop out the bottom, There is also a second allen screw they may both hold the DIN.
It may be the DIN doesnt drop out the bottom but rather pulls out the top with the wires but loosening the set screws it will become aparent, so next remove the two screws that hold the arm onto the shaft then pull away the arm. now it should become apparent how they assemble it and next you need to snip or de solder the wires at the DIN end.
Now your arm is ready for the new wires, snip off any plug ends of the wires on the headshell end, remove the end cap with the 4 little holes , you can use the old wires to pull through the new ones by taking all or even two of the old wires and solder all 4 new to the old ones and pull them through leave plenty of excesss for reassembly.
Now you can solder them to the DIN, re secure the DIN in the tube, then re assemble the tonearm to the post, secure the two screws, pull the excess slack from the headshell end but leave a bit for arm movement. Feed the 4 wires back through the end cap with the little holes, push the end cap back in ,install the headshell then cut the wires to legnth , solder the little female pins for the cartrige and I think thats about it.
Its allot more to say then it is to do..Should be just an hour to complete.

Thanks zman!
Well, you've inspired me to take a look at the arm and decide if I can or I cannot handle this? At first I thought I could, then felt not sure of myself, but after your step by step instructions, tomorrow I'll dismantle it all and take a look. One thing for certain, it appears my head shell has a small screw, however it also looks like the HS is glued where it attaches to the arm tube, must be an early model? Further reading from other's findings indicates that it won't come apart from that junction.
Thanks much for the info, you've been very helpful.
Will let you know my findings.
FM

 

[frankmarsi]

Tone arm re-wire: Black Widow on SL-120

Spoke to company today (email) and I was told when I asked about insulation such as foam,etc. being installed after arm is rewired and they said; that their wire is 'braided' any doesn't require and insulation implying that their will not cause any and 'damp' by virtue of being braided. To me braided or not I feel even as small as the BW tube is, it might benefit from some form of vibration damping in the arm.
Yesterday "zman" gave me confidence to do the job on my own, but I still on the fence about alot of things regarding a 're-wire' attempt. I worry about things such as if I have done, will the forget to give enough slack so the arm won't bind strain relief while pivoting, are the wires being used 'good' enough, will the connectors be of poor quality, etc. If I do it on my own, I'd make sure of such things. Problem now is I'm finding varied prices of Cardas (I don't know which to choose or want to spend too much) 4 group shielded or is that too big for the B.W. plus an additional black ground wire too.? I'm hearing "Discovery" wire has a better sound stage than Cardas, there's also "Incognito" wire . Then, Cardas on spools, braided and suggestions of using phone and mice wire. I'm reading that silver is cheaper, but won't sound as good, it seems the more I research, the more confused I become as to the many possibilities. Then there's the soldering of those tiny connectors and wires and the connection to that plug(din?). THen what about not going to a din plug at all and using something like the
"kabusa" PC1200 ( http://www.kabusa.com/gif/pc1200a.jpg ) connector box so that I could use different interconnects at will although I'd have to mount differently on a SL-120? By the way Kevin emailed me back to he'll only rewire a Technics 1200 arm. To cap it, I just fast and good and really quick. Does anyone have any input or similar experience?
FM

 

[onepixel]

Frank, you have to stop trying to out smart yourself. One step at a time.

The individual CARDAS wires or the 4 x 33 awg tonearm wire with shield, in the link DENNYDOG provided should work well. You can always spend more, a lot more, depending on your budget. Start here, get a little practice and you can always upgrade later.

Good luck!

 

[thedelihaus]

I can't check the black widow right now as I'm working, but the tube is very thin and narrow.

I am concerned the Cardas wire may be a bit too thick, Frank. It may work, but I'm thinking it may be too thick and too stiff. Certain arms are ideal for the thicker Cardas, but many others are not.


I've grown quite fond of the thin and friendly to work with ISOkinetik Litz wire. Not at all expensive, and does not cause any binding at pivot points like the Cardas does with some arms.

The Black Widow arm tube is very narrow- the hollow part about as thick as a cocktail stirrer or coffee straw. Not much room. You can braid the ISOkinetik Litz wire and still have "wiggle room".

As for damping the arm tube- two reasons I would not.

1) it's going to mess with the balance of this featherweight light arm.

2) there's not really much room in the arm tube- especially with wires in this narrow channel.

3) If you ever have a problem, it's going to be a nightmare to re-wire the arm- if you break a wire, you may need to replace it, and are going to need to remove the old wire.


Good advice has been given about how to thread the wire through the arm tube.

And to save yourself a headache, I'd also buy the wire with the cartridge leads already attached- it requires a steady hand and lots of patience and good eyesight to do it right yourself.

Best wishes,

Paul