technics w/black widow

[frankmarsi]

Re-wiring Black Widow on SL-120

Uh-Oh! Well before reading your posting "thedelihaus", I purchased 2 feet of each of the five colored 33 gauge wires from PC. I'm hoping they'll fit, if not any other suggestions? Pulling the cable sounds easy enough in a three inch pipe, but tying one to the other may present problems in this tiny tube. If I were to use a smaller wire, I'm wondering because of its thin-ness it might be difficult to wiggle through the arm tube. Only wires I found with pre-soldered clips I believe were a bit bigger in size? I guess I have to wait and see when I receive the 33AWG, but please forward any sources for the Litz wire you mentioned as I was only able to find it somewhat costly, silk wrapped and from England. Any leads for good quality but, not bulky cart. clips? I'll try looking some more. You've made sense about the 'damping' question I had.Seems I'm spending too much time on the web and not listening to music, not a good way to be. Years ago one had to rely on magazines, stereo stores (there were many in NYC in the '60-'70s and in my late teens and early twenties scoured them all) or the one or two friends that may have had good equipment and like interests.

Regarding the SL-120; I'm also curious if you or anyone knows of a strong solution that would clean the cast plinth with out harming the paint/powder coat and silk screening? Seems that after two cleaning attempts some of what appear to be greasy stains are still present along the sides. Letting it run periodically everyday for hours at a time, I gotta say the speed is 'spot-on' just as my other two SL-120's. I think I found my last tables, I now want to play around with low-mass/reasonable cost arms. I also will continue to trust in high-compliance cartridges. I found an SL-120 arm board for under $60USD from Australia for SME, just needs a re-spray in semi-mat black. I really got this SL-120 'bug' and I can't shake it! Winter is here so, I'll be doing 'inside' things when I can.
I got big ears so, I will pay attention to information put forth.
Thanks for replying Paul and the same to the others who have replied.
FM

 

[onepixel]

I checked my carbon fiber tube before I suggested the Cardas. Might be snug, but should fit.

 

[thedelihaus]

Uh-Oh! Well before reading your posting "thedelihaus", I purchased 2 feet of each of the five colored 33 gauge wires from PC. I'm hoping they'll fit, if not any other suggestions? Pulling the cable sounds easy enough in a three inch pipe, but tying one to the other may present problems in this tiny tube. If I were to use a smaller wire, I'm wondering because of its thin-ness it might be difficult to wiggle through the arm tube. Only wires I found with pre-soldered clips I believe were a bit bigger in size? I guess I have to wait and see when I receive the 33AWG, but please forward any sources for the Litz wire you mentioned as I was only able to find it somewhat costly, silk wrapped and from England. Any leads for good quality but, not bulky cart. clips? I'll try looking some more. You've made sense about the 'damping' question I had.Seems I'm spending too much time on the web and not listening to music, not a good way to be. Years ago one had to rely on magazines, stereo stores (there were many in NYC in the '60-'70s and in my late teens and early twenties scoured them all) or the one or two friends that may have had good equipment and like interests.

Regarding the SL-120; I'm also curious if you or anyone knows of a strong solution that would clean the cast plinth with out harming the paint/powder coat and silk screening? Seems that after two cleaning attempts some of what appear to be greasy stains are still present along the sides. Letting it run periodically everyday for hours at a time, I gotta say the speed is 'spot-on' just as my other two SL-120's. I think I found my last tables, I now want to play around with low-mass/reasonable cost arms. I also will continue to trust in high-compliance cartridges. I found an SL-120 arm board for under $60USD from Australia for SME, just needs a re-spray in semi-mat black. I really got this SL-120 'bug' and I can't shake it! Winter is here so, I'll be doing 'inside' things when I can.
I got big ears so, I will pay attention to information put forth.
Thanks for replying Paul and the same to the others who have replied.
FM

Frank, see if the cardas works first. If not, try this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TONEARM-REWIRIN...Accessories&hash=item2a0ba25aad#ht_3162wt_922

Or this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Litz-tonearm-wi...Accessories&hash=item27aae22789#ht_1103wt_689


For rough stubborn stains, I use a soft bristle toothbrush and Simple Green or Simple Orange. Unfortunately, sometimes the paint gets stained and is not easily cleaned.

 

[frankmarsi]

RE: Tone arm rewiring

Thanks "thedelihaus. I ordered the individual Cardas wires from PartsConnexion, awaiting their arrival.
I intend to attempt this job, but I'm still on the fence about the whole operation.
If I deem it beyond my capabilities then I will strongly consider sending the arm to "BritAudio" in the Carolinas, he wants $149.00 complete with return shipping, however I'm still wondering if that's the best way to go? Seems like there aren't any other choices? I really do want to hear how this arm sounds. Regarding the slight stains this table has, I scared about ruining the finish.
Any advice? I wish a Merry Christmas to all!
FM

 

[frankmarsi]

RE: Tone arm rewiring

Thanks "thedelihaus. I ordered the individual Cardas wires from PartsConnexion, ($24. in total),awaiting their arrival.
I intend to attempt this job, but I'm still on the fence about the whole operation.
If I deem it beyond my capabilities then I will strongly consider sending the arm to "BritAudio" in the Carolinas, he wants $149.00 complete with return shipping, however I'm still wondering if that's the best way to go? Seems like there aren't any other choices? I really do want to hear how this arm sounds.
Any advice?
FM

 

[Blue Shadow]

As I have probably said, most audio repair shops would be more than capable of wiring that arm. Prices vary around the country somewhat based on the cost of living in the area. So you may find someone nearby that can make this arm work for you.

Now you are getting plenty of views and such here in $ & ¢, but you are in a discussion about the tonearm and its repair. You might want to get some opinions in the Turntable forum. But whatever, I don't care, just waiting until you get this arm working to read how you like it.

 

[bobrown14]

Thanks "thedelihaus. I ordered the individual Cardas wires from PartsConnexion, ($24. in total),awaiting their arrival.
I intend to attempt this job, but I'm still on the fence about the whole operation.
If I deem it beyond my capabilities then I will strongly consider sending the arm to "BritAudio" in the Carolinas, he wants $149.00 complete with return shipping, however I'm still wondering if that's the best way to go? Seems like there aren't any other choices? I really do want to hear how this arm sounds.
Any advice?
FM

Seems a little steep for fishing wires thru a tube - is that price for the complete TT setup? I would think so for that $$. I would get the wires and report back and let the experts guide you thru it right here.

Cheers and happy holidaze,

Bob

 

[frankmarsi]

das rite....

As I have probably said, most audio repair shops would be more than capable of wiring that arm. Prices vary around the country somewhat based on the cost of living in the area. So you may find someone nearby that can make this arm work for you.

Now you are getting plenty of views and such here in $ & ¢, but you are in a discussion about the tonearm and its repair. You might want to get some opinions in the Turntable forum. But whatever, I don't care, just waiting until you get this arm working to read how you like it.

Some guy on the net just contacted me on Cmas and he wants $300.00, das nuts!
I'd rather do it myself and finally finish after this over-done post (My fault, I ask of you all to pardon), and I will post and show the results when I'm finally finished. Till then, you'll all be wondering as I, myself will. My 10 yr. old G4 cpu is finally failing me too, so when I fix all of my probs. I will be in touch. I wish a good new year to all.
fm

 

[frankmarsi]

Wire Options?

Dear members, does anyone have an opinion about these wires to rewire my Black-Widow arm on a SL-120. And while we're here wondering, can these wires be used on the the standard SL-1200mk1 arm that I may be rewiring or for that matter on a possible future SME Improved?
Does anyone think I should simply go for a complete arm change like the L.A.D. (Jelco 370) arm for sale on ebay? If I were to purchase that arm, is there a special mounting plate to fit the SL-120?

The offered wires I'm considering come as a double set, I feel it's a good price, and the clips seem to be of good quality, anyone's comments?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130465235313&fromMakeTrack=true

Here's another set from the same seller; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130460561170&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

And here's one more I'm considering.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180583815853&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[Blue Shadow]

Well it depends on which SME arm. Some have the removable headshell and do not need the clips on the tonearm wire. Same for the SL-1200 arm, no clips on the tonearm wire, they are on the headshell wire.

For me, I would want to get 4-color wires for this project, not just a heat shrink chunk of R-G-B-W. This would make it easier all around. As for the tags on the one from the UK, those things are HUGE. I would think they might get in the way in some instances. Most probably would be a difficult fit in a standard headshell but would be fine on the BW or some other arms. Just would look out of place on the BW as it is a finely build light weight machine and the tags are anything but.

What would you replace with the LAD? The ∞ Black Widow?

I would work on getting the correct compliance cartridge loaded into the proper tonearm. The ∞ is extremely low mass and needs the compliance of the ADC XLM or Shure V15 cartridges. The LAD, not so much. Probably a better overall arm for cartridge compatibility.

 

[frankmarsi]

Hi, and yes the clips do look rather over-sized, but they're on tiny wires too. Their size might be useful on a Black Widow, even if they might be big looking. The clips from the other seller look big also. Clips seem expensive if you want quality, and I do, but the cheaper ones don't seem worth it. For detachable head shells I use the AT-6101 gold plated and they sound really good for the money as complete items. The pre-mounted clips on tonearm wires would only be considered and used (and save me a lot of hair pulling soldering)on the BW, however I was thinking of rewiring the original SL-1200mk.1 arm too. If I have some good luck and get a SME cheap enough, I'd want to rewire it also. Once I attempt rewiring the BW and if I'm successful, I would think I could rewire almost any arm. At this stage for me it's about learning the correct wires and clips before I buy anything and doing a good job first time around all aspects considered. I'm toying with the idea of becoming a 'rewiring fool' at some point, even though I haven't taken the first step yet! Regarding the L.A.D. arm, it appears to be a Jelco 370 and one web guy is selling them at low cost. Even this one I might consider rewiring, by the way, does any one have an opinion on the L.A.D. arm I'm referring to? PM me at frankmarsi@verizon.net if you do.
I terms of cartridges I've already prepared my Shure Type 3 and Shure Type 4 for duty and they are all excited about rolling with a Black Widow.
I'm now an extremely proud owner of three Sl-1200mk.1 's and I'm very eager to get started with these upgrades.
FM.

 

[thedelihaus]

Frank,

The LAD arm is more for medium compliance carts, and even medium-low compliance carts, not the higher compliance carts you (and I) like.

If you're digging the higher compliance carts, as I seem to do as well, I'd hold out for an SME 3009 II Improved, as well as keeping your eye out for an ADC LMF-1 or LMF-2 (a big favorite of mine).

There's a guy out of Greece claiming to be selling an ADC LMF on eBay- it's not really an LMF, but more a hybrid design of the lesser, lower model ALT, with LMF parts and whatever else differences issued. It's not really even branded an ADC- whoever had the tooling after ADC pulled out of the tonearm market must have built these and who knows what corners were cut, but it's not an ADC LMF.

As for the wiring, link one and three look like what I have uses, and should work great, with link one being easier for you.

Link two should be A-ok too.

Doing a tonearm rewire can be a pain in the arse- some take me under an hour, others have fought me all the way and have taken three frustrating hours. $150 is expensive, but not out of line.

Doing it yourself however may prove a rewarding experience, and save you some cash.

 

[frankmarsi]

Dear "thedelihaus". thanks for the positive and motivating insights. I'm expecting the Partsconnexion wires any day now and I will determine which direction to go in. I must admit the possibilities I mentioned above seem to be the best way to go in terms of having cart. clips already soldered to them, it will expedite the process. You're correct about my MM cartridge preferences, also the BW may be a 'one-shot-deal' as I prefer to use head shells that allow the switching from one cart. to another- it makes vinyl use that much more fun. However, I would like to change the wires in the SL-1200mk.1 'stock' arms as I feel I may notice a slight improvement even though those arms are certainly not the best overall, sure wish I had funds for a EPA-250, but there too the bearing problem is its weak point.
I lost another SME type2 Improved auction again at over $350. It seems their prices are getting a little sky-high for my pockets. I looked into the ADC LMF-2 with the removable HS, but I presume those head shells are rare at best, I'd like to consider the Jelco's, but you're correct, they're better suited for medium-compliance cartridges, the heaviest one I own is the AT-150mlz (high-compliance) and I don't plan on buying more cartridges as I have plenty at the moment. Come to think of it, I have plenty of everything audio, it's just that the arm/wire thing was easy enough in price to improve upon.
Thanks again for your advice, I value yours and others who try to help and speak of my crazy addiction. I'm probably the only 'vinyl-freak' within more than a ten square mile area here in the five boros of NYC, although I'm certain there must be some of my 'kind' in New Jersey and in other far reaching places.
FM

 

[Blue Shadow]

Come to think of it, I have plenty of everything audio,

We don't read that often here at AK. But you are still doing what others who also claim to have plenty, get more!!

Good Luck with the rewiring. Shouldn't be too difficult and should give great results especially if the ∞BW comes back to life.

 

[thedelihaus]

Dear "thedelihaus"....

Please, feel free to call me paul.

...wish I had funds for a EPA-250, but there too the bearing problem is its weak point...

The EPA-250 will not fit the SL1200MK1 or 2. The EPA 100 uses .5 spec ruby bearings, the EPA 250/500s are, from all research besides me pulling them apart, not ruby- probably due to cost. Bearings are still excellent, however.

.....I looked into the ADC LMF-2 with the removable HS, but I presume those head shells are rare at best...

Actually, they are readily available from LP Gear, and run $15/$25 typically, for generic (but a perfect copy) and factory issued.

.....I'm probably the only 'vinyl-freak' within more than a ten square mile area here in the five boros of NYC, although I'm certain there must be some of my 'kind' in New Jersey and in other far reaching places.
FM

You'd be surprised!


I used to spend time in Williamsburg & Park Slope, had an office in Manhattan, and friends in Red Hook.


:thmbsp:

 

[frankmarsi]

Da hell.......

Dear thedelihaus, I had a business in NYC proper for over 32 yrs. maybe we have met, were you a 'goods' supplier, you know, fabric bolts, film, foto-paper, background seamless paper? I need vintage Technics SL-120 help, fast and now!
We'll talk about all of the girls later. They too also needed my help "fast and right-now"! I gave to many.
It doesn't matter, call me!
I sent you my number, bastich!
I just today shoveled 225+ feet X 17 inch shovel width, by 2+ feet high of snow.
I'm spent but, I can always talk about SL-120's and AT carts., PL amps and double stacked AR-LST speakers. Most other things interest me regarding vintage "Hi-Fi" too.
I'm a vintage guy in all respects but, always open to new ideas that discuss anything about thought and appreciation of such. I presently need SL-120 help along with tone-arm suggestions,etc. This site has taught me much about my interests, I'd still like to 'hear' more if possible.
Regarding NYC, well I've practically been and worked on more streets than most people can believe. The 'Big-City' was a good place to learn about most things, now I want to be peaceful, do my daily chores and just enjoy 'my music' and enjoy old stereo stuff.
FM





The EPA-250 will not fit the SL1200MK1 or 2. The EPA 100 uses .5 spec ruby bearings, the EPA 250/500s are, from all research besides me pulling them apart, not ruby- probably due to cost. Bearings are still excellent, however.



Actually, they are readily available from LP Gear, and run $15/$25 typically, for generic (but a perfect copy) and factory issued.




You'd be surprised!


I used to spend time in Williamsburg & Park Slope, had an office in Manhattan, and friends in Red Hook.


:thmbsp:[/QUOTE]