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Tell Me About this Turntable

Last night I began my exploration with the help of ChatGPT. Then I came over here to get real life advice from actual, you know, people. AI can be useful but one has to be careful because it can also be way off base.

This morning I fed your recommendations to it and it spit out what follows.

It had some of that information from last night, which I didn't think to post here. Apologies is that should have been posted.

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Now that I’ve seen all three pages, the comments actually clarify the situation quite a bit.

The biggest change to my view is the cartridge. I would not replace it just because it’s old. Your Realistic R1000E is a Shure-made cartridge from the M75/M91 family, and there’s longstanding documentation that these Realistic/Shure bodies can take compatible N75/N91-family styli. They’re genuinely good vintage moving-magnet cartridges, not junk. That makes Malden’s basic point sound: the cartridge body is worth keeping; the stylus is where the quality decision belongs.

That also means the fellow suggesting an AT-VM95ML isn’t giving bad advice, but he’s suggesting a different strategy. The VM95ML is an excellent modern cartridge. It would essentially say, “Forget the vintage Shure ecosystem; put a known modern cartridge on it and be done.” Perfectly reasonable, but I think it’s premature. You already own a potentially very good cartridge body, so I’d find out what it can do first.

On the turntable itself, the forum is leaning more favorably than the person who called it merely “modest entry level.” There’s good evidence that this is from the CEC-built family of Japanese belt-drive tables, and the resemblance to the Marantz 6025 is real. The Marantz 6025 service literature shows a four-pole synchronous motor, belt drive and published wow/flutter of 0.07%, while a contemporary directory specifically lists the Rotel RP-1100Q as a hysteresis-synchronous belt drive with wow/flutter under 0.2% WRMS. I would not quite say the Rotel is literally identical to the Marantz 6025 yet, because we don’t have enough evidence to establish that. Same general CEC family/platform is much safer.

The wow discussion is where several forum posters are overinterpreting your first number. They saw “0.34%” and understandably reacted as though that were a properly measured WRMS specification. But your later experiments showed the app giving you 0.19, 0.42, 0.31, 0.31 and 0.26% while the actual average speed barely moved—roughly 33.23–33.29 RPM. That makes it very difficult to regard the phone’s absolute wow number as a reliable measurement. One forum member correctly zeroed in on phone centering as a source of error. Your first post accurately reported what happened—the motor unexpectedly worked and the phone gave you 33.29/.34.

And that brings us to the belt. I would specifically not replace the belt now. The seller says it was recently replaced, the turntable starts normally, it ran silently for an extended period, and your average speed is extremely close. A new belt of wildly wrong dimensions would normally give us some evidence—slipping, poor startup, instability, visibly improper fit, or a meaningful speed error. You currently have none of those.

Could the belt nevertheless be slightly wrong and contribute to wow? Sure. We haven't proved otherwise. But replacing a recently installed belt on speculation could actually make matters worse. The belt is currently way down my suspect list.

So if this were sitting in front of me, my course would be:

  1. Leave the belt alone.
  2. Keep the Realistic/Shure cartridge.
  3. Clean the existing stylus when your brush arrives.
  4. Set up the arm properly before playing anything—tracking force and anti-skate are important.
  5. Buy a couple of $1 records and actually listen to the thing.
  6. If you decide vinyl is something you want to pursue, then buy a good stylus for the Realistic/Shure rather than a cheap Amazon replacement.
And on that last point, I’ve changed my advice somewhat after reading these comments and checking the cartridge lineage. Yesterday, the $25-ish Amazon stylus seemed like a sensible replacement. I would no longer buy that as your long-term stylus. Not because it necessarily won't work, but because now we know the cartridge body itself is good enough to justify something better. If you're only playing $1 records while experimenting, keep the existing stylus for the moment. If you decide, “Yes, I like this and I'm going to build a record collection,” then a quality JICO becomes much easier to justify.

There’s also a nice middle position between a $25 no-name needle and an expensive top-of-the-line stylus. We don't have to jump straight to the most expensive JICO Malden linked. We can work out exactly which stylus fits your particular R1000E, what each tip profile buys you, and which price point makes sense for this Rotel. That’s where I think we should go next.

Overall, though? The forum comments make me more positive about your $25 purchase. The emerging picture is not “cheap turntable that happens to run.” It’s a respectable CEC-built vintage deck with a worthwhile vintage Shure-family cartridge, apparently recently serviced, running quietly and at very nearly correct speed. The big remaining unknown is not the motor or even the belt. It’s how good that yellow aftermarket stylus actually is.
 
You have no records though the intention is to buy some cheap ones from a charity shop.You are also not fully up to speed with the setting up of this T/T.Those are the details at the moment.
From my experience cheap records from a thrift are battered,dirty and often defective,you might (sometimes do) get lucky but bear this in mind also many other hands might have thumbed through the piles leaving only the cast offs.I was in your position I would take some time getting the T/T right and buying a cheaper option of stylus than a Jico.I would learn to grade by eye and how to clean used records.
The Jico stylus suggested are the best and most expensive after market available.Its false economy to buy one at the moment,I would take that plunge further down the line.
As others have said you havent bought a piece of cheap junk,some people claim a T/T under a price point of a few grand is only good enough for a door stop,thats their bag.
 
Ice White said:
You have no records though the intention is to buy some cheap ones from a charity shop.You are also not fully up to speed with the setting up of this T/T.Those are the details at the moment.
From my experience cheap records from a thrift are battered,dirty and often defective,you might (sometimes do) get lucky but bear this in mind also many other hands might have thumbed through the piles leaving only the cast offs.I was in your position I would take some time getting the T/T right and buying a cheaper option of stylus than a Jico.I would learn to grade by eye and how to clean used records.
The Jico stylus suggested are the best and most expensive after market available.Its false economy to buy one at the moment,I would take that plunge further down the line.
As others have said you havent bought a piece of cheap junk,some people claim a T/T under a price point of a few grand is only good enough for a door stop,thats their bag.
Click to expand...
I agree, Ice. My most valuable amplifier sits like a paperweight while the one I enjoy most I picked up for $70 a few years back. Price doesn't necessarily correlate with quality or enjoyment. I'm glad I spent generously on a nice DAC, though that technology is constantly surpassed. With vintage stuff, one finds unexpected bargains and that's part of the fun. This $25 turntable is a case in point. Now I get to explore.
 
That's a very handsome table, and for $25 you did great. I agree with the suggestion to get a stylus upgrade for your Realistic/Shure cartridge. I'm running a Realistic branded Shure cart on my main table (Sony PS-X70) and to my ears it sounds great; in my limited experience vintage Shure carts tend to sound a little warmer than Audio-Technica cartridges, and with my current setup it's what I prefer.

Enjoy!
 
Roypercy said:
That's a very handsome table, and for $25 you did great. I agree with the suggestion to get a stylus upgrade for your Realistic/Shure cartridge. I'm running a Realistic branded Shure cart on my main table (Sony PS-X70) and to my ears it sounds great; in my limited experience vintage Shure carts tend to sound a little warmer than Audio-Technica cartridges, and with my current setup it's what I prefer.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...
Thanks Roy. You and I share a common (yet not-so-common) first name.
 
If this table hasn’t been properly lubricated, motor and platter then speed results may be worse than after this work is done making the tables numbers even better. If you are not sensitive, and almost no one is, to the slight speed difference between 33.33333… and your 33.29 or whatever, just enjoy. People would hear the speed difference in side by side comparison but it might not bother the masses but cause those with perfect pitch to think the table sounds bad.

You will be fully qualified to set up this table just using the owners manual for cartridge position, tracking force and anti skate setting. Lubrication is more a maintenance thing and not usually discussed in the owners manual except for a few turntables.

You have a $130 MSRP table from 1978 which should sound very good with a proper cartridge/stylus on it. As far as better sound than streaming, everyone that has heard a CD vs record here has preferred the sound of the record. The CD or streaming high quality is technologically better. Wider frequency range and wider dynamic range are possible, if used and of course, you get a cleaner sound without the noise of the nail in the groove, pops and clicks. But the record was, according to the listeners in the comparisons I have done, a fuller sound with depth vs the flat picture of sound from digital. Records are a more musical and engaging sound in my system.

If you want to grab a sharp nail for your table, assuming you have a well worn nail on it now, you may hear differences due to wear just by getting a low or mid-priced stylus (nail, just easier to type). Then, not having emptied your wallet, we are here to help you get a new different cartridge so you can hear the difference by brand, with a new headshell since you now know how to change cartridges on headshells, headshells on the turntable and set up the turntable properly for the second headshell/cartridge you get. This 2nd will be a nice step up from a lower nail for you current cartridge and might be just a different sound from your current cartridge with a new high performance nail on it. Your choice as how to proceed and we’ll be here helping to spend your money.

Since the cartridge is very important to sound as are the speakers, this is where you can make brand choices to help tune your system to the sound you like. Up to about $300 there are a number of brands of cartridges available that sound very nice and differently so enjoying your table while you research this topic might be a nice way to dive back into records.
 
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Parallax982 said:
Thank you. I must admit I'm confused about which cartridge and stylus I should use. Are you suggesting replacing the entire cartridge?
Click to expand...

Not really. You can probably find a replacement stylus for that Cartridge. It needn't be anything special. A Standard Elliptical stylus will work just fine. Later, if or when you get comfortable playing LP's you can look into other alternatives .

I have a Nagoaka MP11 Cartridge on an old Pioneer table very much like yours with the same arm. And despite being nearly 50 years old, It won't even shut off anymore LOL, and it really sings with the Nagoaka. The replacement today is the MP110. It might be $150 in US funds.
 
Parallax982 said:
Do you mean this one?


More than I paid for the turntable but a very reasonably priced stylus just the same.
Click to expand...
No - I was recommending the whole cartridge/stylus combo VM95C
If you have confirmed that you have a Realistic R1000E, you are welcome to try the existing stylus and/or replace it.
I have used a $21 4760-DE and $49 Pfanstiehl 4760-DHE with modest results.
 
Parallax982 said:
That I don't know. I can ask. The WOW may have been more about the limitations of my phone and how to use the app. I had the phone flat on its back, as close to the spindle as possible, but not over it.
Click to expand...
Why are you even checking the wow & flutter? Is there something wrong with the sound?
 
Blue Shadow said:
If this table hasn’t been properly lubricated, motor and platter then speed results may be worse than after this work is done making the tables numbers even better. If you are not sensitive, and almost no one is, to the slight speed difference between 33.33333… and your 33.29 or what ever just enjoy. People would here the speed difference in side by side comparison but it might not bother the masses but cause those with perfect pitch to think the table sounds bad.

You will be fully qualified to set up this table just using the owners manual for cartridge position, tracking force and anti skate setting. Lubrication is more a maintenance thing and not usually discussed in the owners manual except for a few turntables.

You have a $130 MSRP table from 1978 which should sound very good with a proper cartridge/stylus on it. As far as better sound than streaming, everyone that has heard a CD vs record here has preferred the sound of the record. The CD or streaming high quality is technologically better. Wider frequency range and wider dynamic range are possible, if used and of course, you get a cleaner sound without the noise of the nail in the groove, pops and clicks. But the record was, according to the listeners in the comparisons I have done, a fuller sound with depth vs the flat picture of sound from digital. Records are a more musical and engaging sound in my system.

If you want to grab a sharp nail for your table, assuming you have a well worn nail on it now, you may hear differences due to wear just by getting a low or mid-priced stylus (nail, just easier to type). Then, not having emptied your wallet, we are here to help you get a new different cartridge so you can hear the difference by brand, with a new headshell since you now know how to change cartridges on headshells, headshells on the turntable and set up the turntable properly for the second headshell/cartridge you get. This 2nd will be a nice step up from a lower nail for you current cartridge and might be just a different sound from your current cartridge with a new high performance nail on it. Your choice as how to proceed and we’ll be here helping to spend your money.

Since the cartridge is very important to sound as are the speakers, this is where you can make brand choices to help tune your system to the sound you like. Up to about $300 there are a number of brands of cartridges available that sound very nice and differently so enjoying your table while you research this topic might be a nice way to dive back into records.
Click to expand...
Thanks man.
 
charles 1973 said:
Not really. You can probably find a replacement stylus for that Cartridge. It needn't be anything special. A Standard Elliptical stylus will work just fine. Later, if or when you get comfortable playing LP's you can look into other alternatives .

I have a Nagoaka MP11 Cartridge on an old Pioneer table very much like yours with the same arm. And despite being nearly 50 years old, It won't even shut off anymore LOL, and it really sings with the Nagoaka. The replacement today is the MP110. It might be $150 in US funds.
Click to expand...
Thanks Charles.
 
mrwood200 said:
No - I was recommending the whole cartridge/stylus combo VM95C
If you have confirmed that you have a Realistic R1000E, you are welcome to try the existing stylus and/or replace it.
I have used a $21 4760-DE and $49 Pfanstiehl 4760-DHE with modest results.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Picked up a few discs at the Goodwill today. When the stylus brush arrives, I'll clean it off and see how things sound. The records were a dollar a piece so no big deal.
 
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