Tell Me About this Turntable

[Parallax982]

I use a pocket microscope to view before and after cleaning my records. A record before cleaning, when viewed with naked eye, might look super clean. Look at the same record with a pocket microscope and you will probably see hundreds or thousands of tiny white specks of dust/dirt, both on the lands and in the grooves. After a thorough cleaning the number of specks seen should be zero...that is the goal.

It's a whole new world for me.

 

[Parallax982]

Same anti-skate as the Realistic Lab 300.
Here is mine with a Realistic R1000E cartridge and a low hour Shure Hi Track nude elliptical stylus.

Beautiful music. With youtube compression, it's impossible to hear what you're hearing.

 

[krautmaster]

What's AS and VTF?

AS is "Anti-Skate", an adjustment to try to keep the tone arm from swinging rapidly toward the center of the record. Set this to ZERO before setting the VTF "Vertical Tracking Force"- the amount of pressure on the stylus tip, adjusted by rotating the counterweight inward (increases VTF) or rearward (decreases VTF). It is preferable to use a small scale like the one I link to below, and 2 grams is a good starting place for most cartridges. After you set the VTF to 2 grams, add in 1 or 2 on the anti-skate

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZCGX6YC?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback&th=1

 

[chaz]

AS = Anti-Skate
VTF = Vertical Tracking Force.

 

[Parallax982]

AS is "Anti-Skate", an adjustment to try to keep the tone arm from swinging rapidly toward the center of the record. Set this to ZERO before setting the VTF "Vertical Tracking Force"- the amount of pressure on the stylus tip, adjusted by rotating the counterweight inward (increases VTF) or rearward (decreases VTF). It is preferable to use a small scale like the one I link to below, and 2 grams is a good starting place for most cartridges. After you set the VTF to 2 grams, add in 1 or 2 on the anti-skate

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZCGX6YC?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback&th=1

Thanks. There's no adjustment for the anti-skate on my table (or, rather, it auto-adjusts). Thus, the bar with the weight.

 

[Parallax982]

Good news, guys. Picked up a couple of records and the turntable sounds way better. Tomorrow I'll get the brush and cleaner, and work on the other records. See if I can get them to all sound better and then really listen carefully to see what this setup can do.

I'd keep at it today but it's time for the Seahawks' preseason game.

 

[chaz]

Sounds like you're well on your way to a vinyl filled future, my condolences

 

[Parallax982]

Sounds like you're well on your way to a vinyl filled future, my condolences

 

[Fishead]

If you like what you're hearing now, it typically gets better the more you know about how to get the most out of your system! Glad you're having such a good time. I particularly enjoyed hearing that you were out and about, talking with others about music in general and especially about records. There's a certain bond I feel with others when I'm doing that which I can only attribute to my love of and fascination with records and that being reciprocated.....carry on, amigos!

 

[Parallax982]

If you like what you're hearing now, it typically gets better the more you know about how to get the most out of your system! Glad you're having such a good time. I particularly enjoyed hearing that you were out and about, talking with others about music in general and especially about records. There's a certain bond I feel with others when I'm doing that which I can only attribute to my love of and fascination with records and that being reciprocated.....carry on, amigos!

Thanks. I look forward to the stuff showing up that will allow me to clean my records so I can see if I can get them to sound decent. Now I'm thinking the stylus may be alright.

 

[analogadict]

Thanks. There's no adjustment for the anti-skate on my table (or, rather, it auto-adjusts). Thus, the bar with the weight.

The weight slides to and fro to increase or reduce the anti-scate force.

Regards

 

[chaz]

Now I'm thinking the stylus may be alright.

Be careful there.

As a general rule, unless I have proof, or some other way to verify the age of a second hand stylus on a used turntable, I always replace them.

Better safe than sorry here.

With an unknown (to me) stylus it is very difficult to tell, by hearing alone, if it is worn to point of replacement.

 

[Fishead]

The weight slides to and fro to increase or reduce the anti-scate force.

Regards

That's what I was thinking, and there should be some kind of marking on it somewhere to indicate the amount of AS being applied. Again, this is where a look at the owner's manual would perhaps be revealing....... @Parallax982, have you looked at the manual for more information about the setting of AS with your table?

Be careful there.

As a general rule, unless I have proof, or some other way to verify the age of a second hand stylus on a used turntable, I always replace them.

Better safe than sorry here.

With an unknown (to me) stylus it is very difficult to tell, by hearing alone, if it is worn to point of replacement.

This is good advice by @chaz......however, while you are still toying with thrift store finds that are generally not very "clean" records and often pretty scratched up, using your present stylus is, I believe, OK for just testing out your system for general functionality. However, as you become more serious about it and start to buy more records, and presumably costlier ones, it will become more sensible to know exactly what kind of "nail" you're dragging through the grooves of such acquisitions.

A bad stylus, meaning worn and likely damaging the grooves, can cause additional woes that will not be reversible, much as the scratches cannot be removed. This is called groove damage and is readily discernible once you know what you are listening for. It will sound as though there is a constant signal present, much like wind blowing in the background, that you might not even pick up at first but, once you are aware of it it's hard to ignore. It will be most present during quiet passages in the music or on the unmodulated sections of the grooves like the lead-in grooves at the beginning of the record, in between tracks, and in the runout grooves at the end of the side before your tonearm picks up. When this is not present, listeners often refer to an "inky black" background as a much-desired condition because the noise level has been reduced to next to nothing (there will always be some as that is the nature of a stylus being dragged through a groove in the vinyl).

The other thing that is sometimes done is to have the stylus evaluated by someone who has not only the equipment, but the skills necessary to identify whether a stylus is still good or not. In your case, this might involve sending it to such a person for inspection. You can see how just replacing it will likely be a better option given the costs involved, especially for a cartridge/stylus like you have at its price point (pretty low). Now, should you have received this table with a higher cost cartridge, then it may very well be worth the price to have someone evaluate it. It's always good to know just exactly what you have where styli are concerned when you start adding pricier records to your collection. Styli do wear out, and once you get to a certain point of wear you will then start to damage the grooves of your records.....just a few words of caution in support of what @chaz is saying.

 

[curtisw99]

I'm totally new to turntables (unless you include my experience as a teen in the 1970s when I had a 10 watt Kenwood receiver with a pair of Realistic speakers and a cheap turntable. For the last several years, I've been getting deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole of vintage audio gear. At this point, I have really nice stuff. A fully restored Marantz 2270 with engraved faceplate, a fully restored Marantz 2230 with engraved faceplate, two fully restored Fisher tube amps (a 400 and an 800C), two more unrestored (another 400 and an 800B), a Lowrey tube amp converted to stereo hifi (I call it my FrankenLowrey), a DS-1 single ended tube amp, Klipshorn speakers, Coral BX300 speakers, ElectroVoice EV4 speakers plus streamers and good quality DACs.

The thing I've steered clear of is turntables. Just one more rabbit hole and a particularly finicky one to boot. But someone's been advertising a Rotel RP1100 which appeared to be in good shape except the owner said the motor was dead for $50. I just watched. Today he dropped the price to $25 so I picked it up. Looked perfect -- like new. So I asked the guy for the history. He bought it from a hifi store a few years ago. It worked great until recently. He brought it in to have it serviced. New belt, new parts, he spent $300 on it, but the motor wasn't working. The shop was looking for a replacement motor and then his wife bought him a new Marantz turntable. He told me he liked the sound of the Rotel better but it's not a huge difference so he decided to keep the new one.

I took it home expecting to have to troubleshoot and probably replace the motor but when I plugged it in, the damn thing worked. It tracks quite well. My phone measured it at 33.29 with a WOW of .34. On the 45 setting, it showed 44.87. Don't remember the WOW. Probably similar. The stylus, as best I can tell, looks good. I don't have a microscope. I'll buy a cheap $1 record at the thrift store tomorrow and give it a listen.

What can you fellas tell me about this turntable. I'm going to hook it up to the Fisher 400 with the Klipschorns. Will I get better sound than streaming with Qobuz?View attachment 3822758View attachment 3822759View attachment 3822760View attachment 3822761View attachment 3822763

A new belt and a spindle bearing clean and lube will bring the WOW down. A motor clean and lube will bring it down further

 

[Parallax982]

Be careful there.

As a general rule, unless I have proof, or some other way to verify the age of a second hand stylus on a used turntable, I always replace them.

Better safe than sorry here.

With an unknown (to me) stylus it is very difficult to tell, by hearing alone, if it is worn to point of replacement.

What are your concerns if it sounds good? That it might harm your records?

 

[chaz]

Yes. A worn stylus can do irrepairable damage to the grove and you will not know untill it is too late. A common sign that a record has been played too often with a worn stylus is excessive sibilance ( that harsh hissing sound you hear on a lot of 'charity shop' records)
I would assert that most of the damage done to records in 'the good 'ol days' was from folks not changing the stylus often enough.
If you don't know how used you used stylus is- and you care about the records you are playing ( which is not always the case - as in your situation for example, where discs were purchased to test the player) then you should change it.

 

[Parallax982]

Yes. A worn stylus can do irrepairable damage to the grove and you will not know untill it is too late. A common sign that a record has been played too often with a worn stylus is excessive sibilance ( that harsh hissing sound you hear on a lot of 'charity shop' records)
I would assert that most of the damage done to records in 'the good 'ol days' was from folks not changing the stylus often enough.
If you don't know how used you used stylus is- and you care about the records you are playing ( which is not always the case - as in your situation for example, where discs were purchased to test the player) then you should change it.

Thanks Chaz for explaining it so clearly. This is very helpful.

 

[lini]

I think you're right; as the radius of the grooves become smaller the closer it gets to the spindle, the greater the centrifugal force.

Sorry, but you'd better avoid the terms centripetal force and centrifugal force in the context of skating and anti-skating - 'cause the latter have nothing to do with the former.

(...) Still getting scratchiness on all of the used records I picked up yesterday. (...)

Mind you, that noisy playback can also be caused by a worn needle. Because the more the tip wears, the lower it will ride in the groove - and sooner or later there won't be sufficient clearance between the very tip of the tip and the dirt at groove bottom and finally even the groove bottom itself anymore.


Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Mr Boochie]

Sorry, but you'd better avoid the terms centripetal force and centrifugal force in the context of skating and anti-skating - 'cause the latter have nothing to do with the former.

Manfred / lini

Yes.

Skating force "causes and fixes" seem to be one main source of confusion and furious debates on the interweb.

 

[Ed240]

That is very similar. Not identical but clearly both machines are from the same family.

CEC made the LAB-300, which is the best turntable Radio Shack ever sold. It's the only Realistic turntable made by CEC.