My finger feels the same.
-
Feeling lucky? Check out the AK 24th Anniversary Giveaway thread and join in the fun!
Tension at the Klipsch.com forums
- Thread starter soundbound
- Start date
- Status
Gigantic
A big, big love
It cost me less than $150 to restore my '71 H700 Heresies to H1 spec. I figure it will cost me around $650, perhaps less, to build a pair of Super Heresy speakers, with the biggest single cost being the pair of sMAHLs. I'm a master carpenter and cabinet maker, though and have not only the skills, but a full, industrial grade workshop and paint booth at my disposal. If I sell my H700's, which I very well may, I'll be well in the black.
The more I think about it, the more this attitude change is leaving a bad taste in my mouth and I'm starting to think that I want nothing to do with the brand at all, whatsoever.
dmar
Well-Known Member
Also look into La Scala base bins as a project. 5/4 is what should be used.
I have a pair of old KSM Monitors that I'm contemplating making 2-way speakers out of (Crites Speaker style D). K-43-K woofers with K-58-K drivers. I was thinking about asking Crites to make crossovers for me. Maybe making the cabinets shorter and deeper than my Cornwall's. Not sure why Klipsch has a stick up their butts about our hobby?!!
Due to the longevity of the brand and it's popularity, it is unique in the fact that you can find replacement parts to fix and upgrade just about all of their vintage products. They are like the Chevy of audio. I've been down the Klipsch restoration Rabbit Hole more than a few times and, while a fun and sometimes expensive endeavor, I never did get the "wow factor" when compared to the stock speakers. As far as the new owners, I think they should embrace the old fans as it's keeping the Klipsch name out there and in good stead.
BilboBaggins
Addicted Member
Think of it this way. A lot of those vintage Klipsch fans would not be Klipsch fans at all if they had been unable to modify their speakers with the support available. People will move away from them, but it won't matter to the big corporation... until it does, and then it will be too late.
Gigantic
A big, big love
I spent many years working in the motorcycle industry; the audio industry, Klipsch in particular, as far as I can tell, has a similar vibe, which makes sense, as they’re both enthusiast driven sectors. unlike ordinary consumer goods, enthusiast industries are kept aloft by users who form strong identifications with their favored brands, with powerful loyalty, deeper technical knowledge and an interest in products, their functions and repair that eclipses that of mere casual consumers. These people often have encyclopedic knowledge of products, variations and the stories and lore of their design and designers; they attend industry and brand specific rallies and conventions and they broadcast their affiliation and identification to the wider world at large. They often modify the products they’ve owned, personalizing them and frequently, making them better, bigger, louder or faster than the creator intended. While a closed minded designer, ceo or corporate board may blanch at what may happen to their products after they leave the factory and may wish to exert control after the fact via rigid warranty restrictions, service schedules or what have you, these enthusiasts and their modifications frequently capture the imagination of the wider public, elevating the brand beyond its extant capitalization.
A brand disregards its enthusiasts at its own peril.
Take Harley Davidson: for generations, the brand has been synonymous with the Chopper, a heavily modified form that captured the public’s imagination in films like Dennis Hopper’s Easy Rider and an image that the Motor Company has enthusiastically embraced. It wasn’t always the case. In the 60’s and 70’s, they wanted nothing to do with that image. That rejection, along with some colossally bad business decisions, nearly sank the company, but they were bought by their employees and with the support of their enthusiast base, endured to the point where they’re one of the most popular and identifiable brands of all time. BMW’s motorcycle division faced similar straits in the early 90’s and I understand that the same thing nearly happened to Klipsch, too. It would seem the Audio Voxx, Klipsch’s parent company, neither understands enthusiasts, nor gives a rats ass about them. They’d rather sell foreign made, consumer grade speakers to lawyers and doctors who are more concerned with the label than the performance and they regard every person who modifies a legacy product to convert it to modern listening standards as tarnishing the brand or discouraging sales of their latest $1200 pile of wood fiber and plastic. They begrudgingly maintain the heritage line, but price it well out of reach of the hoi polloi, if only to encourage more sales of consumer grade products. They don’t like us and want us to go away. Not surprisingly, the most avid and experienced modders on the bbs have decamped to DIY Audio or other places in the intertubes. In my opinion, Klipsch squandering opportunities that they don’t realize they have.
A brand disregards its enthusiasts at its own peril.
Take Harley Davidson: for generations, the brand has been synonymous with the Chopper, a heavily modified form that captured the public’s imagination in films like Dennis Hopper’s Easy Rider and an image that the Motor Company has enthusiastically embraced. It wasn’t always the case. In the 60’s and 70’s, they wanted nothing to do with that image. That rejection, along with some colossally bad business decisions, nearly sank the company, but they were bought by their employees and with the support of their enthusiast base, endured to the point where they’re one of the most popular and identifiable brands of all time. BMW’s motorcycle division faced similar straits in the early 90’s and I understand that the same thing nearly happened to Klipsch, too. It would seem the Audio Voxx, Klipsch’s parent company, neither understands enthusiasts, nor gives a rats ass about them. They’d rather sell foreign made, consumer grade speakers to lawyers and doctors who are more concerned with the label than the performance and they regard every person who modifies a legacy product to convert it to modern listening standards as tarnishing the brand or discouraging sales of their latest $1200 pile of wood fiber and plastic. They begrudgingly maintain the heritage line, but price it well out of reach of the hoi polloi, if only to encourage more sales of consumer grade products. They don’t like us and want us to go away. Not surprisingly, the most avid and experienced modders on the bbs have decamped to DIY Audio or other places in the intertubes. In my opinion, Klipsch squandering opportunities that they don’t realize they have.
grindstone
Well-Known Member
I get both sides of it. It's just going to be a while to see how many choose which other forum(s) to participate in. In the meantime, I saved the XO thread in the wayback today...
Im not concerned. I was banned from the forum about a year ago for not being nice to Traci Cannon after he dogged out my speaker build. I have enough spare parts to do whatever I need. Including a pair of metal K400 horns for yet another Cornscala pair.
soundbound
Well-Known Member
That thread highlighted Klipsch’s attitude toward how they feel about some of their forum members who are also some of their biggest supporters, fans, and customers and how they feel about some of their threads, posts, and mostly all of the DIY of their speakers, especially one of the post Trey posted which revealed a lot of how he and Klipsch feels about those matters and it was a lot of not good. If most talked about or to their customers like that, they’d most likely be quickly out of business, but it’s apparent Klipsch is big enough to not worry about loosing some, so be it.
I smell the end of the Heritage line altogether. It just doesn't fit the global marketing playbook.
It's been a few years, but I found the Klipsch forum to be fairly welcoming when I was modifying a set of KLF's.
But looks like it's changed\changing and it's OK with me, I find all the help\info I need right here at AK.
I also actively bailed from the Carver forum (I asked for my account to be deleted and my posts removed) due to the prominent members and mods posting political and racial diatribes. I wanted no part of that.
So ya, not every forum matches our personal path and so we just need to find places where we're comfortable, and that's AK for me.
But looks like it's changed\changing and it's OK with me, I find all the help\info I need right here at AK.
I also actively bailed from the Carver forum (I asked for my account to be deleted and my posts removed) due to the prominent members and mods posting political and racial diatribes. I wanted no part of that.
So ya, not every forum matches our personal path and so we just need to find places where we're comfortable, and that's AK for me.
Bean counters have destroyed many companies. While not audio, Macaroni Grill was unbelievable 25 years ago. Carrabbas is now headed that way.
I know there’s an audio analogy other than Klipsch, but they are the most noticeable audio company.
I got a PM last night from Roy which I wont paste here regarding all that thread and it is sad. I wonder what kind of pressure is being brought to bear on him by corporate idiots. He said he was disappointed in me and there I sit thinking that we posters have not changed. Mods tricks builds and tweaks go back on that forum for a long time so the only thing that is changing is forum management. We will never know exactly what is going on and who is primarily responsible but I signed up here as a direct result of that nonsense. I can see the day where I won't be there much or at all.
Gigantic
A big, big love
I would have flipped my Heresy H700’s if not for Claude’s Baby Cornwall/ Super Heresy threads. I might still do that, as it’s inspired me to build another pair, seeing as I now have some spares leftover from the project. Depending on whether my partner will tolerate another pair of speakers in the living room, I may end up putting the H700’s back to stock, flip them and keep the home grown Supers. If I do that, they’ll basically be free.
Last edited:
Gigantic
A big, big love
they way Claude has talked up the sMAHL tweeters, I don’t think I’ll be disappointed in you. I really don’t understand why they’re so upset about people modifying speakers that are deeply flawed and making them more useful. When I restored them to stock, my H700s sounded pretty decent, but they were utterly lacking and frankly, disappointing given the hype that follows them and the brand. The woofer and port mods alone transformed them to the point that I was really excited about them and until the purge, the Klipsch brand, largely on the basis of the help I received on the forum. After the purge? I feel like saying “f@ck them and their overpriced junk.” I’ll recommend Cerwin Vega before I recommend another Klipsch product and I’m not about to advocate CV, unless I really hate that persons neighbor...
Oh, they screwed the pooch with this one. Corporate, INDEED.
I'm not alone here and not special, but I will say that I have been - in one form or another - involved with that forum for over 20 years, point of fact that 80% of my audio life and solutions were a direct result of that forum. I came to that place a numbskull, and still might be half a numbskull, but I have learned a BUNCH about the specifics of MY Klipsch cabs and what worked and what did not work in terms of "squeezing the most" out of them over the years.
One constant factor was that for over 15 of those years I traveled that road with the SAME FOUR PAIRS of speakers in the same rooms with the same batch of gears. So there aren't a bunch of variables all working at once as would be the case with some, who had this and had that, and upgraded this and upgraded that. Once I found out what cabs I could fit in here, I set about doing what I could to make those cabs the absolute best they could be, while NOT altering so much of it that it becomes "something else". I LOVE the essential concept of the Cornwall in particular, which I think was the greatest floor standing loudspeaker ever created for general use in proper sized rooms, especially in the 1970's and 1980's, where those were really special in the marketplace. I knew that was a "lifer" type of speaker, as well as their brethren.
I did a search (back when it was Lycos and Yahoo and Excite for search engines) and found that thing - the Klipsch Forum. Within just a few years of that discovery, I now had multiples of Heritage Klipsch in the house, landing on three pairs of Cornwalls (theater) and a pair of Belles (2CH) and a host of different gears to play them on. Custom amp solutions (NOSValves and JuicyMusic) because THEY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE new amps ideal for driving these. People were buying MC30s and MC240s and Dynacos to feed them, this back when MC30s were still under $1500 a pair mint (and oft 500 each) and NONE of those new amp companies nor the NEW product you really would want was out there. Not like it is now.
When I landed upon that forum, Klipsch was building ONLY the KHorn out of the heritage line IIRC (maybe the Heresys but I thought that had a break too?) But CERTAINLY no Cornwalls, LaScala, Chorus, Forte.....NONE of that stuff. It was Epic and Synergy etc etc etc.....they sold KHorns but pretty much only if ordered through VERY select outlets - like you could see those in VERY few places......
There WAS NO "customer service" really associated with that old Heritage stuff, in so far as what ended up being on the "demand side" from knuckleheads like me finding our way to that place and buying up and refurbing Heritage cabs, along with all manner of other experiments. Klipsch of course was selling all kinds of then RF and other commercially common successful stuff, intermingling with us crazies who were really showing people what the idea of "no limits" was all about. It is in that period where us knuckleheads were providing that free "advert" for the ENTIRE IDEA of producing Heritage again. Every time I see that Heritage logo page I can't help but think how much "we built that".
BECAUSE, while Klipsch was selling RF and similar to Best Buy, and the general public at large, who didn't know what a KHorn or a Cornwall even or ever was, who thought that Klipsch was just another "Best Buy"/consumer level brand.......we changed that. The whole da---- world had gone "Bose"-O over "smaller is better", and in 1989, when Fred Klipsch bought the company they were selling 22Mil in product annual and the Heritage stuff was mostly not produced while the company tried to find out how to survive. They did that by going where the market was, and doing a lot of things people thought were "non-Klipsch" in that process. But they survived.
And in that time, when they "retooled" what Klipsch was to be, and where survivability WAS in seemingly in question, the Klipsch Heritage Army on that forum brought legitimacy to what Klipsch was doing everywhere else. When the newer generations didn't know that Klipsch really DID have a GREAT history through GREAT loudspeakers, we told them - and showed them - just how good they were. Cornwalls were so dead I bought three pairs for under 1700 back then, when you could buy MC30 for $500 each - that was the real "market" they were numerous and the "secret" wasn't "out yet" aside from "those look old". Hahahahaha...... So even though they didn't have a place to sell them in the '00s, we showed them what a Klipschorn was (and that they still sold them/could order them and how) as well as showing the audio enthusiast of new that we REALLY WERE SERIOUS. And that "swinging for the fences" made people feel that the RF and other experiences were special too - and point of fact they absolutely are, It gave legitimacy to the Klipsch Project as a whole.
Then they actually start building the Heritage line again. Because after us knuckleheads pretty much bought up the entirety of the good supply of used Heritage (and there was a LOT of it out there, cuz they built a BUNCH of it in the '60's and '70's in particular) there was actually a growing market for new Heritage. AND because us knuckleheads rebuilt/refurbed those old cabs and showed people they were "good for life" that justified the asking prices of the new Heritage product, which was not cheap. But we showed VALUE to the onlooker watching us knuckleheads on the forum rocking the nation on these Klipsch of all ages and sizes.
The other point that gets lost was the "open nature" of that forum, where the various versions of "truths" are laid bare for all to see, and for us to evaluate, and even attempt to duplicate or prove to ourselves. The proof was in the LISTENING, where we would send each other networks, go to others houses for sound offs, and really put the talk to the sound room. So I was allowed to make what I could of ALL of the opinions posted, with ALL of what people thought of builds, formulae, gears, etc. and actually LISTEN to that stuff. And that's where the wheat starts to separate from the chaff because now it's no longer theoretical. We dared ask questions about just how to tear into a McIntosh MC30 because at that time it was one of the acknowledged best pieces available to drive those speakers, at a time when new options weren't really plentiful yet. We would listen to four/five different cap sets in the same set of amps on the same set of speakers because we were geeky knuckleheads but moreover wanted to make those amps the BEST they could be. And if that provided better service to a Klipsch speaker, that made it topical. And we succeeded, rather wildly. As well as assuring budding tube amp outfits that there really WAS a future in tube gear.
That "we will test anything you throw at us" ethos - we will try anything, and in front of the lurking public - brought Klipsch to where it is today,. selling Heritage in DEALERS in places they haven't in years. How viable that is remains to be seen but appears to be good on some basis and locations. But it was all based on that "open truth(s)" sort of idea - that we the CUSTOMER will lay all this threadbare, and make both OUR old speakers as well as Klipsch in the current BETTER because NONE of us have anything to hide.
I know from most who do this biz of "mods" and similar that the OVERWHELMING majority of onlookers and potential customers would never do what we knuckleheads did to our speakers and systems. I'll never forget telling the JBL rep in Cali hw I was using two 4638 cabinets (mind you these are professional theater dual 15" cabs retailing for $1500 each in year 2000 dollars and I'm buying them on the advice of Klipsch Knuckleheads who are using them for LFE on a home theater kit with their LaScalas/Cornwalls.etc.....) - sold to us from the Northridge earthquake sale for $400 for TWO (tax and shipping only because insurance had already paid off the warehouse), so my woofers not only survived an earthquake (they were in fact as new) but are STILL the beasts of my HT 18 years later. They thought we were certifiable. Maybe so, but we do good ads
But the OTHER 99% of people don't want Dean's networks, my JBLs, the horns Dnyamatted, the mids converted to A55Gs - they just want speaker they can order, place and enjoy. I don't think that we are ANY threat to Klipsch AT ALL, in fact, if they just kept that talk in that one section I think the issue is fixed. Crites sold new nets to those people because Klipsch couldn't or wouldn't. Guess what - they are FINALLY doing it now......
I think this is a totally fear based idea that Klipsch is losing sales because of mods, and in fact SUPPORTS THE BRAND by keeping that product viable in the marketplace. It also demonstrates by allowing that "talk" that Klipsch really isn't afraid of TRUTHS because Klipsch is more than capable of responding to the market and in fact dare I say that the Klipsch current product has a little bit of us in it, because it has the company pressing to do better. This is good for ALL of us.
MOST will want to buy a new set of Cornwall IV after seeing MY Cornwall I system modified with SMAHKL/A55G/Crites 1526/DeanG/Multi RTX/Double Dynamatted because it's EASIER to order your cabs to the finish you want and have the BEST of Klipsch in the current. But they fear us, and for no good reason. I get true "competitors" like people selling whole speakers getting grief. If I got Crites Cornscalawalls I can see not being allowed to yap about them. But I got Klipsch Cornwalls with all drop in replacement parts with original Klipsch schematic and geometry then I guess that's a bridge too far?
I have this to be thankful for, after those long 20 years, is that I DO have my "audio dream system" to the extent that I envisioned it ever coming to pass. I LONG had decided the Cornwalls and Belles would stay as cabs and that when the best of a restoration solution came available and to a point I could pay for it, I did exactly that - completely re-drivering and networking the cabs as to have them be here and good for another 30+ years and being the best they could be. I succeeded beyond my wildest dreams. That in large part to the fact that we had arrived at those solutions through years of testing and evaluating various approaches, a number of them measured, all of them sonically evaluated extensively to get to where I got to. Others did the work, I took and proved out the advice. And I was GREATLY rewarded for that.
Klipsch has EVERY RIGHT to do what they are doing . It is their sandbox. But that said, I think it's a mistake, at least in the way it seems to be playing out. But that's nothing new actually - that forum has been taking on the aroma of "State TV" for YEARS, with the "all amps sound the same", "only Klipsch authorized network parts are acceptable" (when they hadn't offered that for YEARS and only JUST NOW do they have someone who can actually build one of those to how it needs to look and work) and "no mods". I don't have issue with whole sale speaker builders not hawking stuff on forum and am OK with limiting that activity in terms of advert and sales generally. But in an arena where "Klipsch replacement parts" on old stuff has been an oxymoron over the years (at least to an effective customer service/able to deliver basis) as well as just trying to now pretty much pretend that doesn't exist, as they would like to sell you new speakers more generally, it's a bad look from a company that built their greatest successes on having not much to hide. PWK even printed that stuff in those DFH papers. He TOLD people with no hiding what was up. That has TREMENDOUS credibility. As I always have said, the truth is plain to hear and spec sheets only listenable by shuffling them.
Again, 95% of new people will buy new Cornwalls and be thrilled with them before they buy Cornwall Is and do what I did. Probably more like 99%. Sure, old Corn I owners will do my way SOME, but many will sell and get new, or just do a basic upgrade like a Crites network (which Klipsch failed to be able to provide). Even after I got the parts it took MONTHS to do that job right. People LIKE new and after doing all the work on mine they aren't entirely wrong, LOL. I truly don't get what they are afraid of. For every one of us, there's a bunch more buying new, and oft because WE OWNERS gave that legitimacy to the brand......and we still do, at least in terms of "end product". But if they think they can "control the conversation" in TODAY'S world, they really have something amiss with the water supply in Arkansas and Indy. It's a bad look, when that "legitimacy " is everything. They are charging what....7K for Corns now, they can put good parts and do good with that....with the best of modern engineering (Roy IS good at this), so what's the problem? I spent 7K across six speakers for my upgrades but that was still already owning the cabs too. So they think that someone will buy three pairs of Cornwalls and do what I did vs just calling a dealer and hammering out a price?? In the real world it's rare, but they fact that we do on 50 year old speakers just makes Klipsch that much MORE legit and NOT less. Klipsch's designs are so good we just dropped in new properly match parts and away we go......
Then again, maybe it works for them, but I can't imagine that having the most hardened fanbase/community grinding axes is really going to help in the overall when the enthusiasts are who a company wants in their corner. If they think they are truly high end company that can make that approach work it is their choice and their right. Most other high end outfits do well without that but tha said most don't have Klipsch's history so who knows.....
But as they say on the web, I was "in before the lock" and got my speakers all done sufficient for my lifetime before this all closed up. Granted I could still do this but I did it on older knowledge and rekindling old connections from that forum to get it done. I finished it and can't tell 'em what I did, LOL.....but you can't get the info over there now. So I am most happy for getting the results, if not for the surrounding overlying issue itself. So I guess I can yap about it here I suppose along with the new Mac amp I got to drive these new restorations. I can certainly report that the new Mac amps mate extremely well with those Cornwall cabs, just as they have through the years The more things change the more they stay the same......
I'm not alone here and not special, but I will say that I have been - in one form or another - involved with that forum for over 20 years, point of fact that 80% of my audio life and solutions were a direct result of that forum. I came to that place a numbskull, and still might be half a numbskull, but I have learned a BUNCH about the specifics of MY Klipsch cabs and what worked and what did not work in terms of "squeezing the most" out of them over the years.
One constant factor was that for over 15 of those years I traveled that road with the SAME FOUR PAIRS of speakers in the same rooms with the same batch of gears. So there aren't a bunch of variables all working at once as would be the case with some, who had this and had that, and upgraded this and upgraded that. Once I found out what cabs I could fit in here, I set about doing what I could to make those cabs the absolute best they could be, while NOT altering so much of it that it becomes "something else". I LOVE the essential concept of the Cornwall in particular, which I think was the greatest floor standing loudspeaker ever created for general use in proper sized rooms, especially in the 1970's and 1980's, where those were really special in the marketplace. I knew that was a "lifer" type of speaker, as well as their brethren.
I did a search (back when it was Lycos and Yahoo and Excite for search engines) and found that thing - the Klipsch Forum. Within just a few years of that discovery, I now had multiples of Heritage Klipsch in the house, landing on three pairs of Cornwalls (theater) and a pair of Belles (2CH) and a host of different gears to play them on. Custom amp solutions (NOSValves and JuicyMusic) because THEY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE new amps ideal for driving these. People were buying MC30s and MC240s and Dynacos to feed them, this back when MC30s were still under $1500 a pair mint (and oft 500 each) and NONE of those new amp companies nor the NEW product you really would want was out there. Not like it is now.
When I landed upon that forum, Klipsch was building ONLY the KHorn out of the heritage line IIRC (maybe the Heresys but I thought that had a break too?) But CERTAINLY no Cornwalls, LaScala, Chorus, Forte.....NONE of that stuff. It was Epic and Synergy etc etc etc.....they sold KHorns but pretty much only if ordered through VERY select outlets - like you could see those in VERY few places......
There WAS NO "customer service" really associated with that old Heritage stuff, in so far as what ended up being on the "demand side" from knuckleheads like me finding our way to that place and buying up and refurbing Heritage cabs, along with all manner of other experiments. Klipsch of course was selling all kinds of then RF and other commercially common successful stuff, intermingling with us crazies who were really showing people what the idea of "no limits" was all about. It is in that period where us knuckleheads were providing that free "advert" for the ENTIRE IDEA of producing Heritage again. Every time I see that Heritage logo page I can't help but think how much "we built that".
BECAUSE, while Klipsch was selling RF and similar to Best Buy, and the general public at large, who didn't know what a KHorn or a Cornwall even or ever was, who thought that Klipsch was just another "Best Buy"/consumer level brand.......we changed that. The whole da---- world had gone "Bose"-O over "smaller is better", and in 1989, when Fred Klipsch bought the company they were selling 22Mil in product annual and the Heritage stuff was mostly not produced while the company tried to find out how to survive. They did that by going where the market was, and doing a lot of things people thought were "non-Klipsch" in that process. But they survived.
And in that time, when they "retooled" what Klipsch was to be, and where survivability WAS in seemingly in question, the Klipsch Heritage Army on that forum brought legitimacy to what Klipsch was doing everywhere else. When the newer generations didn't know that Klipsch really DID have a GREAT history through GREAT loudspeakers, we told them - and showed them - just how good they were. Cornwalls were so dead I bought three pairs for under 1700 back then, when you could buy MC30 for $500 each - that was the real "market" they were numerous and the "secret" wasn't "out yet" aside from "those look old". Hahahahaha...... So even though they didn't have a place to sell them in the '00s, we showed them what a Klipschorn was (and that they still sold them/could order them and how) as well as showing the audio enthusiast of new that we REALLY WERE SERIOUS. And that "swinging for the fences" made people feel that the RF and other experiences were special too - and point of fact they absolutely are, It gave legitimacy to the Klipsch Project as a whole.
Then they actually start building the Heritage line again. Because after us knuckleheads pretty much bought up the entirety of the good supply of used Heritage (and there was a LOT of it out there, cuz they built a BUNCH of it in the '60's and '70's in particular) there was actually a growing market for new Heritage. AND because us knuckleheads rebuilt/refurbed those old cabs and showed people they were "good for life" that justified the asking prices of the new Heritage product, which was not cheap. But we showed VALUE to the onlooker watching us knuckleheads on the forum rocking the nation on these Klipsch of all ages and sizes.
The other point that gets lost was the "open nature" of that forum, where the various versions of "truths" are laid bare for all to see, and for us to evaluate, and even attempt to duplicate or prove to ourselves. The proof was in the LISTENING, where we would send each other networks, go to others houses for sound offs, and really put the talk to the sound room. So I was allowed to make what I could of ALL of the opinions posted, with ALL of what people thought of builds, formulae, gears, etc. and actually LISTEN to that stuff. And that's where the wheat starts to separate from the chaff because now it's no longer theoretical. We dared ask questions about just how to tear into a McIntosh MC30 because at that time it was one of the acknowledged best pieces available to drive those speakers, at a time when new options weren't really plentiful yet. We would listen to four/five different cap sets in the same set of amps on the same set of speakers because we were geeky knuckleheads but moreover wanted to make those amps the BEST they could be. And if that provided better service to a Klipsch speaker, that made it topical. And we succeeded, rather wildly. As well as assuring budding tube amp outfits that there really WAS a future in tube gear.
That "we will test anything you throw at us" ethos - we will try anything, and in front of the lurking public - brought Klipsch to where it is today,. selling Heritage in DEALERS in places they haven't in years. How viable that is remains to be seen but appears to be good on some basis and locations. But it was all based on that "open truth(s)" sort of idea - that we the CUSTOMER will lay all this threadbare, and make both OUR old speakers as well as Klipsch in the current BETTER because NONE of us have anything to hide.
I know from most who do this biz of "mods" and similar that the OVERWHELMING majority of onlookers and potential customers would never do what we knuckleheads did to our speakers and systems. I'll never forget telling the JBL rep in Cali hw I was using two 4638 cabinets (mind you these are professional theater dual 15" cabs retailing for $1500 each in year 2000 dollars and I'm buying them on the advice of Klipsch Knuckleheads who are using them for LFE on a home theater kit with their LaScalas/Cornwalls.etc.....) - sold to us from the Northridge earthquake sale for $400 for TWO (tax and shipping only because insurance had already paid off the warehouse), so my woofers not only survived an earthquake (they were in fact as new) but are STILL the beasts of my HT 18 years later. They thought we were certifiable. Maybe so, but we do good ads
But the OTHER 99% of people don't want Dean's networks, my JBLs, the horns Dnyamatted, the mids converted to A55Gs - they just want speaker they can order, place and enjoy. I don't think that we are ANY threat to Klipsch AT ALL, in fact, if they just kept that talk in that one section I think the issue is fixed. Crites sold new nets to those people because Klipsch couldn't or wouldn't. Guess what - they are FINALLY doing it now......
I think this is a totally fear based idea that Klipsch is losing sales because of mods, and in fact SUPPORTS THE BRAND by keeping that product viable in the marketplace. It also demonstrates by allowing that "talk" that Klipsch really isn't afraid of TRUTHS because Klipsch is more than capable of responding to the market and in fact dare I say that the Klipsch current product has a little bit of us in it, because it has the company pressing to do better. This is good for ALL of us.
MOST will want to buy a new set of Cornwall IV after seeing MY Cornwall I system modified with SMAHKL/A55G/Crites 1526/DeanG/Multi RTX/Double Dynamatted because it's EASIER to order your cabs to the finish you want and have the BEST of Klipsch in the current. But they fear us, and for no good reason. I get true "competitors" like people selling whole speakers getting grief. If I got Crites Cornscalawalls I can see not being allowed to yap about them. But I got Klipsch Cornwalls with all drop in replacement parts with original Klipsch schematic and geometry then I guess that's a bridge too far?
I have this to be thankful for, after those long 20 years, is that I DO have my "audio dream system" to the extent that I envisioned it ever coming to pass. I LONG had decided the Cornwalls and Belles would stay as cabs and that when the best of a restoration solution came available and to a point I could pay for it, I did exactly that - completely re-drivering and networking the cabs as to have them be here and good for another 30+ years and being the best they could be. I succeeded beyond my wildest dreams. That in large part to the fact that we had arrived at those solutions through years of testing and evaluating various approaches, a number of them measured, all of them sonically evaluated extensively to get to where I got to. Others did the work, I took and proved out the advice. And I was GREATLY rewarded for that.
Klipsch has EVERY RIGHT to do what they are doing . It is their sandbox. But that said, I think it's a mistake, at least in the way it seems to be playing out. But that's nothing new actually - that forum has been taking on the aroma of "State TV" for YEARS, with the "all amps sound the same", "only Klipsch authorized network parts are acceptable" (when they hadn't offered that for YEARS and only JUST NOW do they have someone who can actually build one of those to how it needs to look and work) and "no mods". I don't have issue with whole sale speaker builders not hawking stuff on forum and am OK with limiting that activity in terms of advert and sales generally. But in an arena where "Klipsch replacement parts" on old stuff has been an oxymoron over the years (at least to an effective customer service/able to deliver basis) as well as just trying to now pretty much pretend that doesn't exist, as they would like to sell you new speakers more generally, it's a bad look from a company that built their greatest successes on having not much to hide. PWK even printed that stuff in those DFH papers. He TOLD people with no hiding what was up. That has TREMENDOUS credibility. As I always have said, the truth is plain to hear and spec sheets only listenable by shuffling them.
Again, 95% of new people will buy new Cornwalls and be thrilled with them before they buy Cornwall Is and do what I did. Probably more like 99%. Sure, old Corn I owners will do my way SOME, but many will sell and get new, or just do a basic upgrade like a Crites network (which Klipsch failed to be able to provide). Even after I got the parts it took MONTHS to do that job right. People LIKE new and after doing all the work on mine they aren't entirely wrong, LOL. I truly don't get what they are afraid of. For every one of us, there's a bunch more buying new, and oft because WE OWNERS gave that legitimacy to the brand......and we still do, at least in terms of "end product". But if they think they can "control the conversation" in TODAY'S world, they really have something amiss with the water supply in Arkansas and Indy. It's a bad look, when that "legitimacy " is everything. They are charging what....7K for Corns now, they can put good parts and do good with that....with the best of modern engineering (Roy IS good at this), so what's the problem? I spent 7K across six speakers for my upgrades but that was still already owning the cabs too. So they think that someone will buy three pairs of Cornwalls and do what I did vs just calling a dealer and hammering out a price?? In the real world it's rare, but they fact that we do on 50 year old speakers just makes Klipsch that much MORE legit and NOT less. Klipsch's designs are so good we just dropped in new properly match parts and away we go......
Then again, maybe it works for them, but I can't imagine that having the most hardened fanbase/community grinding axes is really going to help in the overall when the enthusiasts are who a company wants in their corner. If they think they are truly high end company that can make that approach work it is their choice and their right. Most other high end outfits do well without that but tha said most don't have Klipsch's history so who knows.....
But as they say on the web, I was "in before the lock" and got my speakers all done sufficient for my lifetime before this all closed up. Granted I could still do this but I did it on older knowledge and rekindling old connections from that forum to get it done. I finished it and can't tell 'em what I did, LOL.....but you can't get the info over there now. So I am most happy for getting the results, if not for the surrounding overlying issue itself. So I guess I can yap about it here I suppose along with the new Mac amp I got to drive these new restorations. I can certainly report that the new Mac amps mate extremely well with those Cornwall cabs, just as they have through the years
The more things change the more they stay the same......
cecaa850
Well-Known Member
I was a moderator there for years, gave countless hours of my personal time keeping the forum clean, listening to gripes, banning spammers, settling disputes etc. The forum started to turn about the time Voxx bought them out. It was subtle at first but you could tell things were different. Back then modification threads were abundant and discussions were lively. Crites was the only one giving any support for the older Heritage stuff, well, ALK was too now that I think about it. Klipsch corp gave no parts or technical support for the older stuff. There was a void of service and the aftermarket filled it. The only threads that were hidden or locked were the ones that were political or ones where members attacked each other. Now your thread will get locked if you talk about changing the internal wire in your speaker. I quit the forum when Roy gave me a warning point for something. He never would tell me what it was for. After that, a thread was started as to my whereabouts when I stopped posting and it was hidden within a day. I have zero respect for those running the forum now and the actions they've taken but it's their forum and I respect their right for them to do whatever the hell they want to do with it. It's dying on the vine and I believe that's exactly what they want. They're also clueless as to how many speaker sales the old forum members generated for them
- Status
