marantzfan
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I'm going to keep an eye on this space....
The Advent Loudspeaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
I'm going to keep an eye on this space....
Everyone wants the best sound they can get. The difference is the definition of "best". For you, apparently, that means the most accurate spacial representation of the source. For some people, "best" means the most accurate tonal representation of the source. For some, "best" means the most pleasing to listen to for long periods which may mean rolled off highs or recessed mids or maybe pumped up bass. This may make them less than the "best" in your eyes (ears) but that doesn't matter to the other listeners.
Ray
marantzfan
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Zlch, can you give us a recap as to what exaclty is living inside these speakers right now...E.G. Crossover, drivers, damping, etc...
Also, how would these trials differ from, say, the New Large Advents...
Also, how would these trials differ from, say, the New Large Advents...
AlleyKat
Super Member
I would really appreciate any information that would make it possible to tame the high end and bring out the midrange in the pair of New Advents I recently picked up. I paid very little for them and they were subject to my first adventure in re-foaming (successful
). I find the high end, even with the tweeter setting decreased, to verge on unbearable. It seems to be improving (slightly) as the surrounds get break-in but, I find it hard to spend time listening to them long enough to fully achieve it. I've been seeking mods for the crossovers on the web, however, my lack of technical expertise and the plethora of Advent models has made it hard to figure out a plan for modification.
As I haven't owned a pair of 2 way speakers in about 40 years, I really am a bit uncomfortable with the sound balance from these speakers...plenty of pretty good tight bass, but screeching tweeters and a significant midrange hole leave me wondering if recapping or mods can bring these to a level of performance that I can tolerate, let alone enjoy.
). I find the high end, even with the tweeter setting decreased, to verge on unbearable. It seems to be improving (slightly) as the surrounds get break-in but, I find it hard to spend time listening to them long enough to fully achieve it. I've been seeking mods for the crossovers on the web, however, my lack of technical expertise and the plethora of Advent models has made it hard to figure out a plan for modification.As I haven't owned a pair of 2 way speakers in about 40 years, I really am a bit uncomfortable with the sound balance from these speakers...plenty of pretty good tight bass, but screeching tweeters and a significant midrange hole leave me wondering if recapping or mods can bring these to a level of performance that I can tolerate, let alone enjoy.
These are chamfered-edge OLAs. They have the original masonite woofers, recently refoamed, 8" JBL PT waveguides, and D220Ti HF drivers. The original foam has been replaced with a "heavy fill" of R-15 fiberglass. For testing, I'm running biamped with a modified E'Wave HF comp filter, looks like.
I don't have any NLAs, but despite others' contention that the woofers are interchangeable, the lowpass filters in the two models say it's not so. Ultimately, I'll have to round up some of the newer metal-frame woofers, which will supposedly fit these OLA cabs, and do the measurements with them to answer this question.Also, how would these trials differ from, say, the New Large Advents...
The measurements certainly suggest, ironically, that there was some intent to mimick West Coast bass in these, yes. I've gotten into a couple of "debates" about that here. I put that in quotes, because it has gotten pretty nasty. These are supposed to be "East Coast" speakers, and to suggest otherwise is, well, heretical.
I hope that doesn't happen here; we can discuss what they are, and what we like and dislike about them, without it getting personal or insulting. It's clear that we've already sussed out significant deviations from common wisdom regarding these popular speakers. Let's keep it civil, please, so that we all may learn and benefit from everyone's experiences.... :thmbsp:
marantzfan
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So, are you using the orignal crossovers AND the HF comp filter?
No. The original crossovers are not involved. The HF is an E'Wave variant, and it's E'Wave crossovers I'm working with. I'm biamped so that I can dial the lowpass filter around for these woofers and find what might optimally play with this combination. :yes:
Hi, Jerry!
I wouldn't call it "fruitless," exactly, particularly for those who like the original Advent sound, but measurements and several of the comments above would indicate that the tweeters are a major shortcoming here. A modern compression driver on a waveguide may actually better accomplish the original intent of this design.... :thmbsp:
Well-spoken. I fully realize that Advents are the not last word in speaker performance. A stock OLA is a bit veiled, and don't provide holographic imaging. But they do really respond well, in my personal experience, to first-class components in front of them. My experiences are that the most important parts, in order, of a music-reproduction chain start with the source, for listening to vinyl it is:
recording->mastering->pressing->cartridge->turntable->arm->phono stage->preamp->amp->speakers, with approrpriate diligence to the details, e.g. attenuation of resonances, cabling, etc. throughout.
If you really want to talk outstanding speaker performance, we're talking Wilson Alexandria X2's, Magico's, Sonus-Faber Cremona M's, etc. Nothing I've ever heard can hold a candle to Alexandria X2's with a Keith Johnson recorded master to reel-to-reel tape as a source. Hearing something like that is truly extraordinary.
But it doesn't mean that a nicely setup pair of Advents can't be a fully engaging and enjoyable musical experience with some excellent components, and care and thought put into the set-up. I can tell you that the component that made the most significant improvement recently in my sound system was my Grado Reference Sonata, not what speakers I am using. It made my Cambridge Ensembles, Era Design 4's and LA's all sound better. And using any of those speakers with that cartridge, for me personally, can provide an engaging and musical experience.
Rybeam
Super Member
I have a pair of NLA. I have an acoustically hard room and soft room. The NLAs love the soft room , but are harsh in the hard room, but so are many other speakers I have had. The NLA's are currently battling it out with a pair of AR 2ax, very close in sound. The NLAs have the sparkle the ARs are a bit warmer. All in all a nice problem to have.
I can see how the Advents would be harsh in a hard room; mine is in-between, but very clearly on the hard side of things, but I am going to be putting up quite a few damping materials in it soften it considerably.
My Era Design 4's, which are ruthlessly revealing, can come close to driving you out of the room on some brightly recorded and mastered LPs from the 70's.
Having that selector switch on the Advents can be a real blessing.
My Era Design 4's, which are ruthlessly revealing, can come close to driving you out of the room on some brightly recorded and mastered LPs from the 70's.
Having that selector switch on the Advents can be a real blessing.
spkrdtr
spkrfixer
Yes, that third and equally crucial transducer in the audio chain, the phono cartridge - albeit in less use today. The recording microphone, cartridge and loudspeaker are the three most influential components in the audio chain. They transform mechanical to electrical energy and back again. In between, it's all electrons. That's not to say CD players, preamps and amps aren't important. IMO, reasonably well manufactured components will have significanty less potential to impact the outcome of the recording's reproduction.
Well, "hate" is a considerable overstatement. I observed earlier in this thread that I thought them to be O.K. speaks, just not deserving of such widespread acclaim as they appparently enjoy.
The fact that they may be acquired nearly everywhere for something on the order of $10 seems to be more of a dominant factor in their popularity than their actual performance capability, in my view.... :yes:
grateful
Super Member
They were so popular because they offered exceptional value. They are smooth and accurate to a fault. Very accurate speakers don't appeal to pop listeners. Inexperienced listeners expect the speaker to "blow them away" Very good speakers don't do that. They just sound right if somewhat unassuming. Their superiority is evident with recordings of acoustic music played on real non electronic instruments. They are examples of speakers that sound like nothing.
spkrdtr
spkrfixer
No order of preference of importance was intended. The order I listed was simply the basic audio chain simplified to the nth degree (i.e. recording device = mic, playback device = cartridge & listening device = speaker at the end of the audio chain). Mostly these days it's only fhe former and the latter.
