desertrat748
Super Member
This is a common theme for many of us. Especially with those of us who have to rely upon our ears and not the spec sheets.
The best phono preamp under $1000 (aka the Hagerman Bugle upgrade thread)
- Thread starter oranda
- Start date
I don't know if this is the most recent, current version of my Bugle 2, but I've upgraded some parts on it a couple times now and also added some mkt bypass caps underneath pins 4 & 8 of the opamps. I think it sounds pretty good. The last thing I was looking to do was buy a better (linear) power supply from somewhere as an upgrade to replace the original smps. I haven't looked through all 31 pages of this thread, but is Jameco part 174879 an upgrade, or is there another improved ps you can recommend? Thank you.
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I'd also be curious if anyone's done any head-to-head between the Bugle 2 and Realistic 42-2101A or 42-2930 (either stock or upgraded).
oranda
Active Member
The stock Bugle 2/3 is a more modern, higher performance phono preamp. I bought a Realistic with the intention to mod it, and while it isn't bad, it doesn't have the upside of the Bugle.
If you are interested specifically with my mods, start with posts #1, #305, and #532, then I would read over Jim Hagerman's posts #410, #471, & #473. There have been a lot of amazing contributions from several others, so after those 6 suggested posts you can read more as time and interest allow.
As far as the power supply goes, any well made linear, regulated supply will be a nice upgrade, with the Jamenco mentioned in the first post being a decent, economical option. Stepping up from that, I've used iFi power supplies and like them a lot, but their 24V Power Elite will cost significantly more.
Just a quick update. I popped a Muses8820 in the middle position. An OPA2210 and LM49723 had both served time in that slot. Plus the stock 4562 and a 49720 just for grins. Anybody who says these 2 opamps are identical sonically must not have good ears and/or a veiled system.
I was determined to let the 8820 sink or swim on its own merits rather than pre-judging it based on its miniscule price.
Man, this chip sounds great in my setup. It shifted the whole frequency response away from a hot treble. Voices are very clear and brought forward in the mix. Bass guitar has fantastic pitch definition, even on lps that seemed bass shy. Rim shot snare drum hits convey the pitch of the air inside the drum. The individual voices in harmonies are easy to distinguish, yet are nicely blended.
Low risk, high reward (at least in my case!)
I was determined to let the 8820 sink or swim on its own merits rather than pre-judging it based on its miniscule price.
Man, this chip sounds great in my setup. It shifted the whole frequency response away from a hot treble. Voices are very clear and brought forward in the mix. Bass guitar has fantastic pitch definition, even on lps that seemed bass shy. Rim shot snare drum hits convey the pitch of the air inside the drum. The individual voices in harmonies are easy to distinguish, yet are nicely blended.
Low risk, high reward (at least in my case!)
oranda
Active Member
I agree and think those MUSES chips have fantastic tonality, especially with voices. As I mentioned, I think I prefer the LM49723 bit due to the detail and coherence, but which works better depends on one's taste and system. Glad to see you fine tuning things to your liking!!
I completely agree. Then there is the LME49860 which is just a higher voltage version of the LME49720. Different again to my ears.
oranda
Active Member
Welcome to the thread!
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Handling time is slow, but their selection is quite good. Looking forward to your comments on your upgrades!
I'm dropping into this thread after a long time away from it. After seeing @wushuliu's post above I checked Hagerman's site and was a bit surprised that it seems his offerings have gone up market from where I remember. I owned a Bugle2 and later a Cornet 3 and enjoyed them a ton but the base Bugle costs more than the Cornet 3 did last time I checked. Not complaining, but wish he still offered the simpler/less expensive options as well.
wushuliu
Super Member
Yeah. But he still has the Cornet diy pcb and enclosure for really cheap though. That looks like the steal of the bunch.
The kit - in this case just the PCB and a manual - is $39. The user has to get hold of all the other parts and put it together, but nothing needs to be very expensive if they don't want it to be.
It could be a fun project for those who already know how to build from kits, and a fun new set of skills to learn for those who don't.
I like the look of the Cornet kit myself.
I'm a tube cat.
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desertrat748
Super Member
I just built one and it can be done under 200 bucks even with some high quality caps and resistors. But going all out is still not crazy and provides an excellent phono preamp.
Follow Oranda’s advice with the latest updated upgrade version. The opamps have been compared and tested out extensively so I really suggest the ones that Oranda suggests for each position of U2, U3, U4.
Also the silver micas C5 caps, the Amtrans caps in C6 & C4, Takman REY resistors in all possible positions (some values cannot be found in the Takman REYs, I think 2 positions will have to be something else)
A good linear power supply and you will be amazed. The total cost for an all out effort on my part was something like $300-$350. Premium parts throughout. I don’t even consider the similar build but w/o the Takman REYs nor the Charcroft Silver Mica caps in C5.
Cheers
desertrat748
Super Member
Decided to go all out with Charcroft Siver Mica caps for the C5 position instead of my previous CD Silver Micas and used the Amtrans in C4 and C6. Also used Takman REY resistors for every one of the resistors that were available in the correct size. I believe it is a total 4 pairs which I used Dales.
These update mods did set me back about $60 more than last build. But it is imo worth it! Followed in Oranda’s footsteps with opamp choices and the difference between the previous bugle build is more than expected.
The sparkle in the hf and the added detail across the fr is just plain amazing and I dare say that I will never be going back to the previous version.
If you want some added detail and sparkle try some of these suggestions in your next bugle build.
These update mods did set me back about $60 more than last build. But it is imo worth it! Followed in Oranda’s footsteps with opamp choices and the difference between the previous bugle build is more than expected.
The sparkle in the hf and the added detail across the fr is just plain amazing and I dare say that I will never be going back to the previous version.
If you want some added detail and sparkle try some of these suggestions in your next bugle build.
knotscott
Super Member
I also grabbed a Cornet 3 pcb, and will start to gather the other needed supplies "soon".
desertrat748
Super Member
Just listened to a very good pressing of Kristen Edkins Shapes and Sound using the modded bugle3 mentioned in my post 539. Compared with my first Bugle build and this build with premium parts used throughout, it is heads above with detail and natural openness.
The only difference between the pictures above and current model are the Amtrans AMCG metalized Polypropylene caps are used in both C4 & C6 positions. The Mundorf caps in the C6 position were replaced with the Amtrans. Along with the Charcroft Silver Mica caps in C5 and the REY Takman resistors used throughout make this Bugle build an absolute gem. I don’t think can be topped by anything else under $1,000. I am still dumbfounded how resistors can make such a difference in the hf sparkle.
Just wanted to let some time lapse after the first thoughts to see if my opinion might have changed. I have found that it seems to be improving so some change has indeed happened or it is my imagination. I guess I should not have compared it to my first build just once more.
If you find yourself wanting to up your game at a relatively small price using premium parts, this is the way.
The only difference between the pictures above and current model are the Amtrans AMCG metalized Polypropylene caps are used in both C4 & C6 positions. The Mundorf caps in the C6 position were replaced with the Amtrans. Along with the Charcroft Silver Mica caps in C5 and the REY Takman resistors used throughout make this Bugle build an absolute gem. I don’t think can be topped by anything else under $1,000. I am still dumbfounded how resistors can make such a difference in the hf sparkle.
Just wanted to let some time lapse after the first thoughts to see if my opinion might have changed. I have found that it seems to be improving so some change has indeed happened or it is my imagination. I guess I should not have compared it to my first build just once more.
If you find yourself wanting to up your game at a relatively small price using premium parts, this is the way.
oranda
Active Member
Great parts + great engineering = all time classic component.
desertrat748
Super Member
I have to preface my post here that my system has been updated and upgraded significantly. The most significant changes are the preamp and the amp. Went with a T+A preamp (used P 1230 because I don’t have $24k for a new HV 3000) and a slightly used Classe’ CA 2200 amp. Both are excellent quality and design and above all the most transparent amp & preamp that I have ever owned or heard. Also they are absolutely quiet. The darkest inky black noise floor even when at maximum gain w no input.
I wanted to stress w the recent system upgrades, I am able to hear subtle changes different opamps can make. Examples like breathing close to a mic or the extra detail with brushes on a snare.
I am still using my 2nd build Bugle that used all premium resistors and capacitors (c4,c5, c6) but switched opamp to the 4562 in U3 (middle slot) instead of the LM49723. This was a suggestion from Oranda and I am so glad I tried it out.
Took a little bit off the slightly forward midrange (depending upon album recording) and now made it more enjoyable. So much so that I played one album over again 3 times. That good. I am also able to play it with at higher volume levels without fatigue.
So glad for the advice and help with the Bugle upgrades. Making a believer out of me even though I previously thought “Snake Oil” for years. Thanks Oranda!
I wanted to stress w the recent system upgrades, I am able to hear subtle changes different opamps can make. Examples like breathing close to a mic or the extra detail with brushes on a snare.
I am still using my 2nd build Bugle that used all premium resistors and capacitors (c4,c5, c6) but switched opamp to the 4562 in U3 (middle slot) instead of the LM49723. This was a suggestion from Oranda and I am so glad I tried it out.
Took a little bit off the slightly forward midrange (depending upon album recording) and now made it more enjoyable. So much so that I played one album over again 3 times. That good. I am also able to play it with at higher volume levels without fatigue.
So glad for the advice and help with the Bugle upgrades. Making a believer out of me even though I previously thought “Snake Oil” for years. Thanks Oranda!
oranda
Active Member
That's the lineup I now have installed in my Bugle. From the first opamp, I use:
OPA2210 -> LM4562 -> LT1358
Which means for those who want to employ the opamp mods into a modern, stock Bugle which already comes with OPA2210 -> LM4562, they would just need to buy a DIP8 LT1358 and they will have it. Truly an amazing sound that floors me every time I have vinyl spinning.
desertrat748
Super Member
Absolutely can verify that lineup and performance!