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The horror of mono in stereo demonstrated

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I didn't listen to the clips but I'll say that I long ago decided I'd never own an integrated amp or pre-amp that lacks a MONO switch. ..There are too many songs dating back to the early days of Stereo that are unlistenable b/c they treated stereo like a gimmicky special effect. For example: Several Beatles songs have the guitar coming entirely from one speaker and the voice entirely from the other. John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" has (can't recall the track) the Sax coming completely from one channel and the drums from the other. ..These songs are way more realistic sounding in Mono. ..I feel the same about Tone controls. ..Will never again own an amp w/out Bass and Treble to use (sparingly) when a song is too bright or boomy to be enjoyed.
 
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gnuyork: Try 'phones or stream to a "real" audio lash up. What happens in proper mono-ized mono is that uncorrelated noise gets folded into the centered music signal and thereby is not attended to...rather than taking on a life of its own in the left and right channels.
 
ODS123 said:
I didn't listen to the clips but I'll say that I long ago decided I'd never own an integrated amp or pre-amp that lacks a MONO switch. ..There are too many songs dating back to the early days of Stereo that are unlistenable b/c they treated stereo like a gimmicky special effect. For example: Several Beatles songs have the guitar coming entirely from one speaker and the voice entirely from the other. John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" has (can't recall the track) the Sax coming completely from one channel and the speakers from the other. ..These songs are way more realistic sounding in Mono. ..I feel the same about Tone controls. ..Will never again own an amp w/out Bass and Treble to use (sparingly) when a song is too bright or boomy to be enjoyed.
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I have that same Coltrane album on CD and I experienced the same thing. Back in the early days of stereo, they tended to "over separate" L/R channels which is not nearly as realistic an effect as when they are "blended" (for lack of better terminology). I couldn't agree more about tone controls either.

I still play that Coltrane album in normal stereo mode nonetheless. :)
 
ODS123 said:
I didn't listen to the clips but I'll say that I long ago decided I'd never own an integrated amp or pre-amp that lacks a MONO switch. ..There are too many songs dating back to the early days of Stereo that are unlistenable b/c they treated stereo like a gimmicky special effect. For example: Several Beatles songs have the guitar coming entirely from one speaker and the voice entirely from the other. John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" has (can't recall the track) the Sax coming completely from one channel and the speakers from the other. ..These songs are way more realistic sounding in Mono. ..I feel the same about Tone controls. ..Will never again own an amp w/out Bass and Treble to use (sparingly) when a song is too bright or boomy to be enjoyed.
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Yes, indeed. Back in the day, many of the Prestige LPs came out in mono only. In the CD era, the remasterers went back to RVG's original tracks which separated rhythm from horns, etc. and released new "stereo" versions which, like you, I often find unlistenable until if re-mono them. Part of that, of course, is based on what I expected to hear. If I'd not had years of listening to the mono LPs, I might have accepted the stereo CDs more readily. My most significant example is the "Kirk's Work" date.
 
I never quite understood why so many recordings of 1 instrument recorded with 1 mic are done in stereo...

I did not pay much attention to the mono switch when I was buying an amp, luckily I picked one who had it.

What about styluses and cartridges? There seems to be more than one option when it comes to needles.
 
I've preferred listening to mono records with a stereo cartridge and system. After all, I bought many mono albums when all I had was a mono system with the promise on the record jacket that "played on a stereophonic machine, it gives even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity." I have found this to be true. I also like having the music centered between the speakers while what noise is present is usually off to the sides and therefore, to me, less intrusive.
 
ic-racer said:
Why?
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It's an opportunity to use phase cancellation to dramatically reduce surface noise and/or rumble on some monaural records. For stereo playback the horizontal motion of the stylus is the sum channel L+R, while the vertical motion is the difference channel L-R. During monaural playback summing the two channels adds the horizontal movement (L+R) and cancels the vertical movement (L-R) which is rumble and noise/distortion. The cancellation can be 25 to 30 dB, so quite effective. It makes a lot of difference on some records, especially if they have seen some damage or were lacquered on rough equipment. On later records in good shape it might make very little difference.

If you doubt that summing electrically can make much difference I'd suggest you swap the polarity of one channel of your phono cartridge at the pins, then play a monaural record with the mono switch engaged and see what you think.
 
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tubewade said:
It's an opportunity to use phase cancellation to dramatically reduce surface noise and/or rumble on some monaural records. For stereo playback the horizontal motion of the stylus is the sum channel L+R, while the vertical motion is the difference channel L-R. During monaural playback summing the two channels adds the horizontal movement (L+R) and cancels the vertical movement (L-R) which is rumble and noise/distortion. The cancellation can be 25 to 30 dB, so quite effective. It makes a lot of difference on some records, especially if they have seen some damage or were lacquered on rough equipment. On later records in good shape it might make very little difference.

If you doubt that summing electrically can make much difference I'd suggest you swap the polarity of one channel of your phono cartridge at the pins, then play a monaural record with the mono switch engaged and see what you think.
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The speakers won't do that?
 
I purchased a Ventures collection not long ago. The music was so so, but what I really liked was listening to the development of "stereo" recording techniques. You are right, some songs have vocals in one channel and instruments in the other. Yet they evolve with more and more instrument placement and eventually a "stereo" image begins to form. It is a lesson in recording history which I found to be really interesting. Much more so than the Ventures. There is also a lot of early Hendrix like this as well.
 
@ic-racer

Not to the same degree. Have you ever listened to a distant FM station, hearing music. but with rather a lot of static and white noise? Then you pressed the "mono" button and the noise was gone! Very similar principle here in that the noise is on the L-R signal which cancels in mono. Speakers can give very limited cancellation in this respect.
 
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revox-b77 said:
I purchased a Ventures collection not long ago. The music was so so, but what I really liked was listening to the development of "stereo" recording techniques. You are right, some songs have vocals in one channel and instruments in the other. Yet they evolve with more and more instrument placement and eventually a "stereo" image begins to form. It is a lesson in recording history which I found to be really interesting. Much more so than the Ventures. There is also a lot of early Hendrix like this as well.
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My guess is that either mastering techniques had yet to be refined for the new 2-channel format or that "hard separation" was needed to give early stereo equipment owners a sense of "getting their money's worth" which might not have been the case (if more subtle L/R mastering techniques were used.)

I'm inclined to go with the former but it could well have been both.
 
Solist said:
I never quite understood why so many recordings of 1 instrument recorded with 1 mic are done in stereo...
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Was probably done with a stereo microphone.

Even with single instrument, stereo can help to provide a 3D effect for greater realism that mono cannot.

shvp88.jpg
 
62caddy said:
Was probably done with a stereo microphone.

Even with single instrument, stereo can help to provide a 3D effect for greater realism that mono cannot.

shvp88.jpg
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Down the road a bit, Bruce Swedien introduced us to "The Accusonic Recording Process" which did make for some fantastic sounding LPs by Michael Jackson, George Benson, and others around and after that time which came from that team of Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton and Bruce Swedien. Accusonic was recording and mixing all the tracks in true stereo rather than laying down mono tracks and pan mixing them to fake stereo. It really worked. Those albums sound just amazing.
 
bfotk said:
Unless you have a dedicated mono cartridge, your vinyl playback system needs a switch somewhere to combine left and right channels into one.

Here's why.

mono vinyl played as if stereo (YUK): http://bit.ly/monoinstereo
mono vinyl played in mono (AHH): http://bit.ly/monoinmono
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I listened to both on my good headphones. The only difference is that the surface noise is in stereo. Over speakers it wouldn't matter at all and it doesn't matter much with headphones.
 
ODS123 said:
I didn't listen to the clips but I'll say that I long ago decided I'd never own an integrated amp or pre-amp that lacks a MONO switch. ..There are too many songs dating back to the early days of Stereo that are unlistenable b/c they treated stereo like a gimmicky special effect. For example: Several Beatles songs have the guitar coming entirely from one speaker and the voice entirely from the other. John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" has (can't recall the track) the Sax coming completely from one channel and the speakers from the other. ..These songs are way more realistic sounding in Mono. ..I feel the same about Tone controls. ..Will never again own an amp w/out Bass and Treble to use (sparingly) when a song is too bright or boomy to be enjoyed.
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Same here ,no mono ,no tone control circuits ,no sale ,I can't imagine music without tone control ,I leave my McIntosh C-2500 bass at -12 DB 90% of the time , a dead flat response is way too overpowering with XRT-28s and XRT-22s , especially with newer recordings and CD .
 
I A-B'd my newly acquired mono prsssing of Simon and Garfunkel - Sounds of Silence on my Pioneer SX450 with mono switching. Can't tell a bit of difference.
 
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