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The Official Well Tempered Audio Thread

Has anyone figured out what Bill Firebaugh's presence is on FB? I just sniffed around and did not find any Bill or William Firebaughs that seemed likely. And the Well Tempered Lab has a FB page, but that's not Bill (if I interpreted correctly the posts above).
 
Grenadeslio said:
is the platter interchangeable with your classic? Would be interesting to hear what the differences are between the two.
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No. Very different spindle stock. The prototype is much smaller. And lighter. Which brings me back to my question about the dry bearing. I know the set up we’re used to is wet but this one is dry. The plater and spindle are VERY light. I’m wondering if it needed lube. Was he experimenting there also?
 
Barncats said:
Has anyone figured out what Bill Firebaugh's presence is on FB? I just sniffed around and did not find any Bill or William Firebaughs that seemed likely. And the Well Tempered Lab has a FB page, but that's not Bill (if I interpreted correctly the posts above).
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I’ve been snooping around but as yet haven’t found him. Of course I registered with FB yesterday in order to look him up, so I’m terrible at navigating around it so far.
 
Masonavenut said:
I’ve been snooping around but as yet haven’t found him. Of course I registered with FB yesterday in order to look him up, so I’m terrible at navigating around it so far.
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When I purchased my table last spring I contacted the new owner of WTL, he contacted Bill for me about a few things, I mentioned thinking about making a new plinth out of Corian, Bill recommended not doing it, said the MDF plinth sounds better:dunno:

still thinking about doing it anyway, it just looks so killer.
 
So does this mean the recommended route to Bill is through WTL?

The reason I ask is that the foam layers in my plinth appear to be sublimating. If I scootch down to the level of the plinth and look at the front face of it, I can see light in between the layers of MDF. In former times that was not true. Also my three layers of MDF had drifted out of alignment with one another at one point (I may have mentioned this earlier in this thread, wasn;t anything I was particularly concerned about). A recent check with McMaster-Carr and other suppliers yields a number of 1/6" foam products — urethane, polyethylene, rubber, silicone — and I would like to ask Bill which material he feels would be best suited for the transfer/absorption of vibration. What I faintly remember from my days working with Transparent is that he had used 3M brand foam, which I'm pretty sure is urethane, and this raw material would make sense since that tends to break down over time and lose flexibility with exposure to sunlight, etc. In the case of the plinth, sunlight not an issue, but still. IN any event, nothing better than going to The Source to pose the question.
 
I get the feeling we may be on our own as far as repairs are concerned. I’m sure the company doesn’t want to deal with us ole farts (apologies if you’re not ole ;) ) and our old machines.
Of course I know practically nothing as fact right now about this.
 
Barncats said:
So does this mean the recommended route to Bill is through WTL?

The reason I ask is that the foam layers in my plinth appear to be sublimating. If I scootch down to the level of the plinth and look at the front face of it, I can see light in between the layers of MDF. In former times that was not true. Also my three layers of MDF had drifted out of alignment with one another at one point (I may have mentioned this earlier in this thread, wasn;t anything I was particularly concerned about). A recent check with McMaster-Carr and other suppliers yields a number of 1/6" foam products — urethane, polyethylene, rubber, silicone — and I would like to ask Bill which material he feels would be best suited for the transfer/absorption of vibration. What I faintly remember from my days working with Transparent is that he had used 3M brand foam, which I'm pretty sure is urethane, and this raw material would make sense since that tends to break down over time and lose flexibility with exposure to sunlight, etc. In the case of the plinth, sunlight not an issue, but still. IN any event, nothing better than going to The Source to pose the question.
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sorbothane can be ordered in sheets of different thickness and durometer if that interests you.

As for the shifting plinth, was it that way when you bought it? I'm thinking it a quality control issue in manufacture more than it moved over time. Mine also has one section out of alignment with the other two, but no amount of force could shift it back, believe me I tried just short of destroying the thing lol.

This was my reason for making one out of Corian, figured if I was going to try and align the pieces i might just as well make a new one. Im also considering granite with sorbothane between.
 
Alignment: My plinth was perfectly aligned for many, many years. I got this turntable around 1990, and it wasn't until two years ago that I noticed the drift. The lower two parts of the plinth were still in perfect alignment, but the top one was out. I made an attempt to correct this by using cabinetmaker's F-clamps and blocks of soft white pine, so that over a period of a couple of weeks, each day I kept adding a tiny bit of turn to the screw to apply pressure. With this gradual-pressure method, the plinth seemed to go back into alignment, but now it's out again.

Foam: Sorbothane gets used for all manner of vibration-damping applications, so that's certainly a good thought. Still, I'd like to know from Mr. F himself what material he thinks does the best job. I intend to use this turntable for as long as I listen to music, and despite the inconvenience of removing the tonearm and platter bearing, and then reinstalling them, as a matter of pride I'd like to renew the two layers of foam.
 
I am always amazed at some materials ability to "creep" with thermal expansion and contraction.

I would wager that @Barncats top section of plinth is experiencing some temperature differential that cycles causing the top section to creep over time. Especially if the foam layers in between use some sort of highly cross-linked polyurethane adhesive.

Of course the most obvious would be sunlight which could easily cause creep if it hits one side of the plinth 1st then moves across the plinth where the original warmed section is the 1st to cool. However, I can also picture a subtle air flow from a vent doing the same thing. Who knows. It doesn't have to be extreme given enough time.

I can't help thinking of the Sailing Stones, but of course that has been determined to be caused by micro ice sheets and wind. Still, seemingly inanimate objects can be moved by the most mysterious of forces.
 
dogwan said:
I am always amazed at some materials ability to "creep" with thermal expansion and contraction.

I would wager that @Barncats top section of plinth is experiencing some temperature differential that cycles causing the top section to creep over time. Especially if the foam layers in between use some sort of highly cross-linked polyurethane adhesive.

Of course the most obvious would be sunlight which could easily cause creep if it hits one side of the plinth 1st then moves across the plinth where the original warmed section is the 1st to cool. However, I can also picture a subtle air flow from a vent doing the same thing. Who knows. It doesn't have to be extreme given enough time.

I can't help thinking of the Sailing Stones, but of course that has been determined to be caused by micro ice sheets and wind. Still, seemingly inanimate objects can be moved by the most mysterious of forces.
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what about the bottom section of mine lol?
 
I was going to let you guys listen to a vid of the table doing it’s thing but YouTube has changed how to upload and I haven’t found it yet.
But
It’s playing away and putting out some killer bass. It’s really quite nice. I’m really amazed with it.
 
Masonavenut said:
I was going to let you guys listen to a vid of the table doing it’s thing but YouTube has changed how to upload and I haven’t found it yet.
But
It’s playing away and putting out some killer bass. It’s really quite nice. I’m really amazed with it.
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If your using your cell phone to record and upload it’s the plus button at the bottom of your phone and it will give you the option to select the video you recorded on your phone , once it’s done uploading you go to your video and click on the share tab and select copy . Go back to AK and paste the video where you want.

Audiofreak71
 
Ok let’s try this out. I chose this record as the first because it was 2 bucks.

Then I went on to Dire Straits to check separation. This vid is from the side but trust me it’s great.

This is my Marantz separates system. A 3250 pre fed by a BelariVP 130 with a Ruby tube. The amp is a 170 out to RSL Elans. It’s a casual little system.

Thanks to Audiofreak71 for the help.
 
BTW the setup was pretty darn easy. There’s certainly more to play with (tonearm length) but as I set it up I instinctively know the WT system now, so today when I started setup I only had to check tracking force and adjust the angle a hair. It was darn close. Arm is flat or maybe just a hair of rise to the rear. It’s tracking great. That Dire Straits album is pretty scratchy at the beginning of the first track. No problems.
 
Masonavenut said:
Ok let’s try this out. I chose this record as the first because it was 2 bucks.

Then I went on to Dire Straits to check separation. This vid is from the side but trust me it’s great.

This is my Marantz separates system. A 3250 pre fed by a BelariVP 130 with a Ruby tube. The amp is a 170 out to RSL Elans. It’s a casual little system.

Thanks to Audiofreak71 for the help.
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Looks and sounds great :thumbsup: glad to help with the upload , have fun with the setup and keep spinning!

Audiofreak71
 
Masonavenut said:
No. Very different spindle stock. The prototype is much smaller. And lighter. Which brings me back to my question about the dry bearing. I know the set up we’re used to is wet but this one is dry. The plater and spindle are VERY light. I’m wondering if it needed lube. Was he experimenting there also?
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I have a WTL Amadeus and the bearing well looks very similar. I think the spindle bearing calls for 5w-30 synthetic. 1/3 full so as when the spindle is in position it doesn't overflow. I seem to recall specifically a caution as to avoid over filling for that reason. Is your bearing well a sealed space?

Have you seen the owners manual for the Amadeus? It may have some info that would fit for a prototype. I would think the monofilament line would be best if it were pinned so that it exits along the ball side of the little rubber tube as opposed to the outer edge. It seems as though that would be a more stable geometry. Also regarding the monofilament, the manual was not specific as to its length. It did offer that the distance between the hanger pulley (can't think of what it's called) and the top of the golf ball had a set number, but there were other suggested distances in the manual that didn't work as described. Regardless, your prototype is quite a piece of history.

Once you have the cart mounted on the arm, does the cartridge mounting allow it to pivot? It seems that geometry would be important.
 
Yes, since this is a prototype I assume Mr. Firbaugh wanted to be able to move everything. You can. The headshell is on a center bolt so that you can adjust the angle along with arm length.
On that subject I’ve been researching effective length. I’ve found lengths from 9.0 to 10.750. The older stuff was shorter. For instance my Classic is approximately 9.250.
The LTD arms can be found from 9 to 10.750.

Great idea to check the Amadeus manual.
Bearing seems to be well sealed but I need to look closer at it.
 
@Masonavenut Interesting that the cart mount is rotatable. The Amadeus arm has a specifically fixed position and the idea of overhang and cartridge alignment is addressed with their promotion as to its position not needing adjustment. Then they further offer that "if" one feels compelled to do so......so who knows exactly. I could offer the measurements for the cartridge holder and arm length as well as the angle of the cartridge mount if you feel that might be of use to you.
 
That would be great as I’m guessing right now. It’s lining up great on the protractor, but the more info the better.
Effective length right now is 10.250.
Checked the manual. Synthetic called for, have some and it’s installed.

BTW have moved on to jazz and it’s sounding wonderful. Could be the jazz and quality recordings but I don’t care. Love it.
 
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