That is a very nice selection of p-mounts you have there.
The P-Mount owners club
- Thread starter Bourbon
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That is a very nice selection of p-mounts you have there.
ETI_5000
Super Member
AT-3482P = AT-92ECD (they’re exactly the same cartridge and stylus, bar the model number). Quite a good cartridge for the price, actually, but like all AT cartridges, they need a very low capacitance load (100-200pF total) to get a flat frequency response. Introducing extra capacitance above 200pF always gives them a nasty electrical resonance bump in the treble, and thus makes them sound bright. You need to select preamps and turntables carefully to suit AT MM cartridges, and it’s not that easy, which results in a lot of complaints about the bright sound.
AT MM’s need a low capacitance (50-100pF) phono preamp input, and low capacitance (less than 100pF) turntable output leads, as used in many good turntables post-CD4, to get the required load of less than 200pF. More than a few preamps and amplifiers have more than 200pF input capacitance, so scratch them (Cambridge Audio, for instance - nice amp designs, shame about the designers getting the MM input capacitance so wrong for most cartridges...).
AT MM’s need a low capacitance (50-100pF) phono preamp input, and low capacitance (less than 100pF) turntable output leads, as used in many good turntables post-CD4, to get the required load of less than 200pF. More than a few preamps and amplifiers have more than 200pF input capacitance, so scratch them (Cambridge Audio, for instance - nice amp designs, shame about the designers getting the MM input capacitance so wrong for most cartridges...).
ETI_5000
Super Member
The ME75P takes the (p-mount*) N92E stylus (source: Shure Stylus Replacement Guide 1988 https://www.vinylengine.com/library/shure/stylus-replacement-guide.shtml ), and the upgrade N99E, N104E or N105E styli (getting better as you go higher in number). Some of those should still be available.
* There was, of course, a half-inch mount M92E in the late-1960's, which was quite different and shares the body of the M91 and M93-series, as well as taking their styli, but it’s quite different to the later M92E – Shure messed up the p-mount M92E cartridge numbering.
Thanks.
I also had a Pickering XSP-3000 and an Audio Technica AT331LP. I went through a period there where I tried to find the nicest ones possible (before I ventured to try a standard mount turntable).Missed my shot at an Empire 1080LT, but I still want one of those...
Balifly
Listening
The ME75P takes the (p-mount*) N92E stylus (source: Shure Stylus Replacement Guide 1988 https://www.vinylengine.com/library/shure/stylus-replacement-guide.shtml ), and the upgrade N99E, N104E or N105E styli (getting better as you go higher in number). Some of those should still be available.
* There was, of course, a half-inch mount M92E in the late-1960's, which was quite different and shares the body of the M91 and M93-series, as well as taking their styli, but it’s quite different to the later M92E – Shure messed up the p-mount M92E cartridge numbering.
Thanks for the reviews, Don!
Have to transfer them to my notes.
( Do you have any info on the Grace F8- and F-9 stylus - specification.
I only have the Stereo Review Buyer's Guide for 1984 to go by. )
illegalcolor
New Member
AT450 is in every way superior to AT92ECD, AT3482P, Shure M92E, etc.
I purchased one from that eBay seller and cantilever is slightly corroded, looks like some tiny spikes grown on the surface. It sounds excellent.
Also I purchased ATU4040EP and the one I have doesn't sound excellent. Actually it sounds bad. Probably hardened rubber.
Another one is SS445E/U this one is my favorite, I have seven of them now but so far I listened to only one. One out of seven has a substantially bent cantilever, two with minor bents and four look perfect.
The sound is very satisfying. I used to swap AT92ECD, AT3482P and M92E from time to time because they sound very different and each can offer it's own perspective. Now they have nothing to offer.
SA-708
Appalachian-American
I recently bought a Sony XL-250G cartridge; is it the stock cartridge that came with your turntable? JICO has an elliptical stylus upgrade available on their site.
Welcome to AK! Sometimes rubber suspension loosen up with use, but some folks in this forum have also been experimenting with different rubber treatments.
ScooterMcTav
I know less than I think
Excellent feedback from a new member! Welcome here!
ScooterMcTav
I know less than I think
The ME75P takes the (p-mount*) N92E stylus (source: Shure Stylus Replacement Guide 1988 https://www.vinylengine.com/library/shure/stylus-replacement-guide.shtml ), and the upgrade N99E, N104E or N105E styli (getting better as you go higher in number). Some of those should still be available.
* There was, of course, a half-inch mount M92E in the late-1960's, which was quite different and shares the body of the M91 and M93-series, as well as taking their styli, but it’s quite different to the later M92E – Shure messed up the p-mount M92E cartridge numbering.
Well, I have noticed a number of people on the old interwebs suggesting that an N97xe can be used in an M92e for an instant upgrade. I can't quite make the visual connection - possibly someone here has tried it.
Coincidentally I have an M97xe kicking around in my Dual 1216.
I can try this out when I get home. I believe I have tried it before though and it did not fit. You would want to remove the stabilizer brush. The Shure N 104e will fit for sure and is the same .2x.7 elliptical.
I just tried it and it does fit, though I can see manufacturing tolerances allowing some to fit and others to fit almost-but-not-quite. The plastic cap on the M92E can be popped off easily with fingers if it happens to get in the way. The brush can stay too, but should be used in the playing position unless the turntable allows tracking-force adjustment.
The real point at issue is that the resulting combo sounds like an M97xE, though with the high treble tweaked downward a little more than it already was. If you like the sound of the M97xE, and many do, no problem. If you want a flat treble response, the N104E or N96LT or other Shure p-mount stylus would be preferred. Best of all would be the N111HE which has a hyperelliptical diamond, excellent tracking, a stabilizer brush and a flat response, but those (as well as the brushless version N110HE) are very hard to find indeed.
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Close! Going by the published specs, the RXT6 stylus (R16X) was an N111E that tracked a quarter-gram heavier for the same tracking ability. Sort of an N111EJ.
Yep, the RXT5 is an upgraded M105E with a stabilizer brush instead of a "destaticizer" brush with no damping.
Handy for us, all the non-V15 Shure p-mounts used the same body with only a very few exceptions, and minor exceptions at that.
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Vinylmasters
Super Member
I have both, and prefer the RXT5 personally.
ETI_5000
Super Member
Yes, although I don't think they made any p-mounts. However, here's what I know.
Grace called their 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical stylus, as used on the F9L (and other models), a special ‘Luminal Trace’ or ‘Advanced Luminal Trace’ shape. I believe ‘Luminal Trace’ refers to the fact that it’s a thin (0.2mil) elliptical, that traces records well, while the Advanced Luminal Trace (ALT) refers to ones which track at a lighter tracking force. It’s just a standard elliptical tip shape.
F8-Series – Production ended in the 1980’s, and stylus production in the 1990’s.
F-8D (green colour stylus) 0.7mil conical, 2-5g tracking force, for radio stations etc.
F-8H (red) 0.5mil conical stylus, 1-3g, (2g recommended)
F-8L (transparent), 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical, 0.5-2.5g tracking force (1.5g recommended)
F-8L’10 (transparent/clear), 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical stylus (ALT), 0.5-2.5g (1.5g), 10th anniversary model
F-8C (transparent), elliptical stylus, 0.5-1.5g (1.2g), ‘Classic’ model
F-8M (brown) 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical, 0.5-2.5g (1.8g)
F-8E (yellow/green) 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical, 0.5-2.5g (1.5g), ultra light aluminium alloy cantilever
F-8F (blue) Shibata stylus, 1.0-2.5g (1.5g), ultra light aluminium alloy cantilever
F-8V (grey) 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical stylus (ALT), 1-2g, ultra light tapered aluminium alloy cantilever, last model F8 cartridge produced in 1980’s
F9-series
F-9P = 16.5μm/0.65mil conical, 1-4g tracking force (2.5g recommended) - for professional use – radio stations etc
F-9D = 0.65mil conical, 0.5-2g (1.2g)
F-9L = 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical, 0.5-2g (1.2g)
F-9U = line contact, 0.5-2g (1.2g)
F-9E = 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical, 0.5-2g (1.2g)
F-9F = line contact (described by Grace as ‘Shibata-type’), 0.5-2g (1.2g)
F-9R = 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical, 0.5-2g (1.2g), ruby cantilever
Level II (styli compatible with F8-series)
The Level II was the best cartridge Grace ever made, and was introduced in the mid-80's. Used either Oxygen Free Copper (OFC) wire or Linear Crystal OFC wire (a type of wire from Hitachi, where the copper ‘crystals’ are re-arranged to supposedly improve characteristics – but a cynic like me would say mainly improves Hitachi’s profits from selling very over-priced wire to gullible audiophiles with too much money!). According to Grace, the coil winding machine was reduced in speed for the LC-OFC wire, so as not to disturb the linear crystals! The Level II was apparently an upgraded version of the F8 body, but with improvements such as the interior of the bodies being filled with resin to limit coil mechanical resonance, and the styli are compatible, so Level II styli can be used as an upgrade on F8 cartridges.
Various Level II cantilevers were offered, including (stylus housing colour in brackets):
AL: Aluminium (blue)
RB: Ruby (red)
BE: Beryllium (brown)
BR: Boron (orange)
SA: Sapphire (clear)
RC: Rare Ceramic (green)
Some had nude 0.2 x 0.8mil elliptical tips (I’ve seen one of those on both beryllium and rare ceramic cantilevers for sale), some had (allegedly, according to a member on another audio forum) nude hyperelliptical line contact tips, and the best models all had Namiki Jewel’s superb Micro-Ridge styli, signified by the letters MR following the cantilever material – for instance, BR/MR (Boron Micro-Ridge) or RC/MR (Rare Ceramic Micro-Ridge).
There was also a professional model, the Level II Disco, with a strengthened cantilever (probably of aluminium alloy) for DJ’s, about which I can’t find any info, but I assume they had a higher tracking force.
Most Level II hi-fi models tracked at 1-2g.
F14-series (styli compatible with F9-series)
The F-14 replaced the F9-series, and had similar technology improvements to the Level II. The F-14 styli were compatible with the F-9 cartridges, and had similar features to the Level II styli, so you could upgrade an F-9R ruby cantilever stylus (for instance) with an F-14 BR/MR stylus (Micro-Ridge tip on tapered BoRon cantilever) to get superior performance.
In 2009, Grace apparently made a last production run of styli, for their 60th anniversary, but I believe they’d already sold out in 2008, before they’d even been made. Although Shinagawa Musen still exist and have an office, they no longer manufacture audio-related equipment (allegedly).
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Balifly
Listening
I double checked the fit of the N97xe in my M92. It is tight and will not quite go flush to the cartridge body. It sounds fine however. My comment about removing the brush is that you need to add 1/2 gram of tracking force with the brush down. Most P Mount arms do not offer any or enough adjustment to get the extra 1/2 gram.
ScooterMcTav
I know less than I think
Well I haven’t had time to try he N97xe in mine yet, but have ordered an EVG N92 stylus as a replacement.
I just have too many good classic turntables, and struggle trying to figure out how this one will fit into the rotation.
I just have too many good classic turntables, and struggle trying to figure out how this one will fit into the rotation.
judsonw
Super Member
Sorry for the delay. Was busy and kept forgetting to check. That is one of the two possible stock cartridges. Mine came with the other: VL-45G. I will probably get around to getting a new stylus for it, but for now, I will let the Grado play a bit.