cafe latte
Addicted Member
How much was the Swiss black?
Chris
Thinking about MC cartridges
- Thread starter Billybob09
- Start date
Chris
adnick
Addicted Member
I’ve personally found the 103D a good fit on a medium arm it’s the only 103 I own that’s stock
BillyBatts
ALOHA!
Interesting thread. Thanks to the OP and contributors.
I have only used one brand and model of MC cart since I was in college. I bought a new Yamaha CA-810 amp the summer between my Sophmore and Junior years, and the 810 has an MC input. So I also bought a Yamaha YP-D4 direct drive table and an Ortofon SL20E MC Cart from a local stereo shop close to my college. Big bucks for me back then.
A few years after graduation and with some career money in my pocket, I went back to that same stereo shop and they were closing out that same cart for a whopping discount, so I bought all they had. I am actually now on the very last one decades later, and I expect it to last me until I will no longer be spinning vinyl. I do not use that Yamaha system very often these days, so the MC cart gets very little use.
When I was under high quality headphones with younger ears, I used to believe I could hear a difference between MC and MM. However, I probably would not have gone down the MC Cart rabbit hole if that Yamaha CA-810 had not had an MC input. There are some very good MM carts on the market, and at my age under most listening conditions, I doubt that my ears can currently hear any difference between MM and MC.
I have only used one brand and model of MC cart since I was in college. I bought a new Yamaha CA-810 amp the summer between my Sophmore and Junior years, and the 810 has an MC input. So I also bought a Yamaha YP-D4 direct drive table and an Ortofon SL20E MC Cart from a local stereo shop close to my college. Big bucks for me back then.
A few years after graduation and with some career money in my pocket, I went back to that same stereo shop and they were closing out that same cart for a whopping discount, so I bought all they had. I am actually now on the very last one decades later, and I expect it to last me until I will no longer be spinning vinyl. I do not use that Yamaha system very often these days, so the MC cart gets very little use.
When I was under high quality headphones with younger ears, I used to believe I could hear a difference between MC and MM. However, I probably would not have gone down the MC Cart rabbit hole if that Yamaha CA-810 had not had an MC input. There are some very good MM carts on the market, and at my age under most listening conditions, I doubt that my ears can currently hear any difference between MM and MC.
Sgt Shultz
Addicted Member
I'm 65, born 1/2 deaf in my left ear and my hearing hasn't improved with age lol, and I can easily hear the difference between every cartridge I have. I should mention I've worked in some very noisy environments, for example, construction, machine shops, and a tire mulching facility just to name a few.
I believe you're selling yourself short on just exactly what your ears are capable of discerning.
BillyBatts
ALOHA!
Thanks for the input. When I first got the Yamaha YP-D4 with MC cart, I had a higher end MM Shure Cart on a Pio PL-514 table that I compared side by side with the MC cart as the Yamaha 810 also has a switchable MM input. I happened to have two Yamaha direct to disc demonstration albums that came with my Yamaha Amp and Turntable. I had trouble hearing any difference via loudspeakers. I had to use my high end AKG headphones to discern any real difference.
Today I don't have the ambition to do this kind of comparison, so I will never know for sure. But I can tell you that I have done similar experiments within the last 5 years with high end DAC units vs common lower end DAC units on digital, and my ears bailed out on identifying any real difference between them. But that's digital. I understand that analog may be different. Every human is different in the way we are perceiving the world around us and processing information, and our expectations and preferences can have a bearing on our final opinions.
Regardless, I have the Ortofon MC cart and I still do use it and enjoy it, albeit sparingly.
adnick
Addicted Member
That’s the main reason for my avoidance of claiming how one particular cart, arm, table sounds better or worse than another, just rarely if ever say “X trounces Y”
To a great degree I’m in agreement with you, it doesn’t matter if one can hear as well as the guy next door or as good as 10 years ago; it takes some dedication and/or training to hear subtle changes between tables, tonearms, carts and such.
For some removing other distractions, like turning out the lights, fans and such, will cause one to focus on the music…..for me, it’s the ability to immediately switch between the things I’m comparing, since I’ve got at least 2 tonearms on the majority of my tables it takes a switch.
This switch adds a small bit of noise but it’s the same across each platform(s) selected, so it’s a level playing field,
same speakers, amps and preamp. It’s easy for me to limit the variables and do an apple to apple comparison, Doesn’t matter what equipment anyone else has or what “they hear”
VR
Andy
mprince
Super Member
Back in the day my first MC was a modified (Paragon Pulse bodied) DL-103 on an SL1210 mk2. There's a lot that can be done with that arm to make it work better than just fine with the DL103. KAB sells heavier auxiliary weights for the back of the arm and a roll of lead tape adds even more to make it work. I also added their fluid damper to that arm.
Morgan D
Super Member
Adnick, It seems like you have a lot of experience with the 103 family. Do you think the "D" would be better on my table than the original 103 with the added weight on the headshell ? Do you use VAS for re tip's ?
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adnick
Addicted Member
Actually Bill @BillWojo got me started down the 103 rabbit hole just over a year ago, so I’m a newcomer by any standard. Bill had done extensive homework and historical research on the 103 line and he shared a lot of that with me…
Since then I’ve amassed a fairly good repertoire of 103s and the 103D is my favorite even over my upgraded 103Rs.
However keep in mind I’m not trying to make my 103s into, or sound similar to high end Dynavectors or something like that.
The 103D was the top of the line 103, excluding special editions, so it’s a great choice no matter my opinion
Bill also started me down the SUT hole by lending me his AU 320, now I’ve built several of my own, have one from Ned, and @Redboy, Nate, is building me a Peerless 4629 setup, so be careful
VR
Andy
Since then I’ve amassed a fairly good repertoire of 103s and the 103D is my favorite even over my upgraded 103Rs.
However keep in mind I’m not trying to make my 103s into, or sound similar to high end Dynavectors or something like that.
The 103D was the top of the line 103, excluding special editions, so it’s a great choice no matter my opinion
Bill also started me down the SUT hole by lending me his AU 320, now I’ve built several of my own, have one from Ned, and @Redboy, Nate, is building me a Peerless 4629 setup, so be careful
VR
Andy
adnick
Addicted Member
flavio81
Turntable technician
The Exact is
a) Way overpriced for what it is
b) Far from the ultimate technical achievement on MM cartridges (the ultimate is maybe the Technics EPC-100CMK4)
and
c) You can get better MM cartridges like the AT-VM740ML for less price (!)
Rega is a great company when they are making tonearms and (arguably) turntables.
Thanks for having the courage to speak out loud.
Yes, however in some cases the 14KHz-18KHz resonance, which would be artificially masked on a correctly-loaded MM cartridge, is giving a false sensation of "transparency".
I still think cartridges should always be low impedance, as MC cartridges are. It's the electrically correct way to do it.
Certainly not to be found with my Dynavector rated +/- 1 db full band.
https://www.dynavector.com/products/cart/e_20x2.html
I find that a 500 ohm load presents the most neutral balance. My preamp offers switchable loading so that I was able to try different values. I have many recordings in both vinyl and CD on the Windham Hill label which makes very high quality recordings. I did some testing with both sources playing the same content so that I could easily compare the two.
flavio81
Turntable technician
You are showing quoted specs, not actual measurements.
A quick google finds a sample of an Actual measurement:
The resonance peak is very evident (5dB).
QED.
Source: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...g-azimuth-with-a-pc-and-soundcard.1905/page-2
flavio81
Turntable technician
@E-Stat
Complement to my above post: The FR curve is very flat for most of the range, so it SHOULD sound transparent in vocals etc.
But so is a good MM like the AT-540ML, inexpensive too:
Source: https://www.lowbeats.de/test-audio-technica-vm540ml/
Yes, you can pay less money to enjoy the same resonant peak.
Truth is, this is a function of the mechanical system, not of the thing being MM or MC.
Complement to my above post: The FR curve is very flat for most of the range, so it SHOULD sound transparent in vocals etc.
But so is a good MM like the AT-540ML, inexpensive too:
Source: https://www.lowbeats.de/test-audio-technica-vm540ml/
Yes, you can pay less money to enjoy the same resonant peak.
Truth is, this is a function of the mechanical system, not of the thing being MM or MC.
The load used was not stated which renders that graph questionable. Indeed, it does sound a bit bright at higher load impedance values without sufficient damping.
Most importantly, it sounds no brighter than a CD using the same recordings with the 500 ohm load selected.
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I bought two of these (the E version) and I'm currently listening to one going into the phono stage of my SX-1250. I think the setup sounds great, but the only thing I have to compare it to are MM and MI carts including a Nagaoka MP150, AT VM-750SH and Shure V15 III.
If the OP posts a WTB ad, I suspect he'll find someone here willing to resell. In fact, I might resell one once I'm done trying to do a like for like comparison between two of my turntables.