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Thinking about MC cartridges

E-Stat said:
The load used was not stated which renders that graph questionable. Indeed, it does sound a bit bright at higher load impedance values without sufficient damping.

Most importantly, it sounds no brighter than a CD using the same recordings.
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I agree with you that the final ears should decide if the sound is OK or not.
 
One of the fun things about audio is everyone has an opinion, which tells you all you need to know. Context makes a big difference. You can take the same setup and listen to it in different people's houses and it will sound different. Turntables offer many variables from phono cartridges to tonearms to how they are aligned to the turntable ... if it has suspension and how well that is designed ... alignment and setup ... type of platter mat ... cables ... and on and on.

It is obvious to me that there are enough people who like different things that support the many small to large audio businesses out there. I'm sure it's been said more than once ... if you like the sound, that is all that matters. And more importantly, you can enjoy many different setup options, as long as you spend a little time with alignment and setup.

I have been able to dial in cheaper MM carts, like the Audio Technica VM95SH so that it sounds 95% as good as a Dynavector 10x5. Same tonearms, same platter mats ... MM's can be as good as anyone needs. MC's can be rewarding if you have time and budget and are willing to spend time with them to get it right.
 
Blewpernt said:
Well, I definitely don’t hate the Rega Exact like someone else does. Sure, they can be faulted for being weird looking, which they are, but as for what the interior looks like, I mean: who cares?

Lots of cartridges are strange looking if you pop them open.

I don’t buy into the hype about the coils in the Exact being better than the lower models. I think the models in the cartridge range are all the same but for minor changes. The Elys is a Bias with an extra screw hole. The Exact is an Elys but with a nude Ogura Vital diamond.

Now, what is crazy about them is their outlandish prices.
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Decent moving magnets have 4 coils, Rega have two. Decent moving magnets have precisely wound coils with a precise gap, thr Rega is literally a bent hoop of wire that looks like coat-hanger with the coils both wound on it and very rough too. Most moving magnets are maching wound these look hand wound as they are so bad.
When a,stylus moves it should not be able to move fore and aft or spring round rotationally but it can and does in the Rega. It is nuts the cantilever is not glued to the suspension and a tie wire would fix some of these issues too but they don't have one.
They have a very large magnet so big moving mass, I could go on but is this not enough?
Literally the AT95e smokes it and it is way way cheaper. To be honest the at3600 which is 20 bucks smokes it too, way better coils, better suspension, better everything. I will admit the AT3600l has a conical stylus and the Rega has an fine line ( what they call it), but the 0.5 conical on the at3600 is very good and for cheap you can buy a nude black diamond ellipsoid elliptical and take it to the next level.
I really can't see any positives for the rega exact.
Chris
 
Blewpernt said:
Well, geez, I guess I can’t like the Rega Exact or any other Rega moving magnet cartridge either, then. Except that I do anyway.

Plus, they show up all the time on eBay, often for only about $125 people want to get rid of them so bad. They are way livelier than any of those cartridges you mention. I mean, those cartridges are decent, but you do have a tendency to overstate your points and then end up in the woods of untenable extreme opinions and exaggerations. If you showed a little more restraint and stuck to somewhere within the confines of reality, you’d come off a lot more convincing and less, well, blinded by your own opinions.

Those cartridges you mention are probably directly competitive with the Bias, except for price. But Audio-Technica is the Costco of cartridge manufacturers. They have good stuff, but they deal in volume. Not all manufacturers can or should compete with Audio-Technica directly or even try. Audio Technica makes really good stuff, but I have never wanted to be married to one of their cartridges, just like I don’t feel
like eating Costco food all the time, either, even if it is decent and priced right.
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I spend as you know a lot of time around cartridges and I have seen inside of most of them. I have a picture somewhere of a Rega cart with the lid off I will try and find it and you will see I am not overstating anything. There are many ways to make a cart, I have actually made cartridges myself have you? Making a cart (MM) it is not just enough to bend a wire former (like Rega) and wind a couple of rough coils and show a stylus though a suspension gromit and you are done. The stylus needs to move but also be controlled from wobble fore and aft and from rotational movements which the Rega is not. Rega have not even got the basics right on these carts, there are far cheaper carts that are getting it way more right.
Chris
 
All good, thanks, and naff is probably the best word in the English language.
Does the Exact look like the red one (Bias?) inside? If so I’ll retract. I’ve heard a red one. It’s rather bad.
If I was to buy an MM for my own setup it would be an AT-VM540ML. No contest.
 
kbwhaaland said:
All good, thanks, and naff is probably the best word in the English language.
Does the Exact look like the red one (Bias?) inside? If so I’ll retract. I’ve heard a red one. It’s rather bad.
If I was to buy an MM for my own setup it would be an AT-VM540ML. No contest.
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Yes very similar inside.
See the frequency response curve above. There is a similar test someone did over at VE, the same massive droop.
Chris
 
Blewpernt said:
All good stuff, but I still like the Exact. The ones I have heard are punchy, articulate, lively and fun to listen to. Most Audio-Technica I’ve heard are adequate but boring. Even if they are made nicer. Even if they look better.

I care little about what a cartridge looks like on the inside. I don’t have to have built a cartridge to know what I like to listen to any more than I’ve had to have built a car to be able to make an informed decision on buying a car for myself.

To me, the Exact sounds great. It’s not as bad as you say it is. I like mine significantly better than any of those AT cartridges you mention.

We are just going to disagree so there’s no point in beating the dead horse.
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The Exact has a 6dB suckout in the mid highs which is massive. If you like it all good but it is not even close to acceptable flat, see the plots, these are not the only tests there are more that show the same. If you like that sound great, but that suckout is really massive.
Chris
 
It would be nice to se a photo of the AT-VM internals. That digital render is impressive, but it’s just that. They could sell it as an NFT…
 
Billybob09 said:
Hey yall,

Recently got a rega p3 turntable for a steal. Has the original rega bias cart (green one). Was thinking of upgrading to another cart, particularly moving coil. However, i do not have any knowledge of mc carts. Ive heard your preamp must have a mc option. Mine does not. But i have read threads that you can run a high output mc cart with preamps that do not have an mc setting.

Is this true?

Was looking at dropping a few bills on a good cart. Maybe the dynavector 10x5 or 20x2, or an ortofon bronze or black if mc may not be worth it.

Just for further info, i am running bozak b4000s with 2 gas grandson power amps with gas "the bridge" and gas thalia preamp.

Thanks in advance, look forward to seeing what everyone has to say

-Billy
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A few bills won't go very far in LOMC cart land unless you mean a few kilo bills. Before you plop down your cash may want to look into what your current phono stage is capable of handling. If your current phono stage won't handle MC carts, then a few bills budget will need to include some sort of step of device.

As several others have noted, once you go down the LOMC rabbit hole, you better plan on opening your wallet and shelling out multi kilo bucks at a minimum.
 
homebrew said:
Since a majority of MC cartridges use the Shibata or micro line stylus, and that stylus shape is more sensitive to adjustment than elliptical or spherical profiles, then having the ability to adjust VTA, along with SRA and azimuth are important for best performance.
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With the exception of an actual Rega MC cart - which has the three point mounting and perfect VTA
 
I just picked up a new Ania Pro with the Fono MC MK4. The Ania has an Ogura Vital stylus which are very nice. I have a Dynavector 10x5 rebuilt with Ogura Vital. Nice dynamics and range. Of course the 10x5 is high output and I got it years ago when they were still $450. I am waiting for a new phono cable (DIN) before I pull the 10x5 since I have to pull the arm board out ... I can report how much of a difference there is.
 
I've had a few MCs (High output Sumiko Evo III, Dynavector 10x5, low output Demon 103D, Audio Technica OC-9 II).
I'm now quite happy with my moving magnet AT150 mlx and am probably done with moving coils for good.

However, in this hobby you kind of have to try stuff to figure out whether it's for you or not.
 
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