I don't think that Ojas will be at the next Axpona in Chicago. All those speakers are more about the LOOKS rather than the Sound.
Three-Way Horn System w/ PRV D2200Ph Midrange & ZXPC 18x10 Horn
- Thread starter THD+N
- Start date
You mean it is just a front Snoop?
I can relate... I know we beat it to death in another thread, but I'll never miss my turntable or vinyl. I do have a few cassette decks but only to play old archive tapes of a radio show I recorded off-air from Orlando called Sunday Night Vinyl. It was 80 & 90's alternative and progressive. It was awesome. Of all the "old technology" the transducers have/had to be the weakest link in the chain. That's the main reason I sold my JBL D130's and bought modern Celestion 15 " woofers. They do everything the D130 can do, but better by a few magnitudes.
Even the old JBL 075 bullet tweeters are still selling for stupid money and they sound marginal at best. The current JBL/Selenium ST200 bullet tweeter blows it away and it is only $29USD.
I have been experimenting with my "open top hat" midrange/tweeter assembly on top of my ported short horn (in other words: my ported LaScala).
Normally, I have the top hat flush with the front of the horn like a normal LaScala. I was then letting the Pioneer home theater receiver correct for room anomalies, etc and it sounded great. However, today, I moved the open top hat back as far as it would go to physically align the midrange more with the woofer for better time-alignment. It is not exactly aligned but much better. I recalibrated the speakers using the Pioneer MCACC and the imaging appears to be improved significantly.
With the top hat back that far, I have placed egg crate foam on the top of the horn to help alleviate early reflections. Previous REW measurements showed some frequency anomalies and I am sure they are still there. As indicated in many postings and opinions, we appear to be more sensitive to phase changes than frequency response aberrations. This little experiment has proven it to me.
Normally, I have the top hat flush with the front of the horn like a normal LaScala. I was then letting the Pioneer home theater receiver correct for room anomalies, etc and it sounded great. However, today, I moved the open top hat back as far as it would go to physically align the midrange more with the woofer for better time-alignment. It is not exactly aligned but much better. I recalibrated the speakers using the Pioneer MCACC and the imaging appears to be improved significantly.
With the top hat back that far, I have placed egg crate foam on the top of the horn to help alleviate early reflections. Previous REW measurements showed some frequency anomalies and I am sure they are still there. As indicated in many postings and opinions, we appear to be more sensitive to phase changes than frequency response aberrations. This little experiment has proven it to me.
Dave MacKay
Active Member
Photos please.
I must have missed that. It has been over a decade, so I doubt I will find the study, but most people don’t really notice phase changes at all unless it’s in the lower frequencies. When I had my active setup, Roy had us playing with this, and while I could sometimes hear a difference, I could not tell which was “right” by just listening. OTOH, I’m very sensitive to changes in FR.
Gigantic
A big, big love
phase changes, such as those that occur as the result of passive networks, rather than driver polarity "phase," are pretty subtle and unless you're really familiar, they can be hard to detect. My horns were the best speakers I'd ever had before I adjusted the phase with @Cask05 's "zeroth order" quasi-linear filter scheme. With the phase largely sorted, they're now the best speakers I've ever heard. I didn't realize that the soundstage and imaging had been compromised, until it wasn't. similarly, since my amps all have attenuator knobs on them, they will occasionally get out of balance, both right to left, as well as within the speakers themselves. It's not something that I notice immediately, but I find that over time, it just sounds off; finally, I'll be listening to music and just think "this sounds like ****."It's not something my partner hears, but to me, it sounds off. I'll pull out my laptop and mic, and sure enough, there will be a 5dB discrepancy between the 3 amps per channel, or perhaps I'll notice a 3-7dB variance between the right channel, which is in a corner, and the left, which isn't and adjust the balance accordingly. I've found it much more expedient to make those adjustments with the mic, asoften as not, when tuning by ear, I'll end up chasing my tail with adjustments and sometimes find myself making things worse, to the point that I zero everything out and start over. REW and a mic has eliminated that problem, but I still rely on my ears to determine the difference between "right" and "off," the mic and software just shine a light on the correct path, so I'm not feeling my way in the dark.
I have my Pioneer home theater receiver (using it for it's DSP functions mainly) in the tape loop of my preamp so I can switch it "in & out" at the push of a button and it makes a dramatic difference in the imaging and focus. The speakers literally disappear. Simple frequency response changes won't do that (IMO).
Dave MacKay
Active Member
That’s what I thought too.
Gigantic
A big, big love
When you can instantly switch from corrected phase to the uncorrected phase response that a speaker like the LaScala or Klipschorn presents, yes it’s like night and day; once you’ve heard it, you can’t unhear it. That said, most Klipsch-heads and horn aficionados have no idea how bad their speakers truly are. They’re truly awful.
DirtyErnie
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Invidiosulus
Well-Known Member
With a passive it’s hard to get the driver center distance close and be time aligned.
Of course you could flip the LS cab upside down.
Also, try moving the tweeter back to align with the mids.
Soon, before my fall/winter tinker window closes, I do want to flip the bass horn upside down so the "top hat" is closer to the horn mouth. The bottom is fairly beat up where the casters are so I want to get a good piece of plywood and cover the bottom which will now be the top. I need to do a full resto on them, but I'm too lazy.