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Upgrading from KEF Q500

I played with my kef 900's for almost 2 years. Brought home a pair TW 1a's that showed me I had been wasting my time.

You'll only find what YOU want by listening to different speakers. I've had room treatments turn speakers from ho hum to outstanding. There's too much that goes into sound you'll never pin it down without going through it yourself.
 
Yeah. I know
Try it out in your space.
Educate yourself, learn as you go, use forums, read, customize, tweak… wherever you are on that never ending quest, upgraditis is lurking.
 
I was sidetracked figuring out how to switch between my two receivers, both of which feed the same two mains and the sub.

Back into the speaker research again. At some point, I'll have to jump the gun and try something in my space. Depending on where I land in terms of price point, I may wanna tap into the used market. If I pay over a grand for used speakers, though, I better have some conviction. If...
 
I’m having a hard time accepting the low resale value I’m seeing for the KEF Q500. It looks like on average they go for around $400.00, if in good shape (mine is near mint).

I thought I could get a bit more for them, to help me finance whatever I end up replacing them with. Even if I go the used route, it may just pay for a fraction (unless I get lucky or I can be happy with a less high-end option).

It s****! They are good speakers.
 
I’m having a hard time accepting the low resale value I’m seeing for the KEF Q500. It looks like on average they go for around $400.00, if in good shape (mine is near mint).

I thought I could get a bit more for them, to help me finance whatever I end up replacing them with. Even if I go the used route, it may just pay for a fraction (unless I get lucky or I can be happy with a less high-end option).

It s****! They are good speakers.
Even though it sucks, it's still 400 bucks.

The aforementioned Altecs might be a for you thing. JBL would also be on my mind if I'd be in the US (less of those around here on the old continent).

Another thought: I like Tannoy 3 way floorstanders like the D900, DC8, DC10 (I have 615's) and would also reccommend them to you because they deal with awkwardly shaped spaces exceptionally well in my experience. If you'd want to buy something similar new the MoFi speaker range comes to mind. That said Tannoys are not for everyone, so {again..} try before you buy.

I love Focal and KEF, but you have to go too deep into your pocket to get to the models you'd (with thet I mean "I'd" ) want to have.
P.s. I wouldn't go hornloaded if you mean hornloaded in the bass dapartment, hornloaded for HF (directivity) is or rather can be very nice indeed.
 
Not a problem I'd want to have. I doubt if I could find any one pair of speakers that would sound right to me anywhere in that space. It might need some professional advice and plenty of cash.
 
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Even though it sucks, it's still 400 bucks.

The aforementioned Altecs might be a for you thing. JBL would also be on my mind if I'd be in the US (less of those around here on the old continent).

Another thought: I like Tannoy 3 way floorstanders like the D900, DC8, DC10 (I have 615's) and would also reccommend them to you because they deal with awkwardly shaped spaces exceptionally well in my experience. If you'd want to buy something similar new the MoFi speaker range comes to mind. That said Tannoys are not for everyone, so {again..} try before you buy.

I love Focal and KEF, but you have to go too deep into your pocket to get to the models you'd (with thet I mean "I'd" ) want to have.
P.s. I wouldn't go hornloaded if you mean hornloaded in the bass dapartment, hornloaded for HF (directivity) is or rather can be very nice indeed.
No. Not hornloaded for the bass/sub. For HF I meant.
 
Not a problem I'd want to have. I doubt if I could find any one pair of speakers that would sound right to me anywhere in that space. It might need some professional advice and plenty of cash.
I know. I get that. But that’s where I am.
It’s a great space in most other aspects, though, and I won’t move anytime soon, as I won’t likely find better, not in proximity to NYC anyway.

I may have to think of the targeted sound as more of a concert-space like experience, where some réflection and stray sounds may be part be of it, and embrace that.
If it wasn’t for looks and size I’d try a PA-like setup with maybe arrays hanging from the corners. But that’s not gonna happen.

The remotes do help with the overall distribution (dispersion?) of the sound already. With latency and room correction it’s really not bad.
I think the main upgrade I may look for, for the mains, is a bit more umph (even at lower volumes) and a bit less boxiness. Ideally I don’t lose clarity and definition and if I can get away without distortion and unwanted noise, that’d be great.

As tested, having the mid and HF drivers higher up would make a big difference already.
Right now I’m thinking of stand mounts with tall stands, or towers with the drivers higher up. At least one 6” driver (or bigger); sensitivity of 90 dB or better; power handling 10-150W. And maybe horns for the HF (need to test that).

If the above makes halfway sense. Are there any speakers that have these characteristics, that I should consider?

I have come to the convulsion that, given the room situation, I may not be able to take advantage of top high end speakers — from what I understand, most shine at a specific listening spot and require better room conditions to really sing. Therefore I want to limit my budget to 1.4 K (used in good shape, or new). I think I’d regret spending more as the space will just not give me the optimum.

I’m not sure if that all makes sense, but that’s where I am from what I’ve learned so far, from this forum and elsewhere.
Happy to be corrected. I’m still far from being an expert or an audio tech. I learn as I go, and sometimes I’m wrong.

I appreciate any input (as long as they’re not rude or offensive).
 
Even though it sucks, it's still 400 bucks.

The aforementioned Altecs might be a for you thing. JBL would also be on my mind if I'd be in the US (less of those around here on the old continent).

Another thought: I like Tannoy 3 way floorstanders like the D900, DC8, DC10 (I have 615's) and would also reccommend them to you because they deal with awkwardly shaped spaces exceptionally well in my experience. If you'd want to buy something similar new the MoFi speaker range comes to mind. That said Tannoys are not for everyone, so {again..} try before you buy.

I love Focal and KEF, but you have to go too deep into your pocket to get to the models you'd (with thet I mean "I'd" ) want to have.
P.s. I wouldn't go hornloaded if you mean hornloaded in the bass dapartment, hornloaded for HF (directivity) is or rather can be very nice indeed.
I’ll consider to add the mentioned Tannoys back into the list. I read some bad reviews, but like you said, it’s a question of preferences.
I think reviews that mentioned bad build quality or even failures made me shy away from Tannoy. But that’s all relative and may depend on models too.
 
If it were my space, I'd probably move the main system to the loft area and use it for critical listening. I'd get a couple of good wireless powered speakers, place them at different spots, and stream to them directly. It wouldn't be the end all in hi-fi 2-channel sound quality, but it would at least provide decent sound throughout the entire space without the complexity of installing a wired multi-speaker system. Sometimes you have to give in to your surroundings and compromise a bit to accomplish something close to what you want.
 
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If it were my space and if there wasn't room for my system in the loft area, I'd bite the bullet and get a wireless system that included two or three wireless powered speakers and a compatible receiver or integrated amp that can wirelessly communicate with those speakers. It wouldn't be the end all in hi-fi 2-channel sound quality, but it would at least provide room filling sound throughout the entire space without the complexity of installing a wired multi-speaker system. And I'd expect the cost to be a bit higher than the $1400 you've budgeted. Sometimes you have to give in to your surroundings and compromise a bit to accomplish something close to what you want.
You have a point there as far as filling space with wireless speakers.
I did go wireless with my remotes, and I’m fine with that part of my system. I’m using WiFi instead of Bluetooth so I’m not limited to boom boxes, it allows me to use them in a 2 channel configuration with decent enough speakers. It helps fill the space, and the Wiim Pro+ takes care of latency and room corrections.

For the mains I just felt like I had better and more choices with analog/passive speakers. Plus, as intriguing it seemed to go “wireless” you end up with wires to connect the active speakers to a power outlet, annd often the two speakers need to be connected as well. It made sense for the remotes — I was able to get rid of the wires across the room.

The other thing is, I like my receivers. To get an all-in-one receiver with WiFi capabilities and equally good SQ I’d have to fork out over 2K just for the receiver (I seriously considered a Yamaha R-N200A but among other things it was too deep for my shelves). Also, in most cases I won’t be able to easily upgrade DAC and WiFi (which is still evolving technology). And god forbid the receiver needs repair… from what I understand in most cases you’ll have to swap one of the boards (and you’re lucky if they are available — point in case, newer Macs).

So I haven’t given up on analog mains just yet. But who knows. Time will tell.
Maybe I’ll find a good solution with separates sometime in the future, but right now I just want to enjoy my current receivers and if possible not spend a fortune for a speaker upgrade.
 
You have a point there as far as filling space with wireless speakers.
I did go wireless with my remotes, and I’m fine with that part of my system. I’m using WiFi instead of Bluetooth so I’m not limited to boom boxes, it allows me to use them in a 2 channel configuration with decent enough speakers. It helps fill the space, and the Wiim Pro+ takes care of latency and room corrections.

For the mains I just felt like I had better and more choices with analog/passive speakers. Plus, as intriguing it seemed to go “wireless” you end up with wires to connect the active speakers to a power outlet, annd often the two speakers need to be connected as well. It made sense for the remotes — I was able to get rid of the wires across the room.

The other thing is, I like my receivers. To get an all-in-one receiver with WiFi capabilities and equally good SQ I’d have to fork out over 2K just for the receiver (I seriously considered a Yamaha R-N200A but among other things it was too deep for my shelves). Also, in most cases I won’t be able to easily upgrade DAC and WiFi (which is still evolving technology). And god forbid the receiver needs repair… from what I understand in most cases you’ll have to swap one of the boards (and you’re lucky if they are available — point in case, newer Macs).

So I haven’t given up on analog mains just yet. But who knows. Time will tell.
Maybe I’ll find a good solution with separates sometime in the future, but right now I just want to enjoy my current receivers and if possible not spend a fortune for a speaker upgrade.
Well, I can see where you're coming from. It looks like you're back to square one with your main speakers. The truth is that you would have far more relevant speaker options if you could wait until you can increase your budget. :thumbsup:
 
Well, I can see where you're coming from. It looks like you're back to square one with your main speakers. The truth is that you would have far more relevant speaker options if you could wait until you can increase your budget. :thumbsup:
Should I increase the budget right now?
Can I wait?
Will waiting increase my budget?
Is it worth spending a lot more if my space will never allow for top sq (by certain standards) anyway?

If waiting leads to me winning the jackpot and finding and buy a place I like as much as I do the current one, and I have still dough left to invest in my system, sure.
Unlikely, though. Until then I will experiment with a modest budget cap, which will hopefully get me to a modestly improved experience.
 
Should I increase the budget right now?
Can I wait?
Will waiting increase my budget?
Is it worth spending a lot more if my space will never allow for top sq (by certain standards) anyway?
I'd guess maybe to all of those questions. Building an audio system is an ever-evolving experiment. Good luck with yours.
 
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Even though it sucks, it's still 400 bucks.

The aforementioned Altecs might be a for you thing. JBL would also be on my mind if I'd be in the US (less of those around here on the old continent).

Another thought: I like Tannoy 3 way floorstanders like the D900, DC8, DC10 (I have 615's) and would also reccommend them to you because they deal with awkwardly shaped spaces exceptionally well in my experience. If you'd want to buy something similar new the MoFi speaker range comes to mind. That said Tannoys are not for everyone, so {again..} try before you buy.

I love Focal and KEF, but you have to go too deep into your pocket to get to the models you'd (with thet I mean "I'd" ) want to have.
P.s. I wouldn't go hornloaded if you mean hornloaded in the bass dapartment, hornloaded for HF (directivity) is or rather can be very nice indeed.
I got offered a pair of Tannoy Revolution R3 for $600 in decent shape. I was wondering if you know them and what your opinion would be. I’m not sure if they would be an upgrade to the Q500 and the price seems a bit steep to me.
 
I got offered a pair of Tannoy Revolution R3 for $600 in decent shape. I was wondering if you know them and what your opinion would be. I’m not sure if they would be an upgrade to the Q500 and the price seems a bit steep to me.
They are 6 ohm/89db which may tax your Yamaha if pushed too hard. Also, they are rear ported so would need to be 12-18" from the wall to sound best. $600 does seem a bit steep. (A pair recently sold on audiomart for $200)

I'd be looking for sealed, or front ported speakers, with a sensitivity above 90db. The Ascend (that I previously mentioned) are 8 ohm @ 96db; and will get plenty loud without distorting, or taxing your amp. Did I mention that they have an excellent return policy? Give them a call, and you'll probably be able to speak with Dave (the owner) directly. I have, in the past, and he's an extremely nice guy, and very helpful. Of course, he will try to sell you his brand, but may also offer suggestions as to placement, etc. They have sales from time to time, and I'd expect one for Labor Day.
 
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I got offered a pair of Tannoy Revolution R3 for $600 in decent shape. I was wondering if you know them and what your opinion would be. I’m not sure if they would be an upgrade to the Q500 and the price seems a bit steep to me.
Price is steep as Rick mentioned and they will not give you a lot more (if any) significant improvement in terms of sound quality (and placement characteristics) over the KEFs in the first place.

Where are your speakers located now I wonder?
I previously missed the pictures you shared on the first page and have some additional thoughts now I've atually seen your space next to the drawn floorplan.

I'd meditate on listening needs and optimising placement accordingly.
My assumption/approach is that this will lead to re-orienting the speakers to a different location: Firing towards your listening spot (where you listen to music most intently).

You could view that intent-listening-space as the base 'square' and optimise setup and subsequently space for the square that your listening square resembled the most in the linked Cardas guide. As you might be missing a (couple of) walls compared to the Cardas squares a bit of experimentation is needed to dial it in.
Other parts of the living space can be viewed as different 'zones' that either have suboptimal sound (which is true in my case, I listen to reflected sound in the kitchen, but that's totally fine for me whilst cooking). Or if intent listening is also desirable in the 'zones', set up separate systems or secondary speaker pairs (as most amps can run A/B speaker pairs) in other zones..

For reference (more to share that others have to go through certain steps that to reflect on your situation); My floorplan can be viewed as three rectangles oriented like a U with a wide horizontal. I sit in the horizontal most often so the sound dissipates/reflects needlessly into the vertical parts of the U.
Within my 'imaginary' listening square I started setup by adhering to Cardas' guide: https://www.cardas.com/system-setup
Additionally, I've had to:
- Toe the speakers out for better soundstage.
- Realise that moving the speakers away from the wall 'like it should be' actually deteriorates the soundstage.
- Put up more art (canvas) with acoustic fabric on the back of the frame behind me. I've experimented with creating airgaps behind the frames, but that made no difference.
- Accept suboptimal sound in the kitchen (The right vertical part of the U).
- Set up a secondary system in the gaming/dj corner (The left vertical part of the U) and move a closed back cabinet that acted as a space divider away (dj setup in the same location now, but a fabric couch behind that is now the actual space divider).
- Resonating objects: Fill an aluminum doorframe with foam and replace a big metal industrial lampshade for a bamboo one.

I thought i was going to need carpets and heavier drapes but this was not the case at all.
All of it is in essence is playing with resonances and reflections.
 
Price is steep as Rick mentioned and they will not give you a lot more (if any) significant improvement in terms of sound quality (and placement characteristics) over the KEFs in the first place.

Where are your speakers located now I wonder?
I previously missed the pictures you shared on the first page and have some additional thoughts now I've atually seen your space next to the drawn floorplan.

I'd meditate on listening needs and optimising placement accordingly.
My assumption/approach is that this will lead to re-orienting the speakers to a different location: Firing towards your listening spot (where you listen to music most intently).

You could view that intent-listening-space as the base 'square' and optimise setup and subsequently space for the square that your listening square resembled the most in the linked Cardas guide. As you might be missing a (couple of) walls compared to the Cardas squares a bit of experimentation is needed to dial it in.
Other parts of the living space can be viewed as different 'zones' that either have suboptimal sound (which is true in my case, I listen to reflected sound in the kitchen, but that's totally fine for me whilst cooking). Or if intent listening is also desirable in the 'zones', set up separate systems or secondary speaker pairs (as most amps can run A/B speaker pairs) in other zones..

For reference (more to share that others have to go through certain steps that to reflect on your situation); My floorplan can be viewed as three rectangles oriented like a U with a wide horizontal. I sit in the horizontal most often so the sound dissipates/reflects needlessly into the vertical parts of the U.
Within my 'imaginary' listening square I started setup by adhering to Cardas' guide: https://www.cardas.com/system-setup
Additionally, I've had to:
- Toe the speakers out for better soundstage.
- Realise that moving the speakers away from the wall 'like it should be' actually deteriorates the soundstage.
- Put up more art (canvas) with acoustic fabric on the back of the frame behind me. I've experimented with creating airgaps behind the frames, but that made no difference.
- Accept suboptimal sound in the kitchen (The right vertical part of the U).
- Set up a secondary system in the gaming/dj corner (The left vertical part of the U) and move a closed back cabinet that acted as a space divider away (dj setup in the same location now, but a fabric couch behind that is now the actual space divider).
- Resonating objects: Fill an aluminum doorframe with foam and replace a big metal industrial lampshade for a bamboo one.

I thought i was going to need carpets and heavier drapes but this was not the case at all.
All of it is in essence is playing with resonances and reflections.
Thank you! All valid points.
 
I’m having a hard time accepting the low resale value I’m seeing for the KEF Q500. It looks like on average they go for around $400.00, if in good shape (mine is near mint).

I thought I could get a bit more for them, to help me finance whatever I end up replacing them with. Even if I go the used route, it may just pay for a fraction (unless I get lucky or I can be happy with a less high-end option).

It s****! They are good speakers.
The TW 1A's cost me 200 bucks and they replaced Q900's and sounded way better doing it. You have to look at the times we're in too. People are getting tight with their money and for $1200 new 10 year old speakers 400-500 is about right. Keep your eyes open and go through FB market place often as well as CL. Found my Canton Karats 300's on FB MP for 250 and he was a member of AK. They are one of the best I ever had.
 
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