Upgrading from KEF Q500

[Raphaz]

That’s what I do already. Thank you.

 

[Raphaz]

Th

The TW 1A's cost me 200 bucks and they replaced Q900's and sounded way better doing it. You have to look at the times we're in too. People are getting tight with their money and for $1200 new 10 year old speakers 400-500 is about right. Keep your eyes open and go through FB market place often as well as CL. Found my Canton Karats 300's on FB MP for 250 and he was a member of AK. They are one of the best I ever had.

The TW’s caught my attention along the way. Very intriguing given I can get a pair in good shape (ideally recently serviced). From what I gathered some of the TWs seem not the easiest to service or repair.
One of the things I try to prevent when acquiring used gear is unclear conditions, expansive repair, complicated or ongoing maintenance cost and time down the line, as that then would defeat the purpose of buying used. But I can be persistent, and sometimes I get lucky.

 

[Raphaz]

So what’s the skinny on the Ohm rating for speakers in relation to my setup (the recommendation for the R-2000 is 8 Ohms). What exactly happens when I use speakers that are rated at 6 Ohms or 4 Ohms, or when the specs state a range or just a minimum?

Does less Ohms mean the receiver/amp has to work harder? Does it just mean that I have to crank up the volume?
Is that bad for a receiver with 150 WPC @ 8 Ohms like mine? What are the consequences? Overheating? Is it detrimental to the sound quality?

Would be helpful to have a better understanding when hunting for a speaker “upgrade.”

Thank you!

 

[Raphaz]

To be more specific: the R-2000 is rated

• Continuous power (at distortion factor)
  • 8 Ohm: 2x 150 Watt at 0,015%, 2x 155 Watt according to DIN
  • 4 Ohm: 2x 150 Watt at 0,5%
• Dynamic power
  • 8 Ohm:
  • 4 Ohm:

 

[Raphaz]

And for the Nikko 1219 it’s
Power output: 100 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo);
Speaker load impedance: 4Ω to 16Ω

FYI: The R-2000 is what I usually use for the mains but I currently have a switch installed that allows me to switch to the Nikko and compare the two receivers - both freed into the Q500 (8 Ohm).

I guess my question is, given the two receivers, should I restrict my speaker search to speakers with a nominal rating of 8 Ohm only?

 

[rickb119]

I guess my question is, given the two receivers, should I restrict my speaker search to speakers with a nominal rating of 8 Ohm only?

If you're going to be switching between amps, then yes, 8 ohm minimum.

I don't know where you got the above specs for the Yamaha, but it clearly states on the back panel, 8 ohm minimum. A 6 or 4 ohm speaker is going to draw more power than the Yamaha is designed to deliver, which will cause it to overheat and fry the internal components. Maybe not immediately, but over time it will overheat, and destroy your amp. Especially if played at louder volumes (which draws more current, which produces more heat). You might get by with a 6 ohm speaker if the volume was kept reasonably low. Even so, I wouldn't take the chance.

I appears that your only options are to either use 8 ohm speakers, or get a different amp.

 

[Raphaz]

Than

If you're going to be switching between amps, then yes, 8 ohm minimum.

I don't know where you got the above specs for the Yamaha, but it clearly states on the back panel, 8 ohm minimum. A 6 or 4 ohm speaker is going to draw more power than the Yamaha is designed to deliver, which will cause it to overheat and fry the internal components. Maybe not immediately, but over time it will overheat, and destroy your amp. Especially if played at louder volumes (which draws more current, which produces more heat). You might get by with a 6 ohm speaker if the volume was kept reasonably low. Even so, I wouldn't take the chance.

I appears that your only options are to either use 8 ohm speakers, or get a different amp.

Thank you.

I got that from
https://hifi-wiki.com/index.php/Yamaha_R-2000

I was wondering what the confusing 4 Ohm rating line meant.
I guess HiFi Engine is more accurate as it pulls from original brochures.
https://hifi-wiki.com/index.php/Yamaha_R-2000

Tuning range: FM, MW

Power output: 150 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

Frequency response: 5Hz to 50kHz

Total harmonic distortion: 0.015%

Damping factor: 60

Input sensitivity: 0.1mV (MC), 2.5mV (MM), 120mV (line)

Signal to noise ratio: 84dB (MC), 90dB (MM), 100dB (line)

Output: 120mV (line), 1V (Pre out)

Semiconductors: 33 x IC, 7 x FET, 75 x transistors, 70 x diodes, 22 x LED

Dimensions: 540 x 122 x 385.6mm

Weight: 13.3kg

 

[rickb119]

Most amps that are rated @ 4 ohms will produce more power @ 4, than they do @ 8 ohms. How much more is mostly a function of the power supply, and how much current it can supply. I have one amp that's rated at 200w into 8 ohm speakers, and 350w into 4 ohm speakers. Another amp that I have is rated at 200w/400w into 8/4 ohms.

I don't know how attached you are to the Yamaha, but it does greatly limit the speakers you can use.

 

[Raphaz]

Most amps that are rated @ 4 ohms will produce more power @ 4, than they do @ 8 ohms. How much more is mostly a function of the power supply, and how much current it can supply. I have one amp that's rated at 200w into 8 ohm speakers, and 350w into 4 ohm speakers. Another amp that I have is rated at 200w/400w into 8/4 ohms.

I don't know how attached you are to the Yamaha, but it does greatly limit the speakers you can use.

It’s funny and probably in the nature of this hobby, that, when you ask for help and info on specific components (like 2-channel main speakers in this case), you often get suggestions for upgrading or changing other components of your system. I get it. Every component is important and can make a big difference — it’s a never-ending game.
To clarify though, this thread’s purpose was to get help finding a speaker “upgrade” in my current space and set up. At least for now.
So yes, I like the sq of my Yamaha, even though this thing seems to require more maintenance and repairs than I’d like.
Upgrading to a better receiver or separates may be a potential separate thread in the future. And it requires me to think about budget.
But just out of curiosity: Are you saying that the 8 Ohm on my Yamaha is limiting my choices to 8 Ohm speakers (and that there are not as many good speaker options as there would be if my amp/receiver was 4 or 6 Ohm? Or are you saying that 150 WPC is not enough power to drive most decent speakers? I can’t imagine the latter being the case — that 150 WPC is greatly limiting my speaker choices. I read of many audiophiles systems where demanding speakers are driven with low double digit WPC tube amps.
Maybe you meant the combination of power and 8 Ohm?
Can you elaborate a bit more?

But generally, can we focus on speaker choices for my current setup?

Thank you

 

[Raphaz]

Current favorite:
Ascend Acoustics CMT-340SE2
But haven’t decided yet. Still also observing the used market and some other brands.

 

[rickb119]

Are you saying that the 8 Ohm on my Yamaha is limiting my choices to 8 Ohm speakers (and that there are not as many good speaker options as there would be if my amp/receiver was 4 or 6 Ohm?

Yes.

 

[Raphaz]

Yes.

Thank you.

 

[Raphaz]

The R-2000 is back from repair. It was the notorious STK that needed to be replaced. I had them order an extra one, just in case another replacement is needed in the future. They become increasingly harder to find.

Now it’s about readjusting everything and enjoying.
Meanwhile, the speaker hunting continues.

I do start wondering, though, if, in the longer run, I should open myself up to the idea of a newer D class receiver or separates.
It’s just that, from what I hear, quiet often, if one thing fails, a whole board needs to be replaced, and it’s hard to predict how far in the future such boards and components will be available. But that’s not based on serious research on my part yet.
And there’s the debate about D class not being able to reproduce the same sound quality as analog. I’m guessing some of that is coming from early adopters being disappointed when D class designs still needed improvements; and some of it may be just perception or nostalgia. I don’t know.
I’d be curious to learn more about it.
But that’s fodder for a future, separate thread.

On to speaker hunting.

 

[Raphaz]

There it is again: brown noise, ever so slightly, less than before repair, but enough to bother me. Must be something else, can’t be the STK alone?
Whatever it may be, I’m tired of investing time and money in the R-2000 when it lets my down time and again. As good as it may sound when it works properly, it’s not enjoyable and rather painful when it does not.

I have to do some soul search and come up with a budget, but it is very possible that I will invest in D class, dual mono, maybe a NCore X or Purifi based integrated or separates. Not sure. I need to research.

This may then also change the speaker search. I may be more open to different Ohm options.
But that’s for another thread.

 

[Guido57]

A, A/B, or D: good or bad can be found in any. You mention two fairly respectable class D suppliers which would put you above the price level of the cheapest class D. Maybe try a cheap class D just for grins? Lots of class D available in a lot of price ranges these days. Lots to consider. Some day when I have to go down to one system I might try a class D, actually already have one integrated in mind, but for now I've got more than enough A/B amps laying around. Noticed you were looking at a 2019 thread about class D, it has come a long way since then.

 

[Raphaz]

A, A/B, or D: good or bad can be found in any. You mention two fairly respectable class D suppliers which would put you above the price level of the cheapest class D. Maybe try a cheap class D just for grins? Lots of class D available in a lot of price ranges these days. Lots to consider. Some day when I have to go down to one system I might try a class D, actually already have one integrated in mind, but for now I've got more than enough A/B amps laying around. Noticed you were looking at a 2019 thread about class D, it has come a long way since then.

2019 and one from 2023 I believe, yep. That’s why I just started a new thread, to hopefully get more recent D Class info.

 

[Raphaz]

After focusing on other things and some more research, I'm now leaning towards two Fosi V3 monoblocks, plus the Fosi ZP3 preamp.

As for the main speakers, I sold my KEF Q500s.
My favorites right now are the Tekton Uruz (maybe with some minor custom tweaks), but I haven't pulled the trigger just yet.
I still have some other contenders in the running:
- Front-ported Klipsch models, the Epic CF-2, 3 or 4, the Chorus 1 maybe, or something a bit more recent like the R-26F.
- Triangle Antal EZ or Celius 202 (I like the build quality and the looks, and the specs seem decent).
- High-sensitive, front-ported (or downward-firing), vintage Cerwin, Altec, ADS, Celstion, JBL or Infinity may fit the bill, given something in excellent shape for a good price shows up.
- Magnat. Specs and pricing ratios seem attractive — the Transplus 1500 for example. But they are rare in the U.S. (Amazon has them, maybe direct import, not sure), and not many AK users seem to have experience with them. Audiophile specs and looks, but the build quality may not be top-notch, from what I read. I'm not sure what that means. Hard to gauge for me. If anybody has insights, please share.

 

[Raphaz]

But then… by chance I just came across the JTR 465 online. Looks like they can be used with a dedicated base as floor standers. Front-firing, high sensitivity, small footprint and (with grills) acceptable looks. 4 Ohms should be fine with the Fosi V3s.
Has anyone heard them?
Maybe worth a new thread.