• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Vintage speakers/modern speakers

cubdog

cubdog

banging through drywall
What characteristics define vintage and modern speakers? Which of these characteristics set one apart from the another? What aspects of each do you like or dislike? I've used both vintage, modern and early modern designs*, [for lack of a better term], and like all three. I'm just curious what others think of when they say they prefer one type over another. Also, are there vintage designs that more closely approximate modern speakers in SQ? What about the opposite, are there modern speakers voiced to sound like vintage speakers? I can't remember this being discussed before, although surely it has been, and thought it would be an interesting topic. Please everyone, keep this civil. It's not about one being better than the other.

cubdog

*I'm thinking early modern speakers to be early to mid 90s
 
Register to hide this ad
Hey Cubdog, how you doing? Still loving my Takstar's. Vintage speakers to me, any speaker with a 30 watt or less rating. Made before 1970. High db rating used with low wattage amps. Large in size to move more air. Efficient. Modern speakers, low efficiency power eaters. When the industry went solid state, high WPC went from the teens/twenty's to 50/100 or more WPC. You can drive anything with watts out the wazoo and make it sound good. Or can you? Seems like the trend is back to tubes, low WPC and efficient speakers. What is the old saying, if the first watt is bad, why do you need more? On a side note, I still haven't played a round of golf this year, that crap's gonna change!
 
the best thing about newish speakers to me has to do with powered subs and the smaller size of main speakers. (mine anyway). I do have a few large vintage sets though, and I would sacrifice the WAF for a pair of model 19s.
 
iplagolf said:
Hey Cubdog, how you doing? Still loving my Takstar's. Vintage speakers to me, any speaker with a 30 watt or less rating. Made before 1970. High db rating used with low wattage amps. Large in size to move more air. Efficient. Modern speakers, low efficiency power eaters. When the industry went solid state, high WPC went from the teens/twenty's to 50/100 or more WPC. You can drive anything with watts out the wazoo and make it sound good. Or can you? Seems like the trend is back to tubes, low WPC and efficient speakers. What is the old saying, if the first watt is bad, why do you need more? On a side note, I still haven't played a round of golf this year, that crap's gonna change!
Click to expand...

I'm well thank you. I haven't played much either, been having back issues. I did shoot a 79 before it went out. Does that old saying apply to wives as well? :D

cubdog
 
Speaker size and the tolerance for large speakers seems to have changed. I sold a pair of ADS L-400's on Craigslist, and the gentleman that came to buy them mentioned that they were much larger than he thought they would be. I had described them as a small bookshelf speaker. I kind of wanted to show him the L-910's (41x19x17)...
And the smell. :D
 
cubdog said:
*I'm thinking early modern speakers to be early to mid 90s
Click to expand...

My QUAD ESL-63s first went into production in 1983, and were still in production in the '90's. An updated model which is essentially the same is still in production today. Are they vintage or modern? :scratch2:
 
Last edited:
chicks said:
My QUAD ESL-63s first went into production in 1983, and were still in production in the '90's. An updated model which is essentially the same is still in production today. Are they vintage or modern? :scratch2:
Click to expand...

Vintage minus the smell.
 
I like them all, although older or Vintage models are certainly more accessible with the cost being a far less than what they originally cost (for most models). I like the pairing of powerful amps with vintage speakers to see just how differently they perform with gear that is well outside of what their target price would have mated them with when they were first introduced. for example. My Recent acquisition of a pair RDL Acoustics FS-1 ( Roy Allison) Powered by a pair of Aragon Palladium Mono Amps - Those models probably wouldn't even be in the same store let alone used together. The result ? Very impressive sound with my music taste, in my space , to my ears.

Cambridge Soundworks Ensembles were typically demo'd with either a receiver or at best a mid level Carver amp (AV505 or similar). but what if you actually bi-amped them? give the bass modules their own Adcom 555 and do the same for the satellites? and use a Tube pre on the front end. Well they sure don't sound like what I remembered in their store demo room. - Certainly well beyond what would have been sold with them but it's almost as if they needed that kind of set up to perform at a higher level. That's what interesting about older speakers for me. - it's the experimentation and surprise of what they sound like with different equipment.
 
I'm really more interested in examining the differences in sound quality rather than the physical aspects of vintage vs. modern speakers. I realize that dimensions and building materials play a role in determining how a speaker sounds and of course that has to be taken into consideration. I'm surprised at the responses thus far and will be curious to see where this leads. Obviously if we concentrate on the smell, not far.

cubdog
 
cubdog said:
I'm really more interested in examining the differences in sound quality rather than the physical aspects of vintage vs. modern speakers. I realize that dimensions and building materials play a role in determining how a speaker sounds and of course that has to be taken into consideration. I'm surprised at the responses thus far and will be curious to see where this leads. Obviously if we concentrate on the smell, not far.

cubdog
Click to expand...

As in were vintage speakers voiced differently to accommodate the other accompanying hi-fi components and/or music of that era?
 
Pandovski said:
As in were vintage speakers voiced differently to accommodate the other accompanying hi-fi components and/or music of that era?
Click to expand...

I'd assume that would be the case. Even today, who's voicing speakers for the myriad of Electronic music genres, UK Garage, 2step, Drum n Bass, House ( and the 100 or so variations of it), Juke, Dubstep, Funky. I mean the list goes on and on, yet . when I fire up a SKREAM track , or something by Martyn, followed by Coltrane, then Some Afro Cuban Jazz from Aruan Ortiz, or Norah Jones, followed by a classic Infamous Mobb Deep track. I'm pretty impressed by what a pair model 6 or AR4ax can do with that material.

It a long way from Sinatra and Rosemary Clooney yet most if not all of it sounds right at home ( sans the low low LOW bass required for most of the Electronic and dance tunes). I'm sure Kloss, and Allison had a genre in mind and a general idea of what the consumer might be using to power the speakers. Then I come along 35+ years later and throw away the rule book and ignoring that ( 60w max handling ) label and playing frequencies that weren't prominent in popular music when they were voicing their products :) Damn right I'm impressed with What a pair of EPI M-50's can do and it's doing quite well paired with a VAC PA 80/80 tube amp. That's like Doris Day, doing a duet with The Nororious BIG, you can't get an odder pairing than that and while the BIG/DAY pairing is purely based in fantasy it is very possible that the former can actually happen and sound good too.
 
Last edited:
Pandovski said:
As in were vintage speakers voiced differently to accommodate the other accompanying hi-fi components and/or music of that era?
Click to expand...

That wasn't the original premise. As with many topics here there is often a couple of different camps of thought. I'm curious about what sound quality characteristics would entice some to pursue older speakers as opposed to newer designs. Lets take money out of the equation. Plenty of Akers can afford any speaker they wish, within reason, and choose either vintage or new. I'm not debating which is better. I'm curious only from a sound quality perspective, not which is better, just the differences between old vs. newer.

cubdog
 
There is more than one good generation of speaker out there (everyone didn't get that memo) and it began in the 30's. My line is where smaller drivers/computer modeling began to edge in. Which aspects are better with each for me...being a true newb, who's finally beginning to get the ears around things? (These are very general perceptions but they're mine.)

Vintage:
1. Less tight sounding bass is more apparent at "mid level" and a mellower response/timing comes with it. ("Little Brothers" frequently have better quality bass/not as much.....sometimes it's a partial "fail" for the "Big Brothers" and I watch for it.) A modern and quality sub can make you "open your eyes" with how good the smaller ones actually are!
2. Huge mid and high variations are where a signature sound more easily reveals itself.
In the good speaks,details just pop out of a colored background more and still do the job of giving a soundstage that is slightly less directed and has more of a live "wash" to it. (When a certain speaker nails your like with this "old style character"....it's really special to you because of the contrast delivering in the direction you like.)

Modern:
1. Decent detail is there more often than not. Cheap speaks can still have it.
2. Tight bass is there but dies off fast in less expensive stuff with so much turning into just loud, bright and detailed (or not) and lacks cohesion to the point of almost completely loosing any soundstage that was there in the first place. Demands a sub to even begin to rock at volume....you can still hear the highs and mids falling of through it though.
3. Quality/Mid-range and up HT oriented speaks (to your flavor) are the best development in speaker history. I taste and appreciate both (for what they are) with quality modern being fast,precise,your fairly much assured a great soundstage and with better offerings, and 2 channel still smokes with not using a sub.

If it was an "end game choice".... top modern all the way with all things. Expensive and no doubt will end up there....doesn't mean I can't enjoy Dire Straits (flexing truly amazing beauty) through my vintage "real deal" as I'm sitting here.

Edit: Find myself trying to capture some "vintage" in my decent modern..........controls are terrible in all the modern I have. With my vintage I adjust towards "modern".....they let you do it some...a sweet spot I do enjoy and hear that benefit every time it's dedicated listening time.
 
Last edited:
it seems that the question is assuming that a person approaches it from the perspective that based on age (vintage) that there is a definitive sound characteristic difference between older vs. modern speakers. Human hearing hasnt changed ,so its fair to assume that the real difference is in the technology used to design a speaker. Engineers worked with with the same core parameters in mind i'd think, the Audible range of human hearing, range of frequenciences recorded musical instruments can produce, and then the physics for lack of a better word of making the components and cabinet function to achieve an outcome that would inspire the consumer to purchase.

Primary difference now is the accuracy of modern equipment to capture and playback sound and music. Even mastering engineers have to adjust for the differnt playback formats . If your pressing vinyl its a different mastering process than what youd do for digital distribution.

I guess id have to hear if an old Al Jolson record sounds better on the speakers and equipment from that era or if it sounds better on modern speakers and gear.
 
I the MFG or DIY'er got it right in the old days, there is little difference. Yes, there are some long throw drivers that can get lower in smaller enclosures now, and tweeters that really work have maybe gotten more affordable. And, we have different capacitors and resistors available that are lighter and smaller than in days of yore :D

But good sounds are just that. We could make them good sounds in the 1960's (and with enough cash, in the 1950's) and we can make them today. Good is good. If there is a difference, it's that we can do it with smaller enclosures now :smoke:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom