• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Vintage speakers/modern speakers

cubdog said:
You have to stop thinking Best Buy caters to anyone who takes music reproduction seriously. They are no different than any Walmart in this regard. Don't try to equate what these box stores sell to quality audio gear. You should know that being a member of an audio forum. You need to educate yourself, audio wise, before making such broad and ludicrous statements.

cubdog
Click to expand...

Maybe its just me but I'm not seeing the correlation between his post and your response. I missed the broad and ludicrous statements and the part where he suggests that box stores are selling quality audio. Lots of fire , brimstone and finger wagging , so I must have missed something.

Best buy may not be to everyone's liking, they serve the mass consumer market. They have some items in their audio department that would be at home with someone whose looking for something more than a system to fill a space or room with sound. It may be market driven as to what lines they care in which stores though.

Sure, you're not going to find the latest Aragon Iridium there but a person should be able to cobble together a decent system based on some of the gear they sell. They'd have to be sure not to tell any Audio "enthusiast" that they made their purchase at BEST BUY, maybe they can lie and say they got it at Crutchfield instead. :)

Back to vintage though... AR302's in the HOUSE! and gee whiz do they sound great. I don't feel any loss in giving up my AR3a's which also sounded great with the Fisher KX200 and even better with pair of Prima Luna Prologue 7 tube mono amps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ERG
Bostown said:
Maybe its just me but I'm not seeing the correlation between his post and your response. I missed the broad and ludicrous statements and the part where he suggests that box stores are selling quality audio. Lots of fire , brimstone and finger wagging , so I must have missed something.

Best buy may not be to everyone's liking, they serve the mass consumer market. They have some items in their audio department that would be at home with someone whose looking for something more than a system to fill a space or room with sound. It may be market driven as to what lines they care in which stores though.

Sure, you're not going to find the latest Aragon Iridium there but a person should be able to cobble together a decent system based on some of the gear they sell. They'd have to be sure not to tell any Audio "enthusiast" that they made their purchase at BEST BUY, maybe they can lie and say they got it at Crutchfield instead. :)

Back to vintage though... AR302's in the HOUSE! and gee whiz do they sound great. I don't feel any loss in giving up my AR3a's which also sounded great with the Fisher KX200 and even better with pair of Prima Luna Prologue 7 tube mono amps.
Click to expand...

Very nice pair of ARs you got there! :thmbsp:
Just finished reading this thread http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=381049.
 
70's big box speakers with 12 inch woofers and AlNiCo magnets. :thmbsp:

They just have 'that' sound. The sound I like.

I'm sure the new speakers sound great too but I'm not into subs.

I like 12 inch woofers. Sounds just right to me. 10 inch is ok for bookshelf type speakers, in boxes of course.

Let the speakers do the work. And it just sounds right in big box. Maybe an old school sound, Acoustic Suspension or Ported. Both have a different sound.

For me, big box speakers just have a 'depth of sound'. They sound real.
 
Last edited:
cubdog said:
You have to stop thinking Best Buy caters to anyone who takes music reproduction seriously. They are no different than any Walmart in this regard. Don't try to equate what these box stores sell to quality audio gear. You should know that being a member of an audio forum. You need to educate yourself, audio wise, before making such broad and ludicrous statements.

cubdog
Click to expand...

Ouch - the man runs Epicure 3.0's and you tell him to get educated - ease up please :sigh:

He makes a valid point - lots of folks buy speakers at BB or Magnolia inside. These are the folks who do not know what is really happening. But they usually have family issues like in-laws coming, need something to "fill in" and need it now.

I'm guessing here, but BB/Magnolia maybe sells as many speakers as all the high end shops combined :scratch2:

So, numerically that a lot of "modern" speakers which is part of this dialog ...
 
Gone are the days when there were single or small chains that sold high end components. The guy is absolutely right, BB is the only place most people can go to listen to and compare speakers of any kind. And, the best they have is disappointing compared to many "vintage" speakers
 
I live in an area where there are two decent size cities within 60 miles. Only one audio shop other than BB, and they did not have much inventory. Best Buy is all there is available. I would have to go 120+ miles to even get one close to high end shop. Kind of said, living in midfi land - the best stereo I've heard in 15 years is in my house, and while I think it is a nice, vintage system it isn't what most would call high end. Still probably as good as you can get at BB.
 
Last edited:
I try not to do anything at Best Buy but I'm going to stick up for them in this way....the "crap" they sell shows up used in volume. Even though it's not "us", I've set up a lot of "stereo lacking" friends and family with it.....I'll never snub it as it sounds better than "crap" from yesteryear. (Throw poop at me....nice little Polk,Klipsch,Jamo sounds just fine.)

But not in my house....except for the big Polk. (Admire that company and always will.)
 
Best Buy does not have a very good listening environment for auditioning speakers.
 
It's not a good environment for doing much of anything else either.....finding help is like herding cats and they're mostly "label readers" when you do corner someone. (Hell....I can do that!)
 
I had a Jamo S608 floorstanders for a while. Nice solid quality boxes with soft dome and three mid drivers along with the 12" side bass drivers.Weights more than 25kg each. I always felt there is something is missing. Ofc these are not high-end speakers, but they're very well made. After a while I listen lots of modern high end speakers at demo rooms. All of them costs more than 3000$. My budget was tight. Suddenly I found forty years old speakers at thrift. Auditioning was eye-opening experience. They're still singing on my main system. For my taste, they're unbeatable!
 
Here comes a new analogy.

Vintage speakers compared to modern ones are like comparing a 70's movie fight scene to a 00's fight scenes. Imagine Sean Connery beating a bad guy in a James Bond scene, compared to Keanu in The Matrix.

Or a car chase scene with Steve McQuen compared to one with Jason Statham.

Which one do you think gets closer to the realistic experience we perceive in everyday life and which one is too exaggerated?
 
OK so modern music is exaggerated, because its made on equipment that can do it. Try making techno, hip hop or drum'n'bass music with real instruments, not software.

Also sound effects and music in movies has gone on steroids too.

We made it, now we need to reproduce it. So modern day speakers are made to accommodate these new requirements.

Different speakers for different music. If you are into Jazz you just might not invest your money in the LF and HF region and go for higher quality midrange. The instruments used in the music precondition this choice we make.

Modern music and its followers have different requirements from todays gear and manufacturers have adapted. Either you adapt or die.

Most of the modern speakers are sold in stores like BB because catering speakers for audiophiles is a niche market. Normal people are satisfied with the speakers in BB because they are good enough to play modern music. They probably most of them fail at playing more detailed and complex instrumental and vocal music, but that's not what the majority is listening.

Why do we think people need more than a pair of 300$ Jamo floorstanders to listen to Psy - Gangham Style? Or Josh Wink or Plastikman? They don't.

Speakers changed not because technology advanced some huge deal, but because music changed.

Basically all threads of new vs modern are comparing apples and oranges.
 
Technology is allowing people to enjoy music in a much more personalized and mobile way. That's why we don't see an advent or a rediscovery of brick and mortar hifi stores. I think that's one of the most important reasons actually. I have friends who are using good headphones or enjoying music in the car. Is this bad? No, of course not, just as long as they're enjoying the music.

As for brick and mortar stores themselves, I feel bad for anybody who doesn't live in an urban area. I keep discovering new hifi stores through friends every day. There has to be at least almost half a dozen of them within an hours drive, especially if the rumor is true that www.soundstagedirect.com is opening a brick and mortar store for vinyl and gear in Doylestown PA where they're based. That would be FANTASTIC.

Now I don't know about the rest of you guys but you can still listen to docks from Bose, Beats and Sonos at Best Buy, Hhgregg or PC Richards as well as at boutique Apple dealers and other electronics specialty stores. Those units may not cut the mustard for us audiophiles but for regular people they honest to god aren't terrible.

We have to get off of this high horse about how our way is the only way to enjoy music.
 
my vintage speakers actually can handle the new music pretty good weather its dubstep or any of the other stuff with the electronic bass. ive actually ben expermiting with music since i do get tired of the same old stuff. i guess it can be the same in speakers to get tired of the same old vintage speaker i have thought about trying other ones and maybe newer ones but having a low budget makes ithard to try a newer pair.
 
I like my early-mid 50's GE A1-400 pair (w/ A1-406 cabinets)
I like the sound of my early 60's Bozaks, which were factory updated in the late 70's.
I liked the sound of my Saras speakers in the mid 70's
I like the sound of my 1980's ADS and Realistic speakers.
I like the sound of my late 1990's Soliloquy reference towers.
I guess I need some Y2K+ speakers? I only have one listening room to fit it all into, so, something had to give.
 
Pandovski said:
OK so modern music is exaggerated, because its made on equipment that can do it. Try making techno, hip hop or drum'n'bass music with real instruments, not software.

Also sound effects and music in movies has gone on steroids too.

We made it, now we need to reproduce it. So modern day speakers are made to accommodate these new requirements.

Different speakers for different music. If you are into Jazz you just might not invest your money in the LF and HF region and go for higher quality midrange. The instruments used in the music precondition this choice we make.

Modern music and its followers have different requirements from todays gear and manufacturers have adapted. Either you adapt or die.

Most of the modern speakers are sold in stores like BB because catering speakers for audiophiles is a niche market. Normal people are satisfied with the speakers in BB because they are good enough to play modern music. They probably most of them fail at playing more detailed and complex instrumental and vocal music, but that's not what the majority is listening.

Why do we think people need more than a pair of 300$ Jamo floorstanders to listen to Psy - Gangham Style? Or Josh Wink or Plastikman? They don't.

Speakers changed not because technology advanced some huge deal, but because music changed.

Basically all threads of new vs modern are comparing apples and oranges.
Click to expand...

Strangely, my experience has been the opposite. Vintage speakers sound very warm, wooly, and smooth while modern speakers sound more tonally neutral and fast. Though of course I've heard vintage speakers that sounded modern, and modern speakers that sound vintage.

I wouldn't say that hi-fi speaker manufacturers have been influenced much by electronic music. The vast majority of hi-fi speaker enthusiasts are mid age or older, and commonly don't listen to much modern music. I'd say the "speed" of modern speakers comes more from CAD (computer-aided design), exotic materials that allow for stronger magnets and lighter cones, and the growing popularity of hi-fi home theater.

I also wouldn't say electronic music is more "exaggerated", considering how general of a term "electronic music" is. Is some electronic music exaggerated? Yes. However, there are literally hundreds of sub-genres, each very different from the other.

montelatici said:
Gone are the days when there were single or small chains that sold high end components. The guy is absolutely right, BB is the only place most people can go to listen to and compare speakers of any kind. And, the best they have is disappointing compared to many "vintage" speakers
Click to expand...
Many Best Buy stores have Magnolia rooms, where you can find speaker companies like B&W, and Martin Logan. While they don't have the best selection (and most likely horrible setups that don't really do the speakers justice), it is better than nothing. The B&W 685's (which Best Buy sells) is an extremely good speaker when set up halfway decently. I wouldn't really compare them to many vintage speakers because the sound is so different, but they wow'd me more than most vintage speakers I've heard.
I've never liked the "vintage vs. modern" thing because speakers are speakers. Some are good, some are bad, and some are utterly excellent. I think both vintage and modern holds speakers in all three categories. Which is better is more based on taste than anything else.
I think it depends where you are whether you have local audio shops. I'm near RamblinE, and there are tons of little hi-fi shops around me.
 
Last edited:
I define vintage speakers by the technology that was available at the time. Such as no computer simulations until the mid 80s, lower quality tweeters, paper drivers used a lot more commonly, and of course the styling.

Recording techniques and equipment have evolved significantly over the years. Vintage speakers did not have to have as good quality engineering or parts because the music was not as well recorded. Speakers that are highly revealing would be more prone to criticism I imagine because of the fact they would reveal the lower quality recordings. Today, music is recorded in higher quality and the speakers and audio equipment show that. No I am not talking about top 40. There is plenty of good music out there you just have to look for it.

That's how I define vintage versus newer, by the overall quality of the music (and I strictly mean in the studio, not the music itself) available.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom