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Vintage speakers/modern speakers

BMWCCA said:
I'm pretty much old-school audio. I've had the same 15-inch two-way system in my home for over 50-years. My current system is a 4-way with 18-inch woofers in both cabinets, 10-inch mid-range, compression-driver horn for HF and a ring-radiators for the UHF. I'm pretty certain it can do it all.

If a system can be flat from 30Hz to 20kHz then why wouldn't it be able to reproduce any type of music? Isn't the "curve" of different genre built into the mastering? Does a good jazz recording require you to boost the mid-range in a monitor with an engineered flat response? Should a movie soundtrack or hip-hop recording require you to boost the bass if it's already there?

I'm old but not normally easily confused. Not that I disagree with the general discussion of vintage versus modern in this thread but I still think a great speaker can do it all, and many have for many decades. And some continue in this new century to handle anything thrown at them—with aplomb. :thmbsp:

I'm sure to be missing something here . . . :dunno:
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I agree completely, and that has always been my goal in an audio system. If the system can do the whole range (relatively) accurately, the source material shouldn't matter.

Anything else is just buying speakers colored towards your listening preference. To each their own.
 
I really don't see where that sounds any different than the night clubs I use to go to 20 years ago. And before that the Disco clubs where we used to frequent in the late 70's and early 80's.

Maybe you could find some threads of speaker Manufacturers that market and produce speakers that are different as you suggested than what is made for more traditional audiophiles that are geared just for hip hop or rap music.

Edit: You know really I just jumped out there with no knowledge of what young people who are audiophiles use to listen to music with, and I should just learn to read more and learn than jump in with my opinion. The young people might very well have a particular taste in speakers that they know about that is trended to be more inclined to play the kind of music they listen to. Accept my apology for just making an assumption that my opinion was correct.
 
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There are speakers that handle the entire frequency range or other speaker systems that do so with the aid of a sub or subs. Last I checked none of them were sentient beings that could tell what genre you were throwing at them.
 
Ken Boyd said:
I really don't see where that sounds any different than the night clubs I use to go to 20 years ago. And before that the Disco clubs where we used to frequent in the late 70's and early 80's.

Maybe you could find some threads of speaker Manufacturers that market and produce speakers that are different as you suggested than what is made for more traditional audiophiles that are geared just for hip hop or rap music.
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Not exclusively, of course, but I've always thought of Definitive Technologies as that type of company. They build subwoofers into almost all of their mid-level and up speakers, including bookshelf speakers with 10" passives, and center channels with powered subs. My opinion is that those would be perfect for the audiophile slash rap/hip-hop fan.
 
Ken Boyd said:
I really don't see where that sounds any different than the night clubs I use to go to 20 years ago.
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That's a really broad statement in the spirit of "It all sounds the same to me".

But that's ok Ken. You're not a fan of that genre and its just "night club music" to you. No harm done there. To me all speed metal sounds the same. So what? :dunno:

Also calling every post I make nonsense is a bit unfair. :no:

JohnVF said:
There are speakers that handle the entire frequency range or other speaker systems that do so with the aid of a sub or subs. Last I checked none of them were sentient beings that could tell what genre you were throwing at them.
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How much did those cost?
 
BMWCCA said:
Yeah but . . .

The laws of physics haven't changed and neither have human ears, at least not that I've noticed (and ignoring certain piercing types)!
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The most important thing keeps on changing. The human mind.

(mind not brain). :thmbsp:
 
Pandovski said:
That's a really broad statement in the spirit of "It all sounds the same to me".

But that's ok Ken. You're not a fan of that genre and its just "night club music" to you. No harm done there.
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No really my wife and I use to go out all the time to clubs that played trance and old school house music, I loved it, and still have many CD's that I listen.
 
Pandovski said:
I like Sub Focus and I was impressed with the Deadmau5 show in London for the Nokia Lumia opening.

Not linked blindly I assure you.

Doesn't have to be high energy electronic music. It can be calm and mellow like trip hop. It will still be bass heavy and with a smiley EQ. Thats how we like it, us the modernists. :D

Massive Attack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAVUPu7URbc

or

Gus Gus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0dkQ0sHltc
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I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to argue. If you said that modern speakers are more neutral, why are you now arguing that modern EDM is causing modern speakers to have a strong U curve? (AKA less neutral).
Are you arguing that EDM is causing a strong emphasis on bass in consumer-level speakers, but modern hi-fi is still stuck in the mids-focused age of the 70's?
If so, I'd agree somewhat, I'd argue that I prefer a more neutral speaker for electronic music, though that may be because I listen to non-EDM electronic usually.
I'd put bass texture, extension, and speed (to give a clean punch) far above bass power in importance.
 
Pandovski said:
Speaker that plays every music well? There can't be such a thing and there shouldn't be. You can never have too many woofers for techno and hip hop. You can give YG Acoustics worth 300K to a techno fan and he still might go for a stack of Cerwin-Vegas. To him they perform the music he loves better. Despite the price, technology etc.

Is this so difficult to grasp? :dunno:

Rebuttal :beerchug:
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Many speakers play all different types of music quite well. Believe what you will it's not worth my time to argue with you. Your attitude is the only thing I have trouble grasping. I know you think you're a funny guy and I suppose others do as well but I'm tired of shtick.

cubdog
 
I think the bottom line is the preference for accuracy. Some people have it and some people don't, and neither is wrong persay.

Both modern and vintage speakers CAN be accurate, but some of them are colored (some purposely, some not). My opinion is that the colored speakers may be more enjoyable for one or two types of music, or styles of music that use certain techniques or instrumentation, but overall I would prefer to have fully accurate speakers and adjust the tone controls or loudness curve if I want more bass or treble. This is, of course, my preference, and not everyone will share it.

To throw my hat into the ring IE: new driver materials, I think some of the newer driver materials are excellent, like some of the Kevlar woofers B&W and others have used, etc. I have never liked the brassy nature of aluminum tweeters, however, so it goes both ways. Using materials that cause the speakers to last longer is good, in my opinion, but not at the expense of sound quality. For example, if using rubber surrounds means I never have to refoam another set of speakers, good. If it limits the cone excursion or changes the accuracy of the system, I'd rather refoam.
 
Pandovski said:
The most important thing keeps on changing. The human mind.

(mind not brain). :thmbsp:
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The mind, or brain, have nothing to do with measured performance of electrical devices. A speaker capable of linear performance from 30Hz to 20kHz should play any kind of music just the way it was recorded. Are you suggesting that the way "modern" music is recorded makes all older speakers obsolete or that the way modern-music listeners listen to modern music requires them to EQ the bass bias even beyond what the engineers put into the digital file? Has there been an actual change in the response range of a CD or a digital file? Beyond "Loudness Wars" what is the physical functional difference between a music file for your favorite music, with respect to the frequency range, and any other kind of recording?

Linear response is pretty much linear response, to my way of thinking. I don't see that that has changed regardless of what material you pump through a system. :scratch2:
 
Putting myself in place of a person who prefers music like Rap, or house club mix genres of music I guess I might be looking for speakers that have certain attributes over others, so I guess I can understand where Pandovski is going with this. Not agreeing that many vintage speakers are not capable of reproducing Rap or other types of music well, but I have many times pointed out that some of my speakers seem to be better suited for some types of music over other types of music. And I guess since I have always been one to point my preferences about some speakers better for some genres I have no doubt that some speakers would be better suited for handling music that tends to be bass heavy and have a somewhat bright top end.
 
I don't think this premise is valid. Speakers of old and new vary so wildly in design, efficiency, shape, sound, weight, height, etc. etc. etc., that the only think I think you could say differentiates vintage speakers from modern speakers is simply their age.

It may be true that older speakers in general were larger, and that many newer designs incorporate subwoofers, so speakers themselves tend to be smaller, but again, that is just a broad generalization.

I think there have been so many unique speaker designs, in both the past and present, that you have to look more at the design of the particular speaker rather than its age to see how it differentiates itself from others.

Oh, and I am not including the low end appliance speakers that are commonly found at big box appliance stores - those are designed to make explosions sound louder from TV sets, not reproduce quality music.
 
gguillot said:
I don't think this premise is valid. Speakers of old and new vary so wildly in design, efficiency, shape, sound, weight, height, etc. etc. etc., that the only think I think you could say differentiates vintage speakers from modern speakers is simply their age.

It may be true that older speakers in general were larger, and that many newer designs incorporate subwoofers, so speakers themselves tend to be smaller, but again, that is just a broad generalization.

I think there have been so many unique speaker designs, in both the past and present, that you have to look more at the design of the particular speaker rather than its age to see how it differentiates itself from others.

Oh, and I am not including the low end appliance speakers that are commonly found at big box appliance stores - those are designed to make explosions sound louder from TV sets, not reproduce quality music.
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Agreed on most counts. There are still speakers being made that have been available for years; Klipsch Heritage and the CSW Model Six come to mind. Are they vintage or modern? They're still being sold but were designed decades ago...
 
If a speaker company is going to tailor their products to one kind of music genre , that has to be a failed business model .
 
he11fire said:
Agreed on most counts. There are still speakers being made that have been available for years; Klipsch Heritage and the CSW Model Six come to mind. Are they vintage or modern? They're still being sold but were designed decades ago...
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Exactly - which goes back to the fact that what differentiates them is simply their age. I would put one of the classic Klipsch designs up against any speaker produced today in their price range (or even beyond.)
 
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