• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Vinyl cleaning with enzymes

Peterkjl

New Member
Now this one is challenging and I call for help. This textile cleaningsolution contains enzymes, but several other chemical cleaning substances. The solution is of course only added very diluted.

Are there any with knowledge of theese chemical substances who knows if they will dammage the vinyls? I don’t ask for guesses and unexperienced opinions.
224DB420-9F55-4481-89D1-8BB28B861B81.jpeg
 
Register to hide this ad
The chemist @phantomrebel recommended digestive enzyme capsules. I tried Sporicidin for a while to no ill effect. No great effect, either. I no longer bother with enzymes.
 
Welcome to this forum.
A highly respected record cleaner I use has enzymes in them. Their formula is proprietary, so don't expect the maker to reveal what specific ingredients. The correct enzymes are a worthy ingredient in a properly designed and tested record cleaner, so there is that said.

About all I can further comment upon, is the personal recommendation of the use of properly designed cleaners upon your records.

There's been countless threads here about cleaners, and mostly DIY based. It would take you literal years to read through a fraction of them. And this forum is just one of many where such has been bandied about since their conception with countless franken-lab concoctions. My best advice is not to waste such time, just not worth it.

I liken it to the use of properly engineered and properly tested solutions. You wouldn't use a floor cleaner to wash your clothes with, and vice versa, I could cite 100's of examples of the use, or misuse of cleaning products and adapting them for other uses, but will save space that one should get the picture of what I'm saying.

It seems sometimes that no two people agree upon anything such as a record cleaning product, and also sometimes appears that no two people hold the same degree of respect and care of their record collections either.

As well, many are of the belief that such well designed-made cleaners are only overpriced snake oil, and their DIY concoctions are superior. I think with what I've said, you can realize which camp I am in.

I have much money invested in my records and as well my analog components-hardware to take any such risks into uncharted waters.

I'd mention the products I use, but often feel I'm just singing to the choir. That it seems common that others in these forums merely turn around, contact such well established manufacturers only looking for free product with the promise of some positive review.
 
Last edited:
I have a chemical resistance book around here somewhere, it's a few inches thick and will tell you acceptable chemicals to use with plastics. I used to use it alot for designing chemical piping systems using plastic pipes but basically you need to go down the list and cross-reference all of the chemicals. You may be able to find the information on-line now but I'd start there.
 
Enzymes are pretty specific on what they "eat". When I was working at the old soap factory, we had two different kinds that were added to the mix. Those were for stuff on dishes. What is on your records that would require enzymes? If you are thinking of making your own concoction and adding raw enzymes, be very careful. You can be sensitized easily with just one exposure.
 
Thank you for some great responses. My “problem” is that I bought a collection of 4000 classical Lp’s for a very good bargain. It needs cleaning, but the actual cost of specialized cleaning fluid would run up.
The special cleaning fluid for textile with the enzymes is not that expensive, but of course I need to be sure if it will do any damage. If not I expect it to be very effective…
I could try post it on a chemist forum.
 
I frequently acquire classical records from old collections. Because of the close spacing of the grooves and the unusually quiet content therein, these records MUST be scrubbed. There is no elixir that will magically restore them otherwise. The simplest way to clean them is to apply white wood glue (PVA) which, once dry and peeled away, will remove any and all contaminants. However, the glue will leave the record with a static charge which can be relieved by applying a clean wipe moistened with pure alcohol.

I've done hundreds of records with the wood glue method and have found nothing better. But because I'm impatient I normally scrub them using the cleaning solution prescribed in the link above, in part with a submersion in an ultrasonic cleaning tank. This comes a very close second to the glue method but takes more effort. If enzymes are desired, the Sporicidin I mentioned earlier is not expensive if you live in the States, and comes with its own surfactants which in my experience are safe on vinyl. Dilute in clean water to the percentage described on the label and use within the prescribed 2 hour period before the enzymes naturally expire. Any diluted solution that has not been used within that period should be discarded as it will no longer contain any active enzymes.

Good luck and happy listening.
 
I frequently acquire classical records from old collections. Because of the close spacing of the grooves and the unusually quiet content therein, these records MUST be scrubbed. There is no elixir that will magically restore them otherwise. The simplest way to clean them is to apply white wood glue (PVA) which, once dry and peeled away, will remove any and all contaminants. However, the glue will leave the record with a static charge which can be relieved by applying a clean wipe moistened with pure alcohol.

I've done hundreds of records with the wood glue method and have found nothing better. But because I'm impatient I normally scrub them using the cleaning solution prescribed in the link above, in part with a submersion in an ultrasonic cleaning tank. This comes a very close second to the glue method but takes more effort. If enzymes are desired, the Sporicidin I mentioned earlier is not expensive if you live in the States, and comes with its own surfactants which in my experience are safe on vinyl. Dilute in clean water to the percentage described on the label and use within the prescribed 2 hour period before the enzymes naturally expire. Any diluted solution that has not been used within that period should be discarded as it will no longer contain any active enzymes.

Good luck and happy listening.

I don't think I ever read a bigger crock of sh&t in my life! LOL

They have to have some really good stuff to smoke up there in canuckistan.
 
Thank you for some great responses. My “problem” is that I bought a collection of 4000 classical Lp’s for a very good bargain. It needs cleaning, but the actual cost of specialized cleaning fluid would run up.
The special cleaning fluid for textile with the enzymes is not that expensive, but of course I need to be sure if it will do any damage. If not I expect it to be very effective…
I could try post it on a chemist forum.

4000 LPs is IMO quite a substantial collection. Even some record stores don't have that large a quantity in house. I would say it could take weeks just to inspect them all. And literal long months to clean them all if that is your plan? And clean them how? Over a kitchen sink manually, or an RCM, or other methods?

Do you plan on keeping all, or culling through and keeping what you want for whatever specific reasons, such as condition, title, ?

Other questions might be what are the condition of these LPs? A well cared for collection that was from a vinylphile? Or basket cases that are common to be found at a Goodwill Store?

Perhaps you're being overwhelmed by the number count. Probably most of us would, but maybe you're factoring the entire costs up front, and it doesn't have to be that way. Thus actual costs per LP is not prohibitive, even with the best available cleaners.

If I was faced with such a task, I wouldn't be saying to myself that now I have to go out and buy 5 gallons worth of whatever cleaners I needed-wanted. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was Syracuse.

Would you feel comfortable cleaning them all with a glue? How much time are you willing to invest? Years to tackle such a task?

Other questions could be, what value do you place on this collection? What degree of value do you place on your system? What degree of final cleanliness are you willing to live with, or achieve?

I know this doesn't specifically address your questions about enzymes, this is just some other food for thought.
 
Last edited:
I have a chemical resistance book around here somewhere, it's a few inches thick and will tell you acceptable chemicals to use with plastics. I used to use it alot for designing chemical piping systems using plastic pipes but basically you need to go down the list and cross-reference all of the chemicals. You may be able to find the information on-line now but I'd start there.

The problems that may exist with such references, is that many plastics don't have the same compositions as vinyl records do. Sure, there are the basic guidelines to be followed.
 
There's nothing I see wrong with the original poster's inquisitions about cleaners. I could be likely in a similar boat to inquire, ask questions, what would be a basic simple and inexpensive cleaning solution that won't break the bank, and just as importantly, not harm my records.

The questions about enzymes, yes, some companies are using them, but the questions would be what, and in what concentrations? And can such products be acquired by a small end user such as us folks?

Or, if such is even really necessary? That I'd suspect many a very good cleaning products have been made past and present which did not, and do not contain any enzymes.

As one poster has touched upon, and tried the addition of an enzyme product, will such enhance, have no noted effect, or even be a detriment? I might be inclined to think the latter.

It's maybe almost akin to baking an Apple Pie, and saying "well, let me try adding some Molasses, or some Chinese 5 Spice Powder, and let's see how it then tastes? It will likely be a tainted recipe. Same can most likely be said with a simple DIY Record Cleaner.

Any and all cleaner's base component is of course water. A water that has the least amount of solids, and has a reasonable degree of purification will be the best choice, and a good place to start.

The general theme I think, is that usually, "less is more". Throw the kitchen sink into a cleaner, a number of downsides then may exist, such as a poor, or considerably overdone cleaner and then very likely the left behind residues that prove virtually impossible to remove from the Record's Surface.
 
Last edited:
I and others have found that classical records have usually been well cared for. I'd get a record cleaning machine/solution and set out say 5 or 10 records, dust with an original discwasher, play parts of them, and clean if needed. 10 a day and 400 days later you're all done. Sink washing is also better than nothing, I used to do it with hot water, Dawn, and a soft paint brush.
 
No challenge. It’s easy.

The only ingredient that gives me worry is the use of cellulase enzymes. They disassemble paper like record labels. Printing ink partially protects but, eventually, your record labels could start getting soft and fraying. Record covers use coated stock; calendered paper with a greater content of clay so they are more resistant. Do you want to experiment?

The remaining ingredients are safe. They are specific enzymes; ingredients for moisture retention (enzymes need water as a carrier;) low powered acid to repel contaminants & strengthen vinyl and cleaner preservatives to retard unwanted surface growth that need oxygen.

The one problem I see that we do not know the amount, the percentages, of ingredients used in your commercial cleaner.

You are on the right track. It is beyond the scope of this forum to explain enzyme cleaners radically different cleaning processes. But I will touch on a few.

Use the cleaners highly diluted. They are accelerator cleaners. They use contaminants as fuel. Dirt is complex and the cleaner breaks complex dirt. The cleaners help contaminants complete their ‘life-cycle.’ Dirt life completed, they are rendered fractured & dysfunctional so they fall away – rendered back to basic elements, compounds and odd bits.

Enzymes are Mother Nature’s protein keys to unlocking dirt. The proteins are far smaller than dirt so dirt has no defense. Enzymes are Mother Nature’s fail-safe. Every organic cell contain 1,300 dormant enzymes. Yes, you already own them.

The cleaner is like throwing matchsticks into a fireworks factory. Freed, those 1,300 now rebel enzymes overwhelm and ‘feed off’ other contaminants so an instantly an adaptive chain-reaction blooms. Again – dirt falls apart like puzzles parts and float away.

It is automatic cleaning. When the dirt-fuel is completely consumed then cleaning stops.

There is so much more. I’ll just say a couple. These cleaners are biological but the ones we use are not alive: they cannot grow or reproduce. E-cleaners only attack dead organic material so both vinyl is and we are safe. Most are “green.” Concentrated, the cleaner lasts for years. Diluted, best to use within a year.

The problem with enzyme cleaners is that they are too good. They generate a lot of litter. Records will sound noisy. Cleaning records with these cleaners is really a two-step process. A second conventional cleaner has a much easier job of rinsing the aftermath away.

Used correctly, we get the instant return to first-play fidelity. Conical tip cartridges sound like elliptical ones. Elliptical sound like fancy. And fancy ones – why bother? Save money.

So much more but I’ll stop. I use a variety ingredients in my easy & low-cost home-brew enzyme cleaner but do not use paper-destroying enzymes.

Told you it is easy. Convincing the world is much harder!
 
Hey Tobasco, I found your post very interesting and thought-provoking!

Before I ventured into the world of ultrasonic cleaning, my method was in fact using an enzyme cleaner from a company called Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions. I spoke with one of the proprietors there who confirmed that the "Down With Dirty Concentrate" was indeed an enzyme based cleaner that, when mixed in proper ratio with distilled water, was very reliable in breaking up detritus on the record surface as well as in the grooves. Followed by a thorough distilled water rinse and vacuum, this was my principle manner of record cleaning for about 7 years until, as mentioned, I got my ultrasonic setup.

Some of the factors that influenced me towards ultrasonic cleaning were the amount of time it took (far less per record) as well as ultimate effectiveness pertaining to ridding the grooves of foreign matter, allowing for a far more quiet playback in my experience. The enzyme solution, I was told, needed to stay on the record surface at very least 2-3 minutes in order for the enzymes to do their job. This meant applying the solution and then waiting for the requisite time to pass until vacuuming it off, followed by a distilled rinse cycle to suspend any particles that were left by the enzyme action and subsequently that required a vacuuming as well to leave the record as clean (and dry) as possible.

This method worked quite well and I was pretty pleased with things until I arranged for my ultrasonic setup, which in my opinion takes things to an entirely different level. However, that might be at least in part due to my own ignorance as far as how to properly use an enzyme cleaner is concerned. I was just going by what the guy at A.I. had told me as I believed that the manufacturer would likely know the best practices to use their product.

In any case, this entire discussion has had me intrigued from the beginning, wondering why the OP had elected to clean this huge (by my standards anyway) collection using this particular method? Why not clean it ultrasonically? Using a turning machine, such as ETLS's that does at least 8 records at a time it would be possible to make a lot of progress very quickly, ostensibly getting through the entire collection in a very short period of time compared to doing one by one using an enzyme cleaning method. Would the OP perhaps like to comment on their perspectives please? I.e., why not use the ultrasonic method?
 
The problem with enzyme cleaners is that they are too good. They generate a lot of litter. Records will sound noisy. Cleaning records with these cleaners is really a two-step process. A second conventional cleaner has a much easier job of rinsing the aftermath away.
Nice reply! How long long do you allow the enzymes time to work on the Lp?

In brewing beer, the amylase in the malt converts the starch in the kernel to sugar to be fermented by the yeast. In the case of an infusion mash used to brew traditional ales, the conversion process takes between 45-90 mins depending on temperature, fluid concentration and freshness of the malt.

I know that this is not the same as cleaning records, but time is needed for the breakdown of soils. My question is, how much time, in general, and at what temperature for ideal activity?
 
Last edited:
The enzyme solution, I was told, needed to stay on the record surface at very least 2-3 minutes in order for the enzymes to do their job.

Hey Rip, I have the same question.....don't know if you read it, but in my post I stated what the A.I. guy told me but I would like to hear more about it as well.
 
Back
Top Bottom