Vinyl cleaning with enzymes

[markd51]

I've been experimenting with vinyl records since 1989. If vinyl records have not been lying in the attic for 10 years, coffee is not poured in, or they were not taken by hand during a barbecue, then washing will not work miracles. If the plate was stored in an envelope, does not have a layer of dust, and was handled normally, any washing (ultrasound, washing in a special machine) gives nothing noticeable. If there is dirt, it can be washed off in any way. If the user knows how to do something in a simple way at home and almost free. If the user wants to spend money in addition, then you can buy a washing machine. Or place an order for money to the place where this washing machine is.
But in most cases, on old vinyl records, the sound problem is not from dirt, but from wear on the grooves or bad habits - scratches. They cannot be washed off in the washing machine. There is no miracle.
I just want to talk about my experience.

I do take note and even admire the lengths that some have gone to, to try to find and invent a better Mousetrap.

Each and every cleaning process has an effect, some good, some better, and maybe some bad mixed in too, with just as many varying degrees.

And like you, and many others touch upon, the contaminants and also other damages that can be found on records are virtually countless.

I can understand the lengths-efforts one might go, to somehow rejuvenate a one of a kind rare release, or a record personally treasured for perhaps a sentimental value?

Groove wear could of course be chatted about for pages, there's been much debated here over many years.

 

[John James]

I've been experimenting with vinyl records since 1989. If vinyl records have not been lying in the attic for 10 years, coffee is not poured in, or they were not taken by hand during a barbecue, then washing will not work miracles. If the plate was stored in an envelope, does not have a layer of dust, and was handled normally, any washing (ultrasound, washing in a special machine) gives nothing noticeable. If there is dirt, it can be washed off in any way. If the user knows how to do something in a simple way at home and almost free. If the user wants to spend money in addition, then you can buy a washing machine. Or place an order for money to the place where this washing machine is.
But in most cases, on old vinyl records, the sound problem is not from dirt, but from wear on the grooves or bad habits - scratches. They cannot be washed off in the washing machine. There is no miracle.
I just want to talk about my experience.

I've been cleaning records since the mid 70s. I started then using a method much like you describe.

I have since learned there are many different ways to achieve records that are cleaner than before any method was applied.

There is no one way. There are many ways.

You do what makes you happy, as will I.

 

[BlueMountain]

Ok, but does it sound cleaner?

Short answer is yes. On my system with a conical stylus, low-watt tube amplification, and pretty efficient speakers, during critical listening sitting in the sweet spot the difference was greater than I expected, with glue at least halving the noise as compared to US. However, far off-axis or as background music the difference barely registered. Still pretty early impressions, and I’ll update if my takeaway changes.

 

[ripblade]

You're listening to classical with a conical stylus?

Which records are these?

 

[BlueMountain]

You're listening to classical with a conical stylus?

Which records are these?

Not by choice, my denon DL-103r is overdue but I had some time this afternoon to A/B with a stock grado prestige. I used two discs from a NM three disc set of BWV 1001-6 (DG).

 

[ripblade]

Nice! Stereo or mono?

 

[BlueMountain]

Stereo, Milstein from 1975. For whatever reason I can’t seem to get violin from that era to sound good on my system, even though it’s pretty much optimized for strings. I’m starting to wonder if thin, sharp violin was just the style of the time?

 

[ripblade]

Thin and sharp describes the DGG sound from that era. London/Decca are at the other end....warm and rich. Most of the other labels fall somewhere in between.

 

[BlueMountain]

Damn, gtk. What a choice to make during the golden era of hifi

 

[ripblade]

Mind you, I think violin is one of the toughest instruments to reproduce on vinyl, only one that's tougher is the hurdy-gurdy, which always sounds like scratching noises on my gear. Some cartridges are better than others; the non-ferrous coils seem to do better. Cutting levels, too, definitely.

 

[BlueMountain]

I was puzzling over this when I remembered something in David Byrne's excellent book on 20th century music. According to Byrne, a lot of mixing decisions in the 70s were influenced by the way the brain processes high-pitched sounds differently while under the influence of a substance that was very popular at the time in the music industry. I'm just going to put it all down to Bach-themed key parties.

 

[ripblade]

I was puzzling over this when I remembered something in David Byrne's excellent book on 20th century music. According to Byrne, a lot of mixing decisions in the 70s were influenced by the way the brain processes high-pitched sounds differently while under the influence of a substance that was very popular at the time in the music industry. I'm just going to put it all down to Bach-themed key parties.

Are you suggesting the engineers at DG were snorting coke? I suppose it's possible lol. I have a feeling it may have more to do with the equipment they were using to monitor and cut the recording. Speakers back then had larger woofers and were generally warmer sounding. And that period also saw the appearance of high watt SS amps used to drive the cutter head. These were more about power than fidelity. And I think some of the cutting engineers figured if the amp had higher clipping margins then they could cut at a higher level, forgetting that a stylus still has to be able to trace it. Though that last bit maybe goes back to the coke being responsible lol.

 

[BlueMountain]

*Whatever* the reason, it does bring home the fact that even the best restoration efforts may be wasted on some records. So to bring this thread at least partway back around, I’ll say that my various cleaning experiments have brought home what a gargantuan task OP has set himself. In his shoes I’d probably give everything a quick scrub, rinse on a narrowly loaded spindle in an ultrasonic machine (simply to save on distilled. Filtration/recovery an option too), and save my best efforts for the discs that are most likely to benefit from them and get the most play.

Last night I was listening to a wonderfully performed and recorded but badly scratched album. I wanted to get everything I could out of it because the musician was teacher and mentor to a friend of mine, and I love to find such things in the wild. I found I was easily able to convince myself that the the pops and crackles were coming from an imaginary fireplace. I wouldn’t have changed a thing.

 

[ripblade]

Has anyone investigated using any readily-available enzyme cleaners or come up with a home brew yet? I'd like to give one a try but I just can't see why a enzyme cleaner has to be specifically formulated for records.

I've experimented with both but found no evidence of any improvement over the surfactants used in the mixtures. My guess would be any claims to a formula specifically for records is likely to be due to the surfactants used in a low, no rinse concentration.

 

[Aerobat]

I used Phoenix record cleaning solution with a vacuum cleaner with good results. It's marketed as having enzymes.

Edit - just realized I posted the same thing 3 1/2 years ago.

 

[cgallery]

I frequently acquire classical records from old collections. Because of the close spacing of the grooves and the unusually quiet content therein, these records MUST be scrubbed. There is no elixir that will magically restore them otherwise. The simplest way to clean them is to apply white wood glue (PVA) which, once dry and peeled away, will remove any and all contaminants. However, the glue will leave the record with a static charge which can be relieved by applying a clean wipe moistened with pure alcohol.

I've done hundreds of records with the wood glue method and have found nothing better. But because I'm impatient I normally scrub them using the cleaning solution prescribed in the link above, in part with a submersion in an ultrasonic cleaning tank. This comes a very close second to the glue method but takes more effort. If enzymes are desired, the Sporicidin I mentioned earlier is not expensive if you live in the States, and comes with its own surfactants which in my experience are safe on vinyl. Dilute in clean water to the percentage described on the label and use within the prescribed 2 hour period before the enzymes naturally expire. Any diluted solution that has not been used within that period should be discarded as it will no longer contain any active enzymes.

Good luck and happy listening.

I noticed you said "white wood glue," do you have something you prefer over Titebond II?

 

[ripblade]

I noticed you said "white wood glue," do you have something you prefer over Titebond II?

No, just that white glue is most commonly available. I've never tried yellow glue. The glue dries stiffer and harder than run-of-the-mill white glue. I use it in cabinetry when joint movement is a concern. I don't know if the stiffness is an issue with cleaning records but I see Titebond II is frequently recommended. I think it's overkill and wouldn't seek it out specifically if looking for glue just for cleaning records. My first attempt used Elmo's children's glue from the dollar store yet it was good enough for me to buy a jug of store brand white glue.

Whatever you do, DON'T use the stuff called Melamine glue: it's formulated to stick to glossy surfaces and won't peel off records very easily. It remains pliable when dry so likely won't have the hardness needed for pulling out embedded grit or straightening bent horns, either.

 

[cgallery]

No, just that white glue is most commonly available. I've never tried yellow glue. The glue dries stiffer and harder than run-of-the-mill white glue. I use it in cabinetry when joint movement is a concern. I don't know if the stiffness is an issue with cleaning records but I see Titebond II is frequently recommended. I think it's overkill and wouldn't seek it out specifically if looking for glue just for cleaning records. My first attempt used Elmo's children's glue from the dollar store yet it was good enough for me to buy a jug of store brand white glue.

Whatever you do, DON'T use the stuff called Melamine glue: it's formulated to stick to glossy surfaces and won't peel off records very easily. It remains pliable when dry so likely won't have the hardness needed for pulling out embedded grit or straightening bent horns, either.

Thanks. I had tried the Elmer's School white glue but found it brittle during removal. I use Titebond II. I've thought of trying Gorilla Wood Glue but it is actually more expensive than TBII so unless it works better than Titebond, I didn't see the point.

 

[ripblade]

Thanks. I had tried the Elmer's School white glue but found it brittle during removal. I use Titebond II. I've thought of trying Gorilla Wood Glue but it is actually more expensive than TBII so unless it works better than Titebond, I didn't see the point.

Yes, mine was brittle too. I assumed it was freeze/thaw damage but maybe it's something in the formulation. It was more tedious to remove but it still did an impressive job.

Just in case, it's better to buy from a hardware store as the product there will be protected from freeze/thaw damage as it constitutes a defect and should not be sold.