VPI Turntable Owners Thread

[91r100gs]

My new toy:

Looks nice Glenn, enjoy!

 

[TSmith8605]

Anyone have experience with the VPI ADS? I am thinking of getting one to run my old HW-19 II. The HW runs about 2% slow because the pulley diameter is wrong and needs an AC power regeneration box with adjustable frequency to correct the speed error. I have the old VPI PLC that does that but it also introduces hum in the audio signal.

So wondering if an ADS would work here.

Sent this same question to VPI but they have not responded (yet).

Thx.

I ordered an ADS from Music Direct - it has not arrived yet. Hope it works and does not create hum or noise problems.

The HW19 runs 2% slow at 33.3 RPM and about 1.5% slow at 45 RPM so changing speeds currently means removing the little pulley cover, moving the belt and then changing the line frequency setting on the VPI PLC. If the ADS works as I think it will, I can set the speed correction for the two speeds independently with two knobs and then just leave them and also switch speeds with the speed switch on the ADS. So changing speeds and getting the right speed correction will just require flipping the switch. Also, hoping the hum issues from the old PLC are resolved by the ADS.

If the ADS does not work as expected, I'll send it back as Music Direct offers a 60-day satisfaction guarantee.

 

[macster]

Disclaimer I'm a VPI fan boy

The following is a summary of the motor speed variations that I've taken on my Aries 3/ 3 belt TNT pulley/ SDS since 12/14/2015 - 02/03/2020. There are 246 occurrences with incidents such as SDG&E changing the power transfer to L1 on my CB panel losing power.

The variances formulas were set up as follows variance from 33.333 and variance from actual starting speed.
Methodology basically turn it on and let run for 2-3 minutes, record the readout on my PR and then let run until I turned off sometimes anywhere from 2 -10hrs and take a reading. Basically the aim was to duplicate how I listen which varied.

BTW here is basically what my system looks like

Old --- CJ (good riddance) New Wyred4sound STI1000 and PH1 phonopre.

M~

 

[TSmith8605]

Disclaimer I'm a VPI fan boy

The following is a summary of the motor speed variations that I've taken on my Aries 3/ 3 belt TNT pulley/ SDS since 12/14/2015 - 02/03/2020. There are 246 occurrences with incidents such as SDG&E changing the power transfer to L1 on my CB panel losing power.

The variances formulas were set up as follows variance from 33.333 and variance from actual starting speed.
Methodology basically turn it on and let run for 2-3 minutes, record the readout on my PR and then let run until I turned off sometimes anywhere from 2 -10hrs and take a reading. Basically the aim was to duplicate how I listen which varied. . .

M~

I'm curious to know how and with what you made these measurements. Do you have post about that?

Thanks,

 

[macster]

I'm curious to know how and with what you made these measurements. Do you have post about that?

Thanks,

If you look at the image of my system you will see that I have a Phoenix Roadrunner the measurements were made with that. The formulas were made in Excel, the baseline specs for the motor were taken from my Aries manual and are as follows.


Specifications:

MINIMUM SPECIFICATIONS: WOW AND FLUTTER – LESS THAN .02

RUMBLE – GREATER THAN 80 db DOWN

SPEED ACCURACY – WITHIN .1%

TOTAL WEIGHT – 60 POUNDS PLATTER RUNOUT - +/- .001 INCH


My driver/focus was speed accuracy per spec. at any given point in time.

Have you boiled your belts?


M~

 

[Mellotronix]

This is my alternate tonearm that I use with a Grado ME+ mono cart. My other arm is a 3D printed wand that I have a Grado Statement Reference 2 mounted on at the moment.

Found one of these Headshells adaptors at musicdirect.com. I think I got the last one in the known universe--outside of purchasing a Cliffwood...

Cart clicks in with amazing precision adding less than .5 mm of VTA and about 1.5 grams of mass with fasteners. Made from aluminum. Expensive at $50, but it's an elegant solution. Brings my resonant frequency to 12.1 hz which is fine. I'm using it with a Project Tube Box DS, but I also have a Sutherland pre that is used for my 3D arm.

The sound is smooth as silk! Amazing cartridge for $150. Better than my 2m mono in just about every way, especially with the new adaptor.

Edit--almost forgot the best feature. It adds THREADED holes for the mounting screws! Love that. Should be a federal law for all cartridges.

 

[beatcomber]

This is my alternate tonearm that I use with a Grado ME+ mono cart. My other arm is a 3D printed wand that I have a Grado Statement Reference 2 mounted on at the moment.

Found one of these Headshells adaptors at musicdirect.com. I think I got the last one in the known universe--outside of purchasing a Cliffwood...

Cart clicks in with amazing precision adding less than .5 mm of VTA and about 1.5 grams of mass with fasteners. Made from aluminum. Expensive at $50, but it's an elegant solution. Brings my resonant frequency to 12.1 hz which is fine. I'm using it with a Project Tube Box DS, but I also have a Sutherland pre that is used for my 3D arm.

The sound is smooth as silk! Amazing cartridge for $150. Better than my 2m mono in just about every way, especially with the new adaptor.

View attachment 1753203 View attachment 1753204 View attachment 1753205

What is the purpose of the adapter?

 

[Mellotronix]

What is the purpose of the adapter?

Threaded holes make mounting and setup a breeze. Rigidity is enhanced similar to the Hana ML with its brass crown which mates to the headshell. The 1.5 grams of added mass may have sonic effects. I do notice a definite tightening of the bass below 180 Hz--I think if you heard a before/after, you'd agree. I can also tell you with 100% certainty that Dylan's strident, piercing harmonica on John Wesley Harding (QRP mono) has been tamed considerably. The aluminum adapter is very likely collecting and dispersing some of these frequencies. There's a harmonic "even-ness" to the Grado ME+ mono that was previously lacking.

Could these things be attributed to other factors? Aside from the mounting and setup advantages, absolutely. I'm always open to alternate explanations.

 

[TSmith8605]

I ordered an ADS from Music Direct - it has not arrived yet. Hope it works and does not create hum or noise problems.

The HW19 runs 2% slow at 33.3 RPM and about 1.5% slow at 45 RPM so changing speeds currently means removing the little pulley cover, moving the belt and then changing the line frequency setting on the VPI PLC. If the ADS works as I think it will, I can set the speed correction for the two speeds independently with two knobs and then just leave them and also switch speeds with the speed switch on the ADS. So changing speeds and getting the right speed correction will just require flipping the switch. Also, hoping the hum issues from the old PLC are resolved by the ADS.

If the ADS does not work as expected, I'll send it back as Music Direct offers a 60-day satisfaction guarantee.

I've done a listening session with the ADS in place and it works as advertised and described. Although I still hear a tiny bit of mechanical hum directly from the ADS when the table is running, it's not too loud and in fact way more quiet than the VPI PLC in that regard. Hum in the signal is very much reduced also and the whole thing is much quieter. So that's good.

 

[beatcomber]

Last night I removed the platter and spindle from my newly acquired Prime Scout and shined a light down into the platter well. There was some oil in there, not a lot, but the scary thing is I saw some dirt floating at the bottom!

I stopped off at an auto supply store and bought a quart of Mobile1 0w40, and then throughly cleaned out the bearing well and spindle, and then added some fresh oil.

Maybe it's my imagination, but backgrounds are quieter now and it sounds a bit richer overall. At the very least, now I don't have to worry about premature wear.

 

[Vintagear]

Last night I removed the platter and spindle from my newly acquired Prime Scout and shined a light down into the platter well. There was some oil in there, not a lot, but the scary thing is I saw some dirt floating at the bottom!

I stopped off at an auto supply store and bought a quart of Mobile1 0w40, and then throughly cleaned out the bearing well and spindle, and then added some fresh oil.

Maybe it's my imagination, but backgrounds are quieter now and it sounds a bit richer overall. At the very least, now I don't have to worry about premature wear.

I'm not sure but if thought the Prime Scout had an inverted bearing, if it does you might want to use a synthetic grease that will stay in place. I think the consistency of Mobil 1 oil is better suited for well type bearings (but I could be wrong).

I use Super Lube #82340 on the inverted bearing of my Scoutmaster and it works great. I bought an inexpensive 10 pack of the tiny tubes on Amazon.

 

[beatcomber]

I'm not sure but if thought the Prime Scout had an inverted bearing, if it does you might want to use a synthetic grease that will stay in place. I think the consistency of Mobil 1 oil is better suited for well type bearings (but I could be wrong).

I use Super Lube #82340 on the inverted bearing of my Scoutmaster and it works great. I bought an inexpensive 10 pack of the tiny tubes on Amazon.

I do appreciate the advice, but the Prime Scout is different from the Scoutmaster with its inverted bearing.

The platter has a center hole, which fits over a spindle with a captured ball bearing at the bottom (like the one shown below), and there is a delrin thrust plate at the bottom of the well.

 

[Vintagear]

I do appreciate the advice, but the Prime Scout is different from the Scoutmaster with its inverted bearing.

The platter has a center hole, which fits over a spindle with a captured ball bearing at the bottom (like the one shown below), and there is a delrin thrust plate at the bottom of the well.

Yeah I wasn't sure about the Prime Scout so it looks like Mobil 1 was the way to go.

Seems like the inverted bearing is only used in the models with the thicker platters (Prime, Prime Signature, etc.). Thanks for confirming.

If you haven't already done it, don't forget to put a drop or two of oil at the collar of the AC motor spindle. In my case I had to remove the pulley to get clear access to the brass collar.

Enjoy your Scout! With basic periodic maintenance like this it should last a lifetime.

 

[beatcomber]

Yeah I wasn't sure about the Prime Scout so it looks like Mobil 1 was the way to go.

Seems like the inverted bearing is only used in the models with the thicker platters (Prime, Prime Signature, etc.). Thanks for confirming.

If you haven't already done it, don't forget to put a drop or two of oil at the collar of the AC motor spindle. In my case I had to remove the pulley to get clear access to the brass collar.

Enjoy your Scout! With basic periodic maintenance like this it should last a lifetime.

Thanks! Using a toothpick, I added a couple of drops of oil to the opening a the top of the motor.

 

[Bigboi33]

I'm not sure but if thought the Prime Scout had an inverted bearing, if it does you might want to use a synthetic grease that will stay in place. I think the consistency of Mobil 1 oil is better suited for well type bearings (but I could be wrong).

I use Super Lube #82340 on the inverted bearing of my Scoutmaster and it works great. I bought an inexpensive 10 pack of the tiny tubes on Amazon.

Vintagear,

Thanks for the recommendation on this.
I ran out of the VPI "Magic Lube" and so I've been looking for something suitable for my bearing.
Hoping this will work in a pinch, until I am able to get a new supply of "Magic Lube".
Do you feel this works better or the same as the stock lube?

 

[Pio1980]

Marc M. recommended 30W motor oil for my HW-19 spindle bearing.

 

[Mellotronix]

I'm considering an ADS for my Prime Scout as well. I've measured its speed many times using strobe discs and various apps. It varies from dead on to 33.45 RPM. Haven't measured it at 45 RPM yet. It seems that when its cool and dry in my studio, it likes to run fast. Moving the position of the motor doesn't change the speed, but moving the drive belt to the upper position on the platter and motor spindle does slow things down.

I appreciate the information provided above. It's time to oil my bearing, and I should probably lube the motor as well. My lifter/cueing device needs to be recharged frequently using 100 AWG silicon lube. It's like silly putty. It just disappears.

The system was dead quiet for about 10 months, but I've recently noticed that there is some low level noise in the 80Hz region. Motor vibration--I can feel it. Some dealers are shipping the Prime Scout with the Prime motor--I might take a look at that option or maybe even a signature motor.

Overall, the turntable is outstanding. The issues I've mentioned are very minor in the grand scheme of things. With the 3D printed tonearm, it's capable of playback with lots of energy, dynamic range, and powerful bass. It will easily handle mid to upper end MC cartridges, but it's really sweet with a low output Grado moving iron pickup. I'm using a Hana ML, Grado Statement Reference 2 and a Grado ME+ mono mounted on a separate non-3D arm. This thing has exceeded anything I could have imagined when I purchased it a year ago!

 

[Vintagear]

Vintagear,

Thanks for the recommendation on this.
I ran out of the VPI "Magic Lube" and so I've been looking for something suitable for my bearing.
Hoping this will work in a pinch, until I am able to get a new supply of "Magic Lube".
Do you feel this works better or the same as the stock lube?

Honestly, I think it's the same thing but I could be wrong. I will say that the Super Lube works fantastic, you won't be disappointed. The ten tiny tubes could last a very long time because IMO all you need is about 1/2 a tube per application.

I purchased my Scoutmaster used and when I re-lubed it (as described below) below I was able to move the belt one notch up on the pulley (meaning the platter had less resistance) to keep the same speed plus my speed was much more consistent (currently using the KAB Speed Strobe).

This is my process:
I cleaned all of the old grease completely off of the bearing as well as inside the hole in the platter (this is a good time to inspect the thrust plate in there). Once done, you have to be careful that you don't leave a stray fiber or particle in there. I actually vacuumed the hole in the platter to ensure that the suction would pull anything loose out. Then of course, a visual inspection of both the upright bearing shaft and ball with a magnifying lens (if you see circular Saturn-like rings around the tip of the BB it may be time to replace it). Finally, apply a dab of the Super Lube on the tip and outer edge of the ball bearing (but don't over do it). Whatever extra grease you put on it will slide down the bearing shaft when you install that patter.

I figure I'll go through that process every six months or so.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pio1980]

Two points to keep an eye on from a long time VPI owner.
1) Keep the inverted spindle bearing lubed with white lithium grease or similar. I'd suggest every 6 months. Once the grease moves away from the ball/thrust plate interface, you are drilling into the thrust surface. Neither the ball nor the thrust plate are easily serviceable by the owner although the ball CAN be replaced with effort.
2) The spike on the tonearm pivot can get blunted or bent over slightly. Do not lube this! Just make sure it remains sharp and straight.

Great table!

How about lubing the thrust with moly paste?

 

[JamVal]

I'm not a VPI owner. I'm looking at a locally available HW-19 (first version, not a II, III etc.). It has a Sumiko arm, I assume the Premier MMT and what the owner is calling a Track Lab Prestige Black 2 cartridge unused. I think he means a Grado, I've never heard of Track Lab.

Anyhow, not knowing anything about VPI, what's the expert opinion on this set up? I'd love to ask about value, but know it's not the right forum.

Currently I own some direct drive decks; Kenwood KD-3070, Pioneer PL-530, Sony PS-4750, and Technics SL-D205 (D202).
Cartridges; AT-3600L, AT95E, AT14Sa, ADC G-U, Pickering XSV3000, Shure M93E, Empire SLM444