VPI Turntable Owners Thread

[Vintagear]

I'm considering an ADS for my Prime Scout as well. I've measured its speed many times using strobe discs and various apps. It varies from dead on to 33.45 RPM. Haven't measured it at 45 RPM yet. It seems that when its cool and dry in my studio, it likes to run fast. Moving the position of the motor doesn't change the speed, but moving the drive belt to the upper position on the platter and motor spindle does slow things down.

I appreciate the information provided above. It's time to oil my bearing, and I should probably lube the motor as well. My lifter/cueing device needs to be recharged frequently using 100 AWG silicon lube. It's like silly putty. It just disappears.

The system was dead quiet for about 10 months, but I've recently noticed that there is some low level noise in the 80Hz region. Motor vibration--I can feel it. Some dealers are shipping the Prime Scout with they Prime motor--I might take a look at that option or maybe even a signature motor.

Overall, the turntable is outstanding. The issues I've mentioned are very minor in the grand scheme of things. With the 3D printed tonearm, it's capable of playback with lots of energy, dynamic range, and powerful bass. It will easily handle mid to upper end MC cartridges, but it's really sweet with a low output Grado moving iron pickup. I'm using a Hana ML, Grado Statement Reference 2 and a Grado ME+ mono mounted on a separate non-3D arm. This thing has exceeded anything I could have imagined when I purchased it a year ago!

View attachment 1762736 View attachment 1762738

Don't rely on "phone" apps for speed. IME they're not accurate. Use something like the KAB Speed Strobe or the Phoenix Engineering Road Runner to get a better idea of speed variance.

I'm surprised that the motor position doesn't affect the speed. Try boiling the belts for 15 seconds to see if that makes a difference.

As for motor noise, if you're sure it's from the SAMA itself put some isolation under the pod, like a mouse pad to see if that helps. Since the uni-pivot can pick up ultra minute vibrations (which IMO is a good thing), you might want to try this test first, especially if you've made any changes since the low level noise increased . Turn off the motor and drop the stylus on a stationary record. If you hear a hum level increase then you may have to address isolation issues. If not, then by all means take a look at the bearing situation because maybe that is where your noise is coming from. Don't rule anything out- cables, location, etc..

Good luck!

 

[beatcomber]

I'm considering an ADS for my Prime Scout as well. I've measured its speed many times using strobe discs and various apps. It varies from dead on to 33.45 RPM. Haven't measured it at 45 RPM yet. It seems that when its cool and dry in my studio, it likes to run fast. Moving the position of the motor doesn't change the speed, but moving the drive belt to the upper position on the platter and motor spindle does slow things down.

I appreciate the information provided above. It's time to oil my bearing, and I should probably lube the motor as well. My lifter/cueing device needs to be recharged frequently using 100 AWG silicon lube. It's like silly putty. It just disappears.

The system was dead quiet for about 10 months, but I've recently noticed that there is some low level noise in the 80Hz region. Motor vibration--I can feel it. Some dealers are shipping the Prime Scout with the Prime motor--I might take a look at that option or maybe even a signature motor.

Overall, the turntable is outstanding. The issues I've mentioned are very minor in the grand scheme of things. With the 3D printed tonearm, it's capable of playback with lots of energy, dynamic range, and powerful bass. It will easily handle mid to upper end MC cartridges, but it's really sweet with a low output Grado moving iron pickup. I'm using a Hana ML, Grado Statement Reference 2 and a Grado ME+ mono mounted on a separate non-3D arm. This thing has exceeded anything I could have imagined when I purchased it a year ago!

View attachment 1762736 View attachment 1762738

Mine runs very slightly fast too, but it’s not noticeable.

 

[beatcomber]

How about lubing the thrust with moly paste?

That’s what I use on the inverted bearing of my Braun PS-500, as specified in the owner’s manual.

 

[Man in Cave]

I do appreciate the advice, but the Prime Scout is different from the Scoutmaster with its inverted bearing.

The platter has a center hole, which fits over a spindle with a captured ball bearing at the bottom (like the one shown below), and there is a delrin thrust plate at the bottom of the well.

Thanks for posting this, beatcomber. My Prime Scout is coming up on six months old and I'd like to clean and lube the bearing down there.

MIC

 

[bobins08]

I'm not a VPI owner. I'm looking at a locally available HW-19 (first version, not a II, III etc.). It has a Sumiko arm, I assume the Premier MMT and what the owner is calling a Track Lab Prestige Black 2 cartridge unused. I think he means a Grado, I've never heard of Track Lab.

Anyhow, not knowing anything about VPI, what's the expert opinion on this set up? I'd love to ask about value, but know it's not the right forum.

Currently I own some direct drive decks; Kenwood KD-3070, Pioneer PL-530, Sony PS-4750, and Technics SL-D205 (D202).
Cartridges; AT-3600L, AT95E, AT14Sa, ADC G-U, Pickering XSV3000, Shure M93E, Empire SLM444

I think this is a very fine combination and will be strong competition for your current line up. Of course the price is the key to whether this is a good value. Go for it!

 

[Vintagear]

Mine runs very slightly fast too, but it’s not noticeable.

It shouldn't be running fast. Have you tried boiling the belt?

 

[beatcomber]

Thanks for posting this, beatcomber. My Prime Scout is coming up on six months old and I'd like to clean and lube the bearing down there.

MIC

It's very easy. Just use swabs dipped in 91% isopropryl, and then do the final pass with dry swabs. I recommend using foam swabs instead of Q-Tips, to avoid shedding cotton.

It shouldn't be running fast. Have you tried boiling the belt?

I have not, but I have read about doing that. Is that really a good idea, ie: it won't damage the belt?

 

[beatcomber]

Something just occurred to me...

I bought the table used, and the seller mentioned that "the belt has been replaced with a new VPI belt a few months back." I wonder if the replacement belt is not correct for the Prime Scout?

 

[beatcomber]

It shouldn't be running fast. Have you tried boiling the belt?

I just found Harry W's instructions on how to do this on the VPI Forum.

 

[dosley01]

I'm not a VPI owner. I'm looking at a locally available HW-19 (first version, not a II, III etc.). It has a Sumiko arm, I assume the Premier MMT and what the owner is calling a Track Lab Prestige Black 2 cartridge unused. I think he means a Grado, I've never heard of Track Lab.

Anyhow, not knowing anything about VPI, what's the expert opinion on this set up? I'd love to ask about value, but know it's not the right forum.

Currently I own some direct drive decks; Kenwood KD-3070, Pioneer PL-530, Sony PS-4750, and Technics SL-D205 (D202).
Cartridges; AT-3600L, AT95E, AT14Sa, ADC G-U, Pickering XSV3000, Shure M93E, Empire SLM444

I recently restored an original HW19 with the exact setup.

I liked it so much I sold my VPI Prime. I'm not saying it's as good as a Prime but it was good enough for my needs. I am running a Grado Reference Master 1 on it now. The Black2 is great for a $75 cartridge but this table scales up with a much better cartridge. If you have any questions, please let me know, I'd be happy to help since I've torn this table down to it's frame.

 

[Tedrick]

I'm not a VPI owner. I'm looking at a locally available HW-19 (first version, not a II, III etc.). It has a Sumiko arm, I assume the Premier MMT and what the owner is calling a Track Lab Prestige Black 2 cartridge unused. I think he means a Grado, I've never heard of Track Lab.

Anyhow, not knowing anything about VPI, what's the expert opinion on this set up? I'd love to ask about value, but know it's not the right forum.

Currently I own some direct drive decks; Kenwood KD-3070, Pioneer PL-530, Sony PS-4750, and Technics SL-D205 (D202).
Cartridges; AT-3600L, AT95E, AT14Sa, ADC G-U, Pickering XSV3000, Shure M93E, Empire SLM444

The HW-19 is an excellent platform and responds very well to tweaks and upgrades. An HW-19 Mk III us what started my journey into high quality vinyl playback. I tweaked and upgraded that 'table over several years with a combination of new and used parts, eventually taking it to Mk IV status and beyond.

Since then, I've added 2 more VPI's to my stable, but the HW-19 is still with me and still performing flawlessly.

 

[Tedrick]

I recently restored an original HW19 with the exact setup.

I liked it so much I sold my VPI Prime. I'm not saying it's as good as a Prime but it was good enough for my needs. I am running a Grado Reference Master 1 on it now. The Black2 is great for a $75 cartridge but this table scales up with a much better cartridge. If you have any questions, please let me know, I'd be happy to help since I've torn this table down to it's frame.

Similar to your exoerience, there are a number of members here on AK who have owned the various iterations of the '19, so there is a wealth of knowledge available for tips on tweaking and upgrading this 'table.

 

[markd51]

You table reminds me of my own HW-19, and sitting on an SRA Iso-Base as well.

 

[TSmith8605]

I'm not a VPI owner. I'm looking at a locally available HW-19 (first version, not a II, III etc.). It has a Sumiko arm, I assume the Premier MMT and what the owner is calling a Track Lab Prestige Black 2 cartridge unused. I think he means a Grado, I've never heard of Track Lab.

Anyhow, not knowing anything about VPI, what's the expert opinion on this set up? I'd love to ask about value, but know it's not the right forum.

Currently I own some direct drive decks; Kenwood KD-3070, Pioneer PL-530, Sony PS-4750, and Technics SL-D205 (D202).
Cartridges; AT-3600L, AT95E, AT14Sa, ADC G-U, Pickering XSV3000, Shure M93E, Empire SLM444

I have an HW-19 II and according to the VPI (and another) strobe disk, it runs about 2% slow at 33.3 RPM and 1.5% slow at 45 RPM. I correct this using, at first. the original VPI PLC and now a VPI ADS both of which adjust line frequency of the motor drive. (I get these numbers from the VPI strobe that has a 2% slow band that sits pretty still and also by the amount line frequency adjustment shown on the old PLC dial to get the strobe to read right. Since the speed is off this much and off by different percentages at the two speeds, I concluded the issue is that the pulleys are the wrong diameter.

I bought the table 30+ years ago and aside from that issue, the table has been fine, with no issues. Now with the ADS, at least so far, it sounds better than I ever recall it, noticeably quieter - PLC introduced hum everywhere and so will be tossed.

I'm not sure if the pulley issue applies to the original or other versions but at 2% slow, you should be able to easily tell with a strobe disk.

 

[Mellotronix]

Don't rely on "phone" apps for speed. IME they're not accurate. Use something like the KAB Speed Strobe or the Phoenix Engineering Road Runner to get a better idea of speed variance.

I'm surprised that the motor position doesn't affect the speed. Try boiling the belts for 15 seconds to see if that makes a difference.

As for motor noise, if you're sure it's from the SAMA itself put some isolation under the pod, like a mouse pad to see if that helps. Since the uni-pivot can pick up ultra minute vibrations (which IMO is a good thing), you might want to try this test first, especially if you've made any changes since the low level noise increased . Turn off the motor and drop the stylus on a stationary record. If you hear a hum level increase then you may have to address isolation issues. If not, then by all means take a look at the bearing situation because maybe that is where your noise is coming from. Don't rule anything out- cables, location, etc..

Good luck!

Thank you very much for taking the time to address the issues that I mentioned. The system is dead quiet without the motor running--my Sutherland pre and Yamaha integrated amp are exceptionally quiet and they can easily reveal stray noises. I have a bunch of Sorbothane discs that I can use for the motor. I am using these types of discs under the 2" maple platform that holds the TT and the motor. I can feel that the motor vibration has changed over time. It's still under warranty, so I might just contact VPI and see if they would be willing to upgrade to the Prime which has a heftier housing. Obviously, this would cost a couple of hundred, but could be a good long term solution. The fact that it was so quiet for so long is slightly bothersome because I know what it should be like. I'm ever so slightly worried that it's just going to get worse and transfer the noise through the belt, which is probably impossible, but I'll hear it anyway because my brain works like that

 

[Vintagear]

Thank you very much for taking the time to address the issues that I mentioned. The system is dead quiet without the motor running--my Sutherland pre and Yamaha integrated amp are exceptionally quiet and they can easily reveal stray noises. I have a bunch of Sorbothane discs that I can use for the motor. I am using these types of discs under the 2" maple platform that holds the TT and the motor. I can feel that the motor vibration has changed over time. It's still under warranty, so I might just contact VPI and see if they would be willing to upgrade to the Prime which has a heftier housing. Obviously, this would cost a couple of hundred, but could be a good long term solution. The fact that it was so quiet for so long is slightly bothersome because I know what it should be like. I'm ever so slightly worried that it's just going to get worse and transfer the noise through the belt, which is probably impossible, but I'll hear it anyway because my brain works like that

I think the Prime motor housing may be taller than the Prime Scout SAMA but I'm not 100% sure. Definitely contact VPI and make them aware of your issue, at least you'll have it documented in case it becomes a warranty issue.

In the meantime, I would definitely put a couple of drops of oil down the collar of the motor shaft. This would also be a good time to remove the top cover of the SAMA to ensure that the screws holding the motor are all tight. When you re-install the pulley make sure it is tight and level. Who knows, maybe the issue that's been creeping up is just something getting slightly loose.

I'm like that too, little noises drive me crazy but I hunt them down like a madman...

Good luck, hope you resolve it soon.

 

[beatcomber]

It shouldn't be running fast. Have you tried boiling the belt?

Well, I'll be doggone...

I boiled the belt for 15 seconds, let it cool down and then wiped it with some isopropyl, and now the platter spins at the correct speed when positioned on the center step of the pulley, just like it's supposed to!

 

[macman007]

So I've had this now for about 4 months and I'm very happy with my decision. IMO the Scoutmaster model hits a home run. It also had the features I preferred and was looking for in a BD.

With the Periphery Ring and HRX weight it's a dense 55 lb. beast with a reasonable footprint. Take the time to set it up perfectly then isolate it well and you will be rewarded. I'm using it with VPI's JMW tonearm cables and the cover is a Gingko. Not much to maintain on these, could last forever...

This is a beautiful table! I was on the fence deciding which VPI I wanted to pursue. It was either this Super Scoutmaster or the Prime Signature Rosewood. As the this was going to be my last table and the one to take me into and beyond retirement, I wanted to go big. I chose to pursue the Prime Sig. 3D and unipivot arm. Down the road I really want to add the Fatboy arm, and use the stock 3D arm for a lesser or mono cartridge. This was a hard choice for me since the Super Scoutmaster is considered a well reviewed serious piece of analog kit.

Your decision to upgrade to the stainless bearing bell makes total sense. No doubt this will raise your Super Scoutmaster's stellar performance levels even higher. No easy feat, as this table is already a marvelous example of engineering, design aesthetics, and sonic presentation. Adding the ADS is icing on the cake, as allows the user to switch between normal 33 1/3 Lp's to those audiophile grade 12" 45 RPM offerings. No need to fiddle with moving a belt, plus the added bonus of either speed being locked rock solid accurate, regardless of any variation in mains frequency.

 

[Vintagear]

This is a beautiful table! I was on the fence deciding which VPI I wanted to pursue. It was either this Super Scoutmaster or the Prime Signature Rosewood. As the this was going to be my last table and the one to take me into and beyond retirement, I wanted to go big. I chose to pursue the Prime Sig. 3D and unipivot arm. Down the road I really want to add the Fatboy arm, and use the stock 3D arm for a lesser or mono cartridge. This was a hard choice for me since the Super Scoutmaster is considered a well reviewed serious piece of analog kit.

Your decision to upgrade to the stainless bearing bell makes total sense. No doubt this will raise your Super Scoutmaster's stellar performance levels even higher. No easy feat, as this table is already a marvelous example of engineering, design aesthetics, and sonic presentation. Adding the ADS is icing on the cake, as allows the user to switch between normal 33 1/3 Lp's to those audiophile grade 12" 45 RPM offerings. No need to fiddle with moving a belt, plus the added bonus of either speed being locked rock solid accurate, regardless of any variation in mains frequency.

Thanks! Last year when I was looking to get a VPI a few very helpful guys here brought me up to speed on the previous generation models that I hadn't considered. The info broadened my options and then a SM came up locally so I jumped on it.

It's interesting that you were looking for either a Scoutmaster or Prime Signature. As I became more familiar with the VPI models, I formed an opinion that the Prime Signature is the "new" version of the Scoutmaster but you are the first person I've come across to also make that connection. I had my SM next to the Prime Signature and the regular Prime at the VPI warehouse and you easily see the evolution of the triple layer design and the similarity in mass between the SM & P-Signature. When Harry chose to put the Signature bell on my SM it made me think even more that there's definitely a shared lineage between these two models.

I've been very happy with the SM and will probably stay with it for a long while. The Prime Signature would be the only new model I'd consider if I was going to let it go....or since I'm dreaming maybe something from the reference line .

Enjoy that PS, it's a beautiful 'table!

 

[macman007]

Yea, the Avenger adds the ability swing multiple arms, but you can do the same thing with multiple wands cheaper, provided you don't mind making a few adjustments between arms, primarily VTA and AS if you use it. There are other things but to my eye thats the primary difference. If they sold the PS 3 arm capable, Avenger sales might suffer. The Reference Line is the stuff Dreams (analog anyway) are made of. Selling the PS Rosewood to my other 1/2 was easy peasy, as it has a high WAF. She liked the rosewood and it looks good with Mc gear, which is what we have for the most part.

The VPI family line shares a great deal between each member, the stuff from the last 2 decades anyway, though improvements have been steady. People often bitch and gripe about how VPI keeps coming out with upgrades, moving things around from table to table. To my mind as a turntable-vinyl enthusiast, that is what I want to see in a turntable company, not the same old thing made year after year. I want choices, options, available upgrades, like the Fatboy arm or the ADS. Why on earth would someone complain about that? It's not like VPI doesn't continue to support older models.

They are about a 3 hour drive from me, close enough to pick up anything needed or WANTED in person and have a look around at whats new. When I've emailed Mat, he's typically responded within 24 hours. Can't ask for more than that. Cannot speak to issues others have had historically because I have never had those experiences.

I'm a VPI Fanboy, addicted and proud of it! There are worse things in life, trust me...