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We are doomed

All four of those brands you just mentioned are awful. I tried some Beats one time, they were just awful. Everything was isolated and flat.....

This is sort of the point. You think in a world pressing all of my peers toward better sq, they would [listen up] and notice.

Don't get me wrong, I think all of those are atrocious things too. I gave the beats a shot, the others can only dream of resting on my head - never gonna happen.
 
^ what he said. Beats are just a marketing exercise.

I'm just about the only person I know with a good set-up. All my friends come around to my place just to hear their music - mind you, we don't bother with shitty youtube rips either - on my system. They can tell the difference, but they're usually too busy pissing money away on their girlfriends to ever think of building something decent.

I can name a couple friends with respectable and very respectable systems, but only a couple. Those guys are college friends. The HS friends that are still around enjoy listening to their music at my place but they still don't quite get it. Its still their music! LOL If I played my tunes, they would all leave. What to choose? Haha
 
Fortunately we're all into the same stuff. I bought one of my friends an Iron Maiden vinyl for his 18th (secretly because I knew he'd beg to come over to play it at my place!)
 
Having read most of the thread, I agree that it is a shame that there are so few of us.

Many of my friends (I'm 18) are unfortunately riding the ipod wave, using youtube downloads and 128 kbs MP3's at best.

Luckily, it has succeeded for me to convince some of them to consider Hi-fi. My best friend was pleased when he got a pair of fine B&O speakers to accompany his mediocre JVC surround receiver for playing 256 kbs files (320 and lossless when playing music he got from me).

My ex-girlfriend was surprised to hear the difference between a youtube clip and a type I cassette recorded from an LP on my Beocord 9000, but never adapted it.

My current girlfriend had become very curious about it and asked me to source a system for her. Found a Beogram 8000, supplied with a fine Beomaster 3300 and small B&O bookshelf speakers. She's happy and have found out that the lossless files are better sounding than youtube rips.

Two of my female cousins have also asked me to find systems for them. one Beogram 4002 with a Beomaster 2400-2 and small bookshelf speakers for the oldest, a Beogram 4000 (found one dirt cheap) with a Beomaster 4400 and large 4-way B&O speakers.

All their visiting friends have complimented the cool design and sound of the systems and would consider buying one themselves.

All in all, I feel like I have achieved something: Letting people in my age know that there are better ways to enjoy music out there.
 
Good all you oldies will kick the bucket and I'll be the only one that wants your gear. Of course I'm not that young anymore! I'm 27! When I was 20 I built my first open baffles using klangfilm drivers, driven with a little pp el84 amp from a packard bell console and a pro-ject turntable. Total cost was about $100 from craigslist and thrifts. I had never heard anything good before that. Anyone that truly loves music will seek a better system on their own when their ready. My friends thought I was crazy back then. My friends think I'm crazy now. Truth is I think everyone here is a little crazy! Sometime I know I get too into the gear and forget to just enjoy the music.
 
It's a 'new sound' for a 'new generation'.

Kind of like BSR record changers and sound design all in wonders were the old sound for the old generation. Except that the old sound for the old generation was actually significantly worse fidelity than many of the ipod/earbud listeners are hearing.

I really don't think the younger generation care (not all), in the least, about sound quality, or musical quality.

Funny how things never change. It's the same as it always was. Except today's generation has far more good music available to them than any subsequent generation.

It's the hard core New digital generation now.

Technology rocks.

Every time one of those rap junkies, or goo goo ga ga whatevers, pulls up next to me in my car... Just the beat heavily influenced with SUB woofers. Boom Boom Boom Boom heavily distorted (hope they have hearing protection! They will regret that one).

It's kind of like teens back in the 70s and 80s loading their pioneer home speakers in the back seat and cranking it at 120 dB, isn't it? Those damn youth of today, doing exactly what every generation before them have.

That's what they enjoy. I think. I'm not sure. I really don't understand what they are into, sound wise or musical wise. I can deal with punk, I do understand it and kinda like it myself! But seriously...a few bar chords, bands invented by music companies for profit and telling you what you will buy and enjoy, people singing like it's the early 50s, 'trying to sing beautifully...la la de da. goo goo ga ga music. goo goo ga ga I want my mommie. There just isn't anything there. Maybe I miss understood the question.

I think your mistake is this. You are assuming that the tiny minority of people who cared back when you were young were a majority. They weren't. I have absolutely no idea what you talking about regarding the la la de da stuff?

Digital music over Ipods and stick em in your ears headphones. Hey, cool, every generation needs thier own 'thing'. But seriously folks..I don't really quite understand.

You don't understand that someone wants to listen to music? In the end, that's what the method you are criticizing is providing. You do understand that probably 19 out of 20 people will never understand why you like your 70s speakers and 80s sansui integrated?

Somewhere along the line, something got really mixed up and went totally south. And the younger generation Really enjoys it!!! That's the mindblower!!

This is just silly.

And 'they', the musicians, the musical business, had such great music to build on! Learn from the masters and build on it. No. They went back to the early 50s. It sounds like Connie Francis music to me. Not that there is anything wrong with Connie Francis!
But it's all cool. Just don't play it around me. Please. I just can't handle it. I sound like my father!! haha. There is just nothing there. It's like a blank canvas without paint. but maybe that's what it's all about...blankless. I have absolutely no idea...rock on.

You are hopelessly out of touch with modern music. It's almost tragic. How can you comment on something you are so clearly out of touch with? What inside of you causes you to comment? You heard a car a few times with deep loud bass and therefore the entire generation of young people listen to crap music on crap car stereo systems?

Maybe I'm the only person that thinks this way.

I would lose sleep if I knew there was another.

There is just 'nothing' there, nothing new, no message, no artistic value, nothing. I'm tired of the old rock, it's cool, it's my generations music, but there's just nothing to replace it. It's a real problem for me. So I went all the way back to 1925 Delta blues and Brazilian Jazz. Just trying to keep it real. It's a new world I guess.

You need to hang in the music forums, get past your digital phobia and listen to some pandora and discover what's out there. I have never seen a better time for music in my lifetime and the best of it coming out is in roots style music. Stop shutting down in the face of digital because of some silly misconceptions about digital and listen.

BOTTOM LINE: If they want Ipod and You Tube music...give it to em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If that's what they enjoy and that is what makes em happy...go for it. 'It's thier turn'.

I think I just threw up a little.
 
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Every time one of those rap junkies, or goo goo ga ga whatevers, pulls up next to me in my car... Just the beat heavily influenced with SUB woofers. Boom Boom Boom Boom heavily distorted

You do know that what you hear coming from the car next to you is NOT what they are hearing inside that car, right? It's a matter of acoustics. Bass will travel through barriers that are small compared to its wavelength, treble will not travel through barriers that are large compared to its wavelength. They could have a very good sounding stereo going on inside their car. The fact that all you hear is distorted bass outside is no indication.

The reason you never heard this "back in the day" is because car subs hadn't been born yet. People played music just as loud but blasting a Graco head unit with a power booster through Pioneer TSX-7 deck mount speakers just won't have the bass of a pair of 12" subs. It kept the sound, bad or good, inside the car.

The fact that "they" have better bandwidth and most likely better fidelity sound in their cars does not mean they don't appreciate "their" music as much as a balding guy in his mid 50's sitting in front of his 1970's Pioneer stack listening to Dark Side of the Moon over and over.
 
I didn't start this thread with bashing as the intent : it was tongue in cheek exasperation at the fact that some of my students HONESTLY could not hear the difference between a really low end compressed recording and one that was much better and what that actually meant. Real master woodworkers recoil at the horror that is mass marketed furniture these days ..... and there are a myriad of examples that fit the analogy, usually "the old" being driven out by technology ...... and it is not just about Ludditeism that the enthusiasts lament ..... easy answers are rarely accurate : bashing the new generation is too simple , but so is bashing the bashers ......
 
I also meant to state earlier that I applaud your effort at educating the youngins. Playing various versions (youtube vs. mp3 vs. uncompressed) and telling them what to listen for is much more difficult than simply dismissing the entire generation. I would bet that with a bit more time they'd be able to distinguish the differences. Whether the differences were enough for them to change their listening/purchasing habits is an entirely different discussion.


I do however , still hold that if you say mp3/ compressed / etc is good enough : it isnt REALLY good enough unless you have been made aware of the experience of what it is like when it is better and you STILL choose compressed : otherwise it is mere ignorance speaking .......if you have been versed in and have had the pleasure of a fine vintage and still choose the hooch : more power to you

Excellent point. I made a statement once about a member here who was totally enthralled with his stereo. It was the greatest thing on the planet. Until he added a new piece. Then it was the greatest thing on the planet, even better than before. Then he added another step up the ladder. Once again, the greatest thing on the planet and a night and day difference over the previous greatest thing on the planet. He had never heard better than what he owned at the time. My comment was "he doesn't know how much he doesn't know". I think that is the gist of this thread. We should take it as our mission not to dismiss them but to show them something better (whatever that might mean) and then let them decide where to go.
 
I think I have the genesis (pardon the pun / big Gabriel fan here) of a whole Science unit for my kids ! (thanks Ray)
 
I think I have the genesis (pardon the pun / big Gabriel fan here) of a whole Science unit for my kids ! (thanks Ray)

Following your theme. :)

"Don't give up
'Cause you have friends
Don't give up
You're not beaten yet
Don't give up
I know you can make it good"
 
I loaded some of my personal recordings onto the internets yesterday, and was confronted with a waveform of the home-recordings when I did so. It appears I brick-walled the **** out of my own stuff, before I even knew what compression really was (these recordings were 10 years old). So now I'm part of the problem, and the solution. Its enough to drive one mad, really. It sounded better at the time....
 
I also meant to state earlier that I applaud your effort at educating the youngins. Playing various versions (youtube vs. mp3 vs. uncompressed) and telling them what to listen for is much more difficult than simply dismissing the entire generation. I would bet that with a bit more time they'd be able to distinguish the differences. Whether the differences were enough for them to change their listening/purchasing habits is an entirely different discussion.

I used to just be content with my iPod, around the age of 13 that is. Then I started playing music through my dad's system, then CDs, then I finally graduated to vinyl. People my age, and younger. And possibly older too, just need to give it a chance, I can guarantee 8/10 people would choose a good stereo over their iPod, once they hear a good stereo system.

I prefer analog recordings compared to any digital recordings/systems because quite simply, it is more true to the recording and doesn't have crap loads of effects to it. Vinyl is more dynamic than CDs and iPods/YouTube. This may be a placebo effect, but all of that is just my two cents.
 
It's way too easy for everyone over 30 to wring their hands, rend their garments and moan about the "young people" and how nothing is as good as it used to be. I'm a few months shy of 70 and I refuse to do that. Regarding music and musical tastes, I can say with some conviction that there is more good music being made and recorded today than ever before. Jazz, alt rock, prog rock, world music, metal, whatever -- there is tons of it out there. You just have to get past the mainstream media hype and major labels and actively look for it. And while rap is not my most favourite type of music, some of it is very clever and musically sophisticated. It's no
 
I prefer analog recordings compared to any digital recordings/systems because quite simply, it is more true to the recording and doesn't have crap loads of effects to it. Vinyl is more dynamic than CDs and iPods/YouTube. This may be a placebo effect, but all of that is just my two cents.

Quite simply, it isn't that simple. It all depends on the system, not the medium. Talk to JohnVF (I'm sure he'll chime in here) about it. He was a confirmed vinylphile. All analog, all the time. Then he stepped up his digital playback system to match his analog. Last I heard, he was spinning more polycarbonate than vinyl.

"Crap loads of effects" are in the music, not the medium. There are plenty of records out there with crap loads of effects.

My guess is that if you follow your own advice (or an extension thereof) and listen to a really good digital playback system you'll be surprised at how "true to the recording" it can be.
 
It's way too easy for everyone over 30 to wring their hands, rend their garments and moan about the "young people" and how nothing is as good as it used to be. I'm a few months shy of 70 and I refuse to do that. Regarding music and musical tastes, I can say with some conviction that there is more good music being made and recorded today than ever before. Jazz, alt rock, prog rock, world music, metal, whatever -- there is tons of it out there. You just have to get past the mainstream media hype and major labels and actively look for it. And while rap is not my most favourite type of music, some of it is very clever and musically sophisticated. It's no

Bingo. I don't rag on other genres of music because to every man his own opinion. I just don't like rap or hip-hop because it's not my style, that doens't mean it's awful, because it's just to my ears. It's the same with metal, I personally can't stand the stuff, but my friend only likes metal. So I try not to argue about it, because there is no point. He likes stuff that "punches you in the face", while I like the opposite. I like nearly every genre there is (excluding rap, metal, "debstep", techno..etc). And at least I gave other genres a chance. I used to hate country, jazz and classical. Now I like a few country artists, and can't get enough of jazz or classical. One of the many good things about YouTube is that it gives people to expand their music tastes. I can't count how many bands I have discovered trough YouTube and especially Pandora Radio. It doesn't matter how one discovers music, but how one enjoys it.

I don't limit myself to one time period either. It just happens that my favorite artists are from the 60s and 70s. There are a few bands around that still rock. Them Crooked Vultures and Queens Of The Stone Age are great in my opinion. Tool is decent. Red Hot Chilli Peppers come out with a good song every so often...and on and on.
 
I punched in my previous post prematurely (hit the wrong key, I guess), so here's the complete, unexpurgated edition...

I agree that there's no percentage in bashing the young and their lack of discernment (musically and sonically). Everyone is a work in progress (or should be) and that's especially true of people in their teens and early twenties. Whenever I think about my general lack of awareness (and smugness) when I was in high school, I still cringe.

Music and delivery systems are really two entirely different topics. And even though I'm a few months shy of 70, I roll my eyes (like a teenager) when I see or hear someone comment that "there's no good music today." Not true at all. You name it -- jazz, prog rock, metal, folk, world music, alt rock, country -- there are TONS of creative artists out there, making exciting music. You just have to get past mainstream media and major label hype and make the effort to locate them. As for rap, it's not one of my favourite genres, but I have a small rap library and yes, there ARE smart, sophisticated rappers who are worth listening to, once you get past the gansta, thug, bling and ho stuff. It's ironic, I think, that some of the people who condemn youth for being indifferent to quality sound are also taking the lazy way out and not making the effort to track down good contemporary music.

Actually, if I could point to any real villain, I'd have to finger (in more ways than one) contemporary consumer capitalism. Plastic but photogenic singers and artists are endlessly hyped, while those not as suited for the media spotlight are conveniently ignored. And believe me, it has very little to do with talent. Consumer electronics also hype fads (surround sound) and convenience (youtube, poor quality digital files) at the expense of quality. It takes some work (and time) to fight through all the crap, find good music and cultivate an appreciation for superior sound. And frankly, it's not important enough to many (most?) people that they are willing to make the effort.

On that note (ha ha), I'd like reinforce the comment made by the person who was defending contemporary car audio systems. Yes, they can be annoying from the outside, and yes, some people play crap on them (surprise, surprise), but even though I don't get invited into many cars by young people to audition their stereo systems (I wonder why?), I have heard some absolutely marvellous car systems. I've also owned a couple of iPods and with quality downloads and good headphones, they sound pretty darn nice to me. So it could be, at least partly, that the "home stereo" has taken a back seat, so to speak, to car stereos and portable devices. And a lot of younger people don't spend a lot of time at home anyway.

And if you'll allow me a final (and related) rant, I wonder how someone would find and put together a good "home stereo system" these days even if they had the notion to do so. You go into a Future Shop, or a Best Buy or a Costco and all you see are these elaborate but garbage surround sound systems. Even if you bought one of these and went to the effort of setting it up, there's no guarantee that you'd get decent sound. I've had a couple of receivers from these systems given to me and when I tested them, they were not only obnoxiously complicated and glitchy, but they sounded horrible. So if you just wanted to get a simple, high quality system, for a modest price (remember, we're talking about young people and limited incomes here), where would you go? It's easy for us to haunt the thrift shops and scour the classifieds, because we know what to look for. Not so easy, though, for someone who doesn't have that background.

End of rant...
 
So if you just wanted to get a simple, high quality system, for a modest price (remember, we're talking about young people and limited incomes here), where would you go?

The internet.

Beyond that, a dedicated Hi Fi store if you have one in the area. You don't go to Walmart to buy a nice suit, so don't go to Best Buy to buy a nice stereo.
 
Rant on brother Rowrbazzle.

I mostly agree with everything you say, though I do find it a bit easier to put together a nice system over the internet, but it does require some experience. Sites like this make experience easy because you can connect with locals with various types of DIY, vintage and modern systems. It just takes a little desire to want to get the experience.
 
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